rjb wrote:




Well, last time I smoked DMT there were these extremely technologically advanced beings that were so highly advanced in fact that they demonstrated quite clearly to me that they had actually created the very multi-verse that I exist in.

These multi-million year old creator beings seemed to have the whole science and mysticism thing pretty well handled from the looks of what they showed me.

-But since it's all just a mere product of my hyperactive imagination I suppose it doesn't really matter to anyone but myself.

Until I build my own spaceship and prove the whole world wrong!!
- hahahaha! aha! AAAhahahahaha! <mad scientist laugh.

(note: the author of this post has no actual intention of building a space ship due to lack of funding and patients... )

Astrology is silly, period, it doesn't make any sense. For instance;



I mean, what the blip?

Edit; but sure, if you wish to look at it from a psychological, societal perspective, and the impact it has on people and society, then it is certainly necessary and useful to look into it. The belief systems themselves, however, are for the most part silly and nonsensical.

But yeah, we are in agreement I guess, but I just don't quite get where you're going, sorry

Does the theory of inter-connectivity make no sense as well then? Because I personally feel like inter-connectedness is what makes astrology Valid.

Of course we are connected to the cosmos, but it doesn't follow that you can read in the sky whether or not you will get laid next week.

citta wrote:




true...And I'm not saying that the weekly world news daily horoscope is accurate but don't you think at least the local cosmos could have some degree of predictable impact on earths inhabitants that could have been charted and observed over vast amounts of time by ancient civilizations....?

What kind of predictable impact? Strange you mention predictable, because there has been no conclusive predictions made by astrology.

about astrology.

I must say I was never a fan of astrology, until I looked at it seriously about a month ago.

I have tried for 10 real close persons in my life, their sign fits themselves perfectly.

I now believe in astrology. I dont believe in signs, but I beleive that indeed, the month we are born will affect us in a certain way. I believe that the sign is scam, but theres something behind all this.

I mean, for all the 10 persons, each time, their astrology sign was right on!

its not scientific but it was enough for me to make me beleive a little.

this

Here, Think about it this way.... If you put out an article making a prediction like this:
"Next week, something amazing will happen in your life. You will run into great fortune, find love in unfamiliar places and see something you have always wanted to see." Now look at this closely... It may seem very general and it is. It is just general enough to be spot on specific. A curious person buys the Sunday paper and reads his horoscope. Let's say he happens to be a Pisces. His birthday falls upon February 20th. He's been pretty down on his luck and is considerably desperate. Feeling his life is out of control, he gussies up some courage and reads the aforementioned prophetic piece of advice. Absorbing this information has left him discouraged and disbelieving. Since he is in such a slump and not to mention vulnerable, the information is subconsciously stored. The next week his girlfriend from a few months back decides he should have another shot. Well the first thing that comes to mind was the "fortune" he had just read. So his faith is strengthened. He gets a considerable boost of confidence and bustles on every Sunday to buy his paper. Now with this new-found vigor he exclaims to his friends that there is something about this whole astrology thing. There's something about this whole Idea that the position of the planets in the moment of your birth, cosmically affects the remainder of your life. He explains this concept with such vigor and whimsical reprise that all around him are affected by his infectious confidence. A mob-Mentality to put it an other way.
So this one individual that has stumbled into a sheer moment of blind and dumb luck that his girlfriend decides he's an all-right guy after all, instantly attributes it to the very moment he let down his "shield of reason." The time he made himself vulnerable to such a farfetched idea as Astrology. (Through confidence he shared his tale and the history of Astrology or the record of such circumstance happening in the past, yields fruitful evidence to stir the pot of cultural acceptance till it reaches the apex of it's life in our culture and becomes an organized religion.)
All this to say, Astrology is as viral an idea as religion or you tube videos. But reason suggests otherwise. (IMO)

Now that's a theory! It subtly coincides with the theory of epi-genetic information. But that very coincidence that what I had just made up, out of thin air mind you, directly and excitedly relates to you is exactly what I was trying to say.

Aye, I got ya. With the whole science vs. mysticism thing, there's a time and place for everything. I like experimenting with "romanticized" views of the beyond but consistently maintain a rational view of what I perceive as reality. Whether or not there is truly something "behind the curtain" in reality actually doesn't make a difference upon the outcome of events proceeding from the point of stimulus. Stepping in front of a car at noon creates an effluent string of events, changing innumerable variables all at once and simultaneously. So consequently the more you look into something the more you find it to "fit your needs." If one wishes to truly maintain an open-mind one must never believe in anything.

there are two sides to the street. you obviously don't want to have the mind so open that your brain falls out, and likewise, you wouldn't want to be so steadfast in a belief system that you're basically a zealot. beliefs are acceptable, but it would be more sensible to allow them to change with social dynamics

The title seems a little contradicting to me: science vs mysticism?

What I feel at the moment is that science is what we ''know'' to be true, and mysticism what we believe could be true. When mysticism is revealed isn't it a part of science? May not be very clear but I hope you get what I mean.

Also, I only know Terrence Mckenna from the people you mentioned, and I like his ideas.

I personally do believe we are collective-conscience/collective-consciousness.
This is because if I ask you to point at yourself, you wouldn't be able to would you?
Not your chest or your head, but YOU. Or even the person next to you.
I think me/you is just a label we create because ''we'' experience each other simultaneously.
Atoms are 99.999% empty space, concluding that solid objects only appear solid. Everything we see is an illusion. What we know to be ''real'' is only what we perceive with our five senses.

You can look at each cell individually in ''your'' body and give each one a name, because each one of them works individually. Or do they? Now lets zoom out to view ''your'' whole body. No more trillions of named cells, now it's only one individual body, call it John or whatever.
Now zoom out a little more, and there are 6+ billion of individual bodies, and each one of them is a separate individual and working solo. Or are we?
Now zoom out to the solar system. Yes. Same thing. Planet, zoom out, planets, zoom out, milky way, zoom out, galaxy, then galaxies etc.

If replace each one of the cells from your body to my body, one by one, at what point do I become YOU or vise versa?

I truly believe all separation ''we'' create between ''ourselves'' is an illusion.
Or in better terms: The idea of separation is an illusion.

Peace

Science, the man, and Mysticism, the woman, need to stop fighting and just bone already and have some babies.

Too bad they make such a bad fit :/

From your point of view. They match perfectly from mine.

Then I wonder if we are talking about the same kind of mysticism/science, because they don't match perfectly. I wrote about why on the first page, Korey did too, and it's really not difficult to see.

However, if you by mysticism mean that the Universe is a mystery, that it is profound we are here, that there are riddles - sure, science and mysticism fucks like a charm. If you by mysticism strictly mean the mental experience absent of any formation of concepts about the world on the basis of them, then science and mysticism don't conflict, sure (though they still don't match). If you by mysticism mean notions of transcendence, a world beyond matter, accessing the fundamental reality from which all else emerge, that consciousness begets matter and so on and so forth, it is incompatible with what science infers from its data and thus they don't match.

Perhaps you can explain why mysticism and science go hand in hand?

Science doesn’t infer anything from its data – scientists may or may not make inferences upon examining data.

Regardless, how is the belief that consciousness begets material existence incompatible with science? You seem to hold very tightly to an alternate belief – the belief that matter begets consciousness – yet there is no evidence for this either.

In fact, there is no scientific experiment that can “prove” material existence exists independently of consciousness. After all, to devise such an experiment, to observe its results, and to interpret its results all require consciousness!

There is no experiment one can perform to prove that one is not “dreaming”.

here we go again,

you 2 love this dont ya