As you all probably know many churches have popped up making one of Shulgin's Chems their sacrament. What are your views on this? Do you think there's a relationship between synthetic chems and mystical experiemces, that is genuine?

DPT is used as a religious sacrament by the Temple of the True Inner Light, a New York City offshoot of the Native American Church. The Temple believes DPT and other entheogens are physical manifestations of God

There's an interesting article (that I unfortunately am having trouble locating) that talks about how psilocybin activates the same part of the brain as monks who are meditating. Can't speak to synthetics, but I imagine it's similar.

what do mean by can't speak to synthetics? No real spirit to the chems?

South african healers prefered 2CB over their traditional entheogens, there's some publication out there regarding it.

I think all sorts of substances, natural or synthetic, can precipitate experiences that make us question our place in the world, that make us reflect about existance, and therefore can be used "spiritually". Anyways the distinction between natural vs synthetic is a bit of a questionable one since you never know if a substance is or not found in an undiscovered plant. DMT was first synthesized before it was ever found to be a natural substance.

I think each one has to find out for themselves whether they can use substance X or Y in a constructive beneficial way, whether that is for fun, problem-solving, therapeutically, spiritually or whatever else.

Are there other churches that use synthetic tryptamines as sacraments? I've only heard of the True Inner Light one.

Does alex grey's COSM use LSD as their Sacrament? not sure about this???

I think endlessness is right who knows for sure if "synthetic chems" do not occur somewhere in some natural form on this planet.

[quote=endlessness]South african healers prefered 2CB over their traditional entheogens, there's some publication out there regarding it.quote]

Very Interesting!!!!

Whether synthetic or natural, these chemicals are catalysts in my eyes...nothing more. Picking some mushrooms, smoking dmt, taking ayahuasca, taking some ketamine or various 2c's or what-have-you all are valid paths in my opinion to bring about these various altered states. The question of being a "genuine" experience with one that's synthesized vs. straight from a plant source is out the window.

Used in the right context with the right intentions, nearly any of these said chemicals whether synthesized in a lab or picked straight from the earth can facilitate a transcendental experience.

Now side effects may vary between all these, but that's something entirely different altogether.

From my own personal experiences with 2ci and 2cb, they worked in a similar way to offer me entrance into the spirit world as say mescaline or mushrooms would have.

I just kind of feel like the comedown is a bit rough on 2ci compared to natural substances or even LSD, but still not as drastic a comedown as what MDMA does to me in my opinion.

good point tatty it's not what opens the door it's the fact that it's open and new spaces can be explored. The how really isn't important, now that your in a new space what are you going to do with your time there.

if DMT only grew in plants from other planets, and on earth we had never had it, and some scientists just now synthesized it, would you consider it any less of a tryptamine than the ones that grow naturally on this orb?

Firstly i think it's important to remember that Shulgen in many cases simply made adjustments to the Molecular structure of Mescaline, DMT, and naturally occuring drugs etc, to create a plethora of new compounds.

Most drugs come from plant sources or are modified from them in a lab. Who knows what actions the body has in processing some of them. I think Synthetic substances can be used in a ceremony with a shaman to similar degree to other entheogens, but i would not expect them to go as deep as Ayahuasca or Iboga. Maybe 2cb is used cos it's easier to work with for simple fix it's. I doubt it has a patch on Aya or Iboga though.

People tripping balls tend to sometime have mystical experiences, and tripping balls you can do with synthetic droggz

Yeah. LOL

Does anyone know what Shulgin thought about his creations being used as Sacraments?

& Is LSD the sacrament of COSM?

What a is a genuine mystical experience?

One man's mystical experience can be another man's mundane drug experience. So sure, if drugs like DMT and psilocybin are frequently used as religious sacraments, I don't see why LSD or 2C-B couldn't be used "legitimately" in that realm of entheogen use.

My experience with most synthetic psychedelics (i've tried over a dozen) is that while productive and worthwhile, they fall short of the organic entheogens.





...except for Miprocin

I agree totally I just like to get other peoples opinions on subjects like this one. Some hardcore naturalists would discredit a synthetic drug experience on the claim that since it isn't known to be found in nature then it's not genuine, or authentic or truly mystical.
I have friends who won't eat LSD because it's a chemical, then I see them snorting coke a month later. Or won't take 4-acetoxy-DET because it's a chemical but they eat E pills they bought off some kid in Brooklyn.

I also sometimes question whether we created god or god created us. If we created god Is god synthetic. I just don't bother chasing my tale anymore. A good experience is a good experience no matter what the catalyst for it was.

Seems there's always an exception, oh well.
I do agree with you blue lunar light, but it seems like agreeing is a crime or something

Synthetic drugs are just as natural as drugs taken from plants or other sources.

Everything in the material world is natural, we cannot make anything from nothing.