I think this is one of the best theory's out there. With a foundation thats easy for people to get behind, and understand. I've been doing alot of research about this, I agree that were not 100% sure. But I think the Pineal thing is plausible. But to debate weather or not, its true or false, isnt the right idea, I think if we should prove the validity of the Pineal glad theory, I think it would be very beneficial to the whole realm of psychedelics. Now if it turns out that the Pineal gland, is a no-go, then we move on from there. To easy!

As for the entities, some say, its your brain that creates those, others say there intelligent otherworldly beings. I dont know how to test that at this point. But perhaps y'all have some idea's... There must be some way to, "test" the entities, to figure out if there caused by our mind or not. I don't know what that will be, but im sure we can brains together to come up with something.

Now if we can do this, and log it. Then we'll all have a better idea on how DMT works! A sold base or foundation is the goal. The guys who do the show The Universe seams to think parallel universes are plausible...and one of those could be the place were DMT users go to

So in conclusion, I think we need to look at all the data we have, starting with Ancient Humans to quantum mechanics and piece things together. So next time if some ones asking me about DMT I can confidently say "DMT is.....blank"

I find this somewhat akin to adamantly adhering to the fact that the pyramids at giza were tombs for pharaohs despite the fact that not one mummy has ever been found in them. It's a nice story that is easy to understand and get behind, but it's doubtful. Now I'm not saying that the pineal does or doesn't make DMT, but I am trying to highlight this flaw I see in your argument. It can be tempting to grow attached to ideas, but sometimes you gotta know when to put them back on the shelf. It should be noted that Strassman was speculating in his book, and he even admits now that it's probably more complicated than he made it out to be in the Spirit Molecule. Perhaps you should, if for only a day perhaps, pretend that the pineal doesn't produce DMT. Reflect on thoughts you have about the process under the assumption that the pineal doesn't produce DMT, if for nothing else but sheer curiosity.



I'm not sure what a reliable way would be to go about testing these entities (they often don't respond to me despite my attempts at communication no matter what the topic). However I have had two experiences that I've written up that would suggest to me that being a pure product of brain chemistry seems reasonably doubtful.

Symbolic Egyptian Solstice Experience

Eerie Integration

I just read your links, its very interesting, what prompted your experience with the Ancient Egyptian theme? Im extremely fasinated with Old Egypt. Its one time, I wish I can travel to.

For some reason I thought that endogenous DMT was produced in the lungs. Why does everyone want it to be produced in the pineal gland?

Two things I'd like to add to Global's post. First, even though I would say I stand behind the pineal gland theory, I really agree with what he says here. It's very important to step outside what we WANT to be true and what actually is. Almost all great discoveries come as shocks, so entering into an experiment hoping for a certain outcome is not a great way to do science. However, like I did say, I do think the theory holds merit but I would have no idea how to produce a test that would satisfy scientific criteria.

As for the entities, I really feel like it's gotta be both. They ARE intelligent otherworldly beings, and the 'other world' they exist in is your mind. Maybe I'm absolutely mad, but that is the easiest explanation for me to accept. Plato said this ages ago when he talked about this world being only a shadow of the world of ideals. Is it impossible to comprehend that your thoughts could be real beings? All ego and arrogance aside, maybe human experience is not a primary existence. If thought-entities come before us and their medium of evolution is what we call our mind, and if we have no knowledge as humans that they are really there, wouldn't it be a logical conclusion to misinterpret these entities as being YOUR thoughts, as in you being the generator of them?

Everyone has heard the flatland analogy yeah? That a higher dimensional being trying to communicate with a lower dimensional creature would hear that communication as coming from within its own self. Think about that. Talk to a flat piece of paper right now, and if its ears were on the side of it then it would 'hear' you from inside itself since your projecting down a dimension.

[quote=Mister_Niles] For some reason I thought that endogenous DMT was produced in the lungs. Why does everyone want it to be produced in the pineal gland?[/quote

Thats a very good question, If im not mistaken, didnt scientist validate the Lung as the location in Rats/mice as well?

@tek- I agree with your statement, very well put

I think as far as entities are concerned its a matter of communication or lack thereof.

I believe our human languages are basically useless when trying to communicate with any kind of extra dimensional entity.

Experimenting with new ways of expressing ideas and intentions within our minds could be a start.

well judging by what this thread has to say, we still don't know where it is produced, but the evidence pointing to the pineal is somewhat promising.

as far as wanting it to be in the pineal, it would seem to validate a lot of esoteric beliefs.

and as far as what evidence we need to validate the pineal gland theory, i think benzyme or one of the other more scientifically literate folk here can fill us in on that.

but if you want you can volunteer to have your living brain operated on to see if it produces dmt



also terence mckenna used to ask the mushroom (cubensis) "what can you tell me that i cannot possibly know?"

I don't like the concept of getting behind a theory without proper backing or real evidence. It's silly to pretend something is right while searching for evidence to confirm that. Sure it's easy to grasp but it's unproven and as long as it's unproven we shouldn't claim it's produced in the pineal gland.

However, there are other people who wonder the same thing(including me). The author of this blog entry actually attempted to work out with the DMT trip was pre-determined or can be altered during the trip. He also asked questions about the intelligence of entities and proposed methods of testing them.

Check out his blog, they're interesting reads.

http://www.emedicineheal...mors/article_em.htm#tocb

Patients who have had their glands removed due to tumors still remain much alive.

Personally I feel DMT is unnatural to the human body for reasons I can not explain.

As far as the entities are concerned I honestly feel we are communicating with intelligences beyond our limited understanding, for reasons I can not explain my fellow guinea pigs.

something found in virtually all living organisms, including the primates we evolved from and ourselves is unnatural to the human body?

only if you have a very skewed definition of the word "nature"

also you do realize you ingest much more unnatural chemicals daily, right?

Not trying to be rude, however you need to prove your statements with reliable evidence to reinforce your beliefs. Show me this evidence which you speak so firmly from.

wiki is far from reliable, need actual evidence which suggest humans produce trace amounts of dmt

Scudge seems you're a bit out of touch with this ? It's a proven fact that DMT is a part of normal human metabolism.

Here are some sources mentioned:

https://wiki.dmt-nexus.m...Humans_and_other_animals

What is NOT proven at all, as our FAQ says, is that pineal produces DMT (since the expression of INMT was not found in the pineal or elsewhere in the brain, but only in the lungs or other parts of the body. Its even more speculation that it's related to dreams, meditation, near death experience and what not. But this is goign to be directly researched in the (near?) future, so if there's any evidence, that's the best bet we have to finding it out :

http://www.cottonwoodresearch.org/projects.php

(scroll down to 'Endogenous Hallucinogen Assay Advances)

I'm sorry, Wiki is not a reliable source of evidence, however I'll check out your link. Not trying to offend anyone

This is not wikipedia and unreferenced information we're talking about, this is our own wiki, it's a reliable collection of information gathered from scientific publications, they are all referenced from peer reviewed journals. Click the link before criticizing

For mine, we haven't the foggiest really as to how the brain works. We have no idea how basic thought works, let alone a concept of self, let alone dissolution of self. What we know is akin to what a handyman could learn about Windows 7 by probing a computer with a multimeter.

He might well propose that the blue screen of death is caused by an alternating current of a certain frequency and voltage ... at best he might have hit the tip of the iceberg of the real reason why ... at worst he might be completely on the wrong track.

A multimeter is not a useless tool for a computer technician, but when using it, one should be aware of its limitations.

Oh the irony

That we don't know much (yet) about a certain aspect does not mean you have to ridicule the research for it.

Because of our current lack of understanding we have to build on theories and we have to be creative and critical at the same time. Some things give a very good pointer as to where to search, while others theories are quickly found to be false.

Please stay respectful.


Kind regards,

The Traveler