Stiletto Stoner
Posts: 1132 Joined: 18-Nov-2008 Last visit: 15-Mar-2015 Location: Blazin'
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AP wrote: Uruguay is planning a novel approach to fighting its rising crime: having its government sell marijuana to take drug profits out of the hands of dealers.
Under the plan backed by President Josee Mujica’s leftist administration, only the government would be allowed to sell marijuana and only to adults who register on a government database, letting officials keep track of their purchases over time.
Profits would reportedly go toward rehabilitating drug addicts.
"It’s a fight on both fronts: against consumption and drug trafficking. We think the prohibition of some drugs is creating more problems to society than the drug itself," Defense Minister Eleuterio Fernandez Huidobro told reporters late on Wednesday.
Fernandez said the bill would soon be sent to Congress, which is dominated by Mujica’s party, but that an exact date had not been set. If approved, Uruguay’s national government would be the first in the world to directly sell marijuana to its citizens. Some local governments do so.
The proposed measure elicited responses ranging from support to criticism to humour.
"People who consume are not going to buy it from the state," said Natalia Pereira, 28, adding that she smokes marijuana occasionally. "There is going to be mistrust buying it from a place where you have to register and they can typecast you."
Media reports have said that people who use more than a limited number of marijuana cigarettes would have to undergo drug rehabilitation.
"I can now imagine you going down to the kiosk to buy bread, milk and a little box of marijuana!" one person in Uruguay’s capital, Montevideo, wrote on their Twitter account.
Behind the move is a series of recent gang shoot-outs and rising cocaine seizures have raised security concerns in one of Latin America’s safest countries and taken a toll on Mujiica’s already dipping popularity.
The Interior Ministry says from January to May, the number of homicides jumped to 133 from 76 in the same period last year.
The crime figures are small compared to its neighbours Argentina and Brazil but huge for this tiny South American country where many still take pride in its safety leaving their doors open and gathering in the streets late at night to sip on traditional mate tea.
To combat rising criminality, the government also announced a series of measures that include compensation for victims of violent crime and longer jail terms for traffickers of crack-like drugs.
The idea behind the marijuana proposal is to weaken crime by removing profits from drug dealers and diverting users from harder drugs, according to government officials.
"The main argument for this is to keep addicts from dealing and reaching substances" like base paste, a crack cocaine-like drug smoked in South America, said Juan Carlos Redin a psychologist who works with drug addicts in Montevideo.
Redin said that Uruguayans should be allowed to grow their own marijuana because the government would run into trouble if it tries to sell it. The big question he said will be, "Who will provide the government (with marijuana)?"
During the press conference, the defense minister said Uruguayan farmers would plant the marijuana but said more details would come soon.
"The laws of the market will rule here: whoever sells the best and the cheapest will end with drug trafficking," Fernandez said. "We’ll have to regulate farm production so there’s no contraband and regulate distribution ... we must make sure we don’t affect neighbouring countries or be accused of being an international drug production centre."
There are no laws against marijuana use in Uruguay. Possession of marijuana for personal use has never been criminalised in the country and a 1974 law gives judges discretion to determine if the amount of marijuana found on a suspect is for legal personal use or for illegal dealing.
Liberal think tanks and drug liberalisation activists hailed the planned measure.
"If they actually sell it themselves, and you have to go to the Uruguay government store to buy marijuana, then that would be a precedent for sure, but not so different than from the dispensaries in half the United States," said Allen St. Pierre, executive director of US-based National Organisation for the Reform.
St. Pierre said the move would make Uruguay the only national government in the world selling marijuana. Numerous dispensaries on the local level in the US are allowed to sell marijuana for medical use.
Some drug rehabilitation experts disagreed with the planned bill altogether. Guillermo Castro, head of psychiatry at the Hospital Britanico in Montevideo says marijuana is a gateway to stronger drugs.
"In the long-run, marijuana is still poison," Castro said adding that marijuana contains 17 times more carcinogens than those in tobacco and that its use is linked to higher rates of depression and suicide.
"If it’s going to be openly legalised, something that is now in the hands of politics, it’s important that they explain to people what it is and what it produces," he said.
Overburdened by clogged prisons, some Latin American countries have relaxed penalties for drug possession and personal use and distanced themselves from the tough stance pushed by the United States four decades ago when the Richard Nixon administration declared the war on drugs.
"There’s a real human drama where people get swept up in draconian drug laws intended to put major drug traffickers behind bars, but because the way they are implemented in Latin America, they end up putting many marijuana consumers behind bars," said Coletta Youngers, a senior fellow at the Washington Office on Latin America think tank.
"There’s a growing recognition in the region that marijuana needs to be treated differently than other drugs, because it’s a clear case that the drug laws have a greater negative impact than the use of the drug itself," Youngers said. "If Uruguay moved in this direction they would be challenging the international drug control system."
http://www.encod.org/inf...MENT-ANNOUNCES-PLAN.htmlhttp://www.talkradionews...ational-conventions.htmlTheir system in a nutshell: Uruguayan adult would go to a consumer pot registry and, once enlisted, be entitled every month to buy up to 40 joints/30 grams. Potential problems: - Personal growing ? Got GVG ? Mhm. Got DMT ? Pandora wrote:Nexus enjoys cutting edge and ongoing superior programming skills of the owner of this site (The Traveler), including recent switching to the .me domain name. I'm still, I'm still Jenny from the block Simon Jester wrote:"WTF n00b, buy the $100 vapor pipe or GTFO" Ignorance of the law does not protect you from prosecution
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 12340 Joined: 12-Nov-2008 Last visit: 02-Apr-2023 Location: pacific
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pfff, what a joke. Sounds like a weird way to monitor people..it's not like your buying a gun. Who wants to register in some database just so they can smoke a joint? Long live the unwoke.
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Stiletto Stoner
Posts: 1132 Joined: 18-Nov-2008 Last visit: 15-Mar-2015 Location: Blazin'
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Every medical patient ? I don't think this is something new. Libraries require registration too. http://www.mahalo.com/ho...-medical-marijuana-card/Got GVG ? Mhm. Got DMT ? Pandora wrote:Nexus enjoys cutting edge and ongoing superior programming skills of the owner of this site (The Traveler), including recent switching to the .me domain name. I'm still, I'm still Jenny from the block Simon Jester wrote:"WTF n00b, buy the $100 vapor pipe or GTFO" Ignorance of the law does not protect you from prosecution
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 12340 Joined: 12-Nov-2008 Last visit: 02-Apr-2023 Location: pacific
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We are not talking about medical patients. Noone registers anywhere to buy a case of beer or a pack of cigarettes. Why should this be any different. ID to prove your age should be all anyone needs. Long live the unwoke.
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Stiletto Stoner
Posts: 1132 Joined: 18-Nov-2008 Last visit: 15-Mar-2015 Location: Blazin'
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jamie wrote:We are not talking about medical patients. Noone registers anywhere to buy a case of beer or a pack of cigarettes. Why should this be any different. ID to prove your age should be all anyone needs. Registry is used to control the 30g limit. I agree that in ideal circumstances ID would be enough but this system is way better than decriminalization which is WAY better than criminalization. Baby steps. Got GVG ? Mhm. Got DMT ? Pandora wrote:Nexus enjoys cutting edge and ongoing superior programming skills of the owner of this site (The Traveler), including recent switching to the .me domain name. I'm still, I'm still Jenny from the block Simon Jester wrote:"WTF n00b, buy the $100 vapor pipe or GTFO" Ignorance of the law does not protect you from prosecution
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 14191 Joined: 19-Feb-2008 Last visit: 15-Nov-2024 Location: Jungle
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Why is it a joke, jamie? maybe its not the perfect solution but come on, its first time in the world since prohibition started that the government is gonna be selling to people, dont you htin thats something to celebrate, instead of to scorn? Or you think it should be "all or nothing" ?
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Explorer
Posts: 2688 Joined: 04-Dec-2010 Last visit: 25-Oct-2016 Location: space
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What problems would arise if the government knows you smoke pot? I doubt there would many or any problems from it. I like this new approach, it's definately a win. These kind of new rules could help fight the drug war caused by war on drugs.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 12340 Joined: 12-Nov-2008 Last visit: 02-Apr-2023 Location: pacific
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I guess I do feel like it should be all or nothing. I dont want to buy cannabis. I wont buy cannabis, from the government or elsewhere. If you cant grow it at home than something is wrong with the picture. I dont like the idea of being catalogued away in some government database in order to smoke a little plant material. Maybe I am paranoid, maybe I just put a high value on true freedom..maybe both, I dunno. This might be a step foreward when it comes to medical patients who are not knowledgeable about this stuff and cant get it any other way..but lets face it, most people just smoke cannabis because the like to get high. Why should I have to register in some database as if I am a patient taking prescription meds just so I can smoke a joint? You should never have to go about this sort of thing in this way. I also dont like the fact that governments have been so corrupt, ruining peoples lives for even posessing this stuff and now because they say so they are going to allow us to have it, but only if we buy it from them? At least in this case they claim that money is going to go back into drug rehabilitation..so that is one good thing I guess, depending on what their definition of "rehabilitation" is..It also wonder if big pharma companies have some role in all of this, and if all of the money is going towards drug rehab or just some small unsaid portion.. Yes I am skeptical..and when it comes to governments and the decisions they make when it comes to something like this, I am cynical. I cant help feeling this way. I dont trust these people. Long live the unwoke.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 12340 Joined: 12-Nov-2008 Last visit: 02-Apr-2023 Location: pacific
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"These kind of new rules could help fight the drug war caused by war on drugs." So can full legalization for anyone with ID to prove age. These sort of rules often still allow at home personal growers to be prosecuted etc..it does not necessarily end the war on drugs..it might change it a bit though. Long live the unwoke.
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Explorer
Posts: 2688 Joined: 04-Dec-2010 Last visit: 25-Oct-2016 Location: space
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jamie wrote:"These kind of new rules could help fight the drug war caused by war on drugs."
So can full legalization for anyone with ID to prove age. These sort of rules often still allow at home personal growers to be prosecuted etc..it does not necessarily end the war on drugs..it might change it a bit though. All I'm saying this is a positive step. I doubt there will be quick and complete legalization.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1055 Joined: 21-Nov-2011 Last visit: 15-Oct-2021
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I hope this little experiment works out. If it does, it could mean great things for the eventual legalization of marijuana worldwide. Every day I am thankful that I was introduced to psychedelic drugs.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 3135 Joined: 27-Mar-2012 Last visit: 10-Apr-2023
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Sure a lot better then the direction it could be going. Like full criminalization and prosecution of any drug use forever. This slow progression towards legalization will ensure it stays that way. If tomorrow all drugs were legal for whatever and however, it would be chaos. The only reason slow progress is imperative is because we've been walking backwards about the whole thing for a long time. The whole medical marijuana movement is that progress for the U.S. Because of this more people have started changing there view on marijuana. and your not going to get full legalization unless enough people see the benefits. Which won't happen without proving that it isn't hurting anything by slowly allowing its use a little at a time. I love the idea of full legalization tomorrow for marijuana. But face it it's not gonna happen until we can shut all the idiots up that claim things like "marijuana contains 17 times more carcinogens than in tobacco". Which is BS. Marijuana itself does not contain any carcinogens, but they are produced when it undergoes combustion. But so does anything when it is burnt with fire. "Energy flows where attention goes" [Please review the forum Wiki and FAQ before posting questions]
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"No, seriously"
Posts: 7324 Joined: 18-Jan-2007 Last visit: 02-Nov-2024 Location: Orion Spur
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jamie wrote:pfff, what a joke. Sounds like a weird way to monitor people..it's not like your buying a gun. Who wants to register in some database just so they can smoke a joint?
I would not consider this a joke but one step in the right direction. With a good execution of this plan it might be possible to gain statistics about drug addicts and crime rates during the lifetime of this plan that might help our cause. If the trend is towards lower drug addicts and lower crimes than it this can be see as to allow further decriminalization, and not only in that specific country. The reason why they have to put people in a database is clear: With this new law, one person has a limited supply of weed per month, they have to keep track on that. Please understand that in politics things move slow and there are many parties of interest involved. What might sounds good to you might sound bad to another person. So my guess is that one of the compromises they had to make was a limited supply per person. Lets hope this will work out in our favor. Kind regards, The Traveler
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1104 Joined: 17-May-2009 Last visit: 18-Jul-2023
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I agree with the man that says Uruguayans should just be allowed to grow Marijuana themselves. That should also obliterate the incomes of drugdealing criminals, yet it wouldn't create a situation where registered Marijuana-users could be discriminated against. In the Southern provinces of the Netherlands they also entered this system; Only registered members with a special "weed-card" are allowed to buy cannabis from shops. 2 or 3 years ago only passport/ID-card identification(showing you're older than 1 was required to buy weed from a coffeeshop. Now they're working on getting that system instated in the rest of The Netherlands as well. They're pulling appart our liberal, intelligent drug policies overnight here. Which is why I consider migrating the hell away from here. Uruguay, Brazil & Portugal are the only countries that are heading towards a more sane drugpolicy so perhaps I should move to one of these countries. Every citizen should be allowed to grow their own Marijuana. In a world that strives for civil liberty, justice and order we can no longer allow Governments to parent us around. We're adult humans and we oughta be able to make personal choices, like which drugs we take and which we won't take. If you cannot even grow your own Cannabis plants in your garden, then any notion of Liberty, Justice and order is a worthless web of lies.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 197 Joined: 06-Feb-2012 Last visit: 22-Sep-2023
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SKA wrote:Now they're working on getting that system instated in the rest of The Netherlands as well. They're pulling appart our liberal, intelligent drug policies overnight here. Which is why I consider migrating the hell away from here. Uruguay, Brazil & Portugal are the only countries that are heading towards a more sane drugpolicy so perhaps I should move to one of these countries.
Every citizen should be allowed to grow their own Marijuana. In a world that strives for civil liberty, justice and order we can no longer allow Governments to parent us around. We're adult humans and we oughta be able to make personal choices, like which drugs we take and which we won't take.
If you cannot even grow your own Cannabis plants in your garden, then any notion of Liberty, Justice and order is a worthless web of lies. This ^^ The laws aren't the problem, the government is. When we're awaiting someone else's permission to do ANYTHING, we're acting as children or rather as slaves. Has any of you ever waited for government approval to smoke your weed or more importantly, grow it ? (or extract your own DMT, grow shrooms, etc.) Do you really think any law could change that ? To me, a legalization would be suicide... What's next, let Monsanto genetically modify weed ? No, let's keep the prohibition as it is, so at least people realize the whole situation is a scam and find their own autonomy.
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Life is Art is Life
Posts: 697 Joined: 11-Sep-2012 Last visit: 13-Apr-2016 Location: watching the wheels go round and round
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From a practical perspective 30 grams a month doesn't seem very realistic. I smoke far less than that, but I can see how many people could go over, especially if they smoke joints. Images of broken light, Which dance before me like a million eyes, They call me on and on...
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1711 Joined: 03-Oct-2011 Last visit: 20-Apr-2021
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From this link - In Uruguay, personal marijuana growing is added to government project. Quote:Uruguay.- The congress group of Frente Amplio decided to extend the law project regulating production and sale of marijuana, by including the decriminalization of growing. So, there you go. Uruguayans will be able to grow for personal use without breaking the law, and cannabis will be commercialized by the government for those who don't want to grow themselves or buy in the black market. And of course they have to limit the monthly purchases in a context where cannabis is internationally criminalized. I don't think that's their fault, and I cannot figure a realistic alternative considering the circumstances. Does anyone still have any "buts" regarding the Uruguay project? "The Menu is Not The Meal." - Alan Watts
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 197 Joined: 06-Feb-2012 Last visit: 22-Sep-2023
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Yes... If I make a living by growing weed, how do I fit in there ?
Still on the black market, or without a home...
As I said, no solutions in the law...
And as a smoker, I go through more than 100g a month, and I have friends who smoke 10g a day...
I view cannabis like I view other entheogens : no one has any right to get between me and my plants, or tell me what I can or cannot do with it, including growing it and giving it to friends for a fee (or as trade for the most autonomous ones)
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1711 Joined: 03-Oct-2011 Last visit: 20-Apr-2021
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Silly(c)One wrote:Yes... If I make a living by growing weed, how do I fit in there ?
Still on the black market, or without a home...
As I said, no solutions in the law...
And as a smoker, I go through more than 100g a month, and I have friends who smoke 10g a day... If you make a living by growing weed, in Uruguay you should work for the company that will provide the government, or for the government itself if that's the case. And I'm personally for decriminalization, period. But bashing an initiative like the uruguayan sounds ludicrous to me, because free wholesale of marijuana is NOT possible with a major international prohibition, particularly if you are a small country. "The Menu is Not The Meal." - Alan Watts
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 197 Joined: 06-Feb-2012 Last visit: 22-Sep-2023
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No way I could be enslaved by a company or the government, that's even worse than being illegal.
But I get your point and of course you're right, in the present situation, it's a commendable initiative for the common smoker.
*IF* and only if people don't have to be registered. Else it's fascism and will be used against the people for sure at a later time. Like they're trying to do in Holland.
Like jamie, I'll never trust anyone with any kind of power over me.
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