Ok, I'm gonna try to keep this short, I'm just a little stressed right now and I figured I might be able to get some of your opinions...

Last year I made the decision that I was going to pursue extracting dmt from mhrb.
In December, the order was placed and the mhrb showed up in the mail about a week later.
One of my best friends was the one who actually purchased the bark, and I was going to be extracting.
Between December and January I performed 2 very successful extractions using a stb tek.

When I finished my first extraction a few good friends came to my house to test it out with me (including the friend who purchased the bark)

We all tried it and enjoyed it, I believe there was 5 of us there that night and we all partook.
We each only smoked about 20-30mg to be safe since it was my first extraction and I really wasn't sure if it was legit product or not. (it was)

Needless to say but none of us had that profound of an experience given the low dose and not the best smoking method. But we all had decent "sub breakthrough" experiences. We decided that was enough for the night and that we would try some another time.

This story is about the friend who bought the bark, he has only tried dmt 2-3 times and with mild effects each time due to low dose and or improper technique. But he has always had an interest in the experience and learning/hearing about dmt.

It has been almost 8 months since I first extracted and I have had dozens of journeys, but my friend who purchased the bark still hasn't had a deep dmt journey. I try not to bring it up all the time but once in a while I remind him that he really should just take the plunge and see what all the fuss is about.

Lately he has been talking more about wanting to try a proper "breakthrough" dose. We both agreed that we would find a nice secluded outdoor place on a nice day and sit down and go for it...well it's been really nice out lately.

Today is particularly gorgeous out...I texted him today around lunch time to see what his plans were for after work...

Here is our conversation:

Me: do you have any plans yet for after work tonight?

Him: idk, why what's up?

Me: today just seems like a good day...

Him: ya

Me: I think it's time...let's just do it. Today.

Him: lol, maybe tonight

Me: why maybe? What would be the deciding factor for you?

Him: it's maybe because that's what I said, why do you feel it necessary to push me? I respect you and give you your independence. I never said no but I'm not saying yes incase things don't go in that direction later.

Me: I knew you'd get all defensive, you keep saying how you want the experience...I really don't know what you're waiting for.

Him: I'm not getting defensive in the least. You asked why man.

Him: I am curious, but I'm not obsessing over it. It's a bigger deal to you it seems. I just don't like someone getting excited and pushing me into something I want to do on my own man, that's all

Him: so that's why I said maybe.

Me: nevermind dude, I wouldn't have asked you if you didn't tell me recently that you wanted to. I just won't ask you anymore if you're gonna get all emotional about it.

Him: Evan, I'm not getting emotional or defensive, you asked me a question and I answered you. You're getting emotional calling me defensive and getting worked up.

Him: this is exactly why I wanted to chill about it. I don't need or want any tension man and you're creating it by doing this. I'm aware of what I said ok. I can think of a few things that you bring up frequently and aren't taking action about either. So let's not make this into something It doesn't need to be.

I haven't said anything back to him yet, I plan on waiting for him to talk to me first.
Does anybody have any input? I'm really not trying to push him, he's just making it seem like I am and using it as an excuse for not doing it.

Unless this conversation is happening twice a week, he seems to be the one overreacting and getting defensive.

I would say he is either too OCD about the experience, or he is afraid (and the first is often a symptom for the second). I've been there, in this continuous adjourning. I'm too tired, tomorrow there's work, I don't know if I am in the mood, I don't have time to get properly ready, I ate too much... BS most of the times. And BS = fear excuses.

So I don't know, if you think he is able to sort his own things out generally, give him time to think and realize about what is keeping him from moving on. If his need and curiosity are strong enough, he will overcome the fear.

I would only keep pressing if I really felt that he needs a deep experience badly. And that's a tough call to make from the outside.

^ +1 for what Vodsel says. Took the words right out of my mouth.

Let him come to you, my penny

sorry, but personally I feel it's a bad idea to push people into this if they don't want to. I belive in "the call" and if it ain't calling you strong enough, then maybe you don't need it that badly. It's not like the experience is guaranteed to be spiritual or life-changing anyway. If it's not the right moment to have that kind of an epiphany moment, then it probably won't happen... and what's worse, it could be downright horrible if it's really not the right moment for him.

So... what's the point of pushing? Why do you feel it necessary he has this experience, if he doesn't feel the need.

I always think that each of us has to explore things at their own pace. As friends, teachers or similar, we can give advice, reveal possible options etc. but forcing others into some experience or into doing something, seldomly has the same beneficial effect as if they take the according steps of their own accord.

I would let it go. But, hey, that's just me...

Ya i seriously think that you are pushing him to hard.



he said he wants to do it when he feels right. Thats kind of the motto of the nexus dude. I never once said any kind of thing like this to my girlfriend or she wouldnt have even tried it. You CANNOT rush DMT onto someone. Simply put he said maybe and you seemed to think he needs to do it when YOU want him to.

You said it yourself "I'm a little stressed", why would you get stressed that he isnt ready?

You also said "I try not to bring it up all the time but once in a while I remind him that he really should just take the plunge and see what all the fuss is about."

The fact that you think "he really should take the plunge" is proof you are pushing him. You shouldnt try to convince anyone to do it after the first time.

It happened like this between my gf and I. I asked her if she was interested, she said "NO". Then every once in awhile i would bring up the common fears and she explained to me why she didnt want to do it. Well then she told me she thinks she wants to try it sometime but not right now. I said ok. Then I would just bring it up like "When you do want to try it how much do you want" stuff like that. I never said hey its time to do it.

You shouldnt "tell" people when they should do it. Simply tell your friend when he is ready to let you know and you will make arrangements. And then every once in awhile talk about DMT to him, not about him needing to do it. Thats not up to you.

What the three posters above me said ^

He should take it if he wants, when he wants, how he wants. It's not up to you to decide, and I dont think it's right or a good thing for you to try to push him into it as you are.

With the three above me.

People will hear the call for a psychedelic once they're ready. To tell a relating story:
I really wanted to try mescaline but usually try new psychedelics with a particular friend. However, he absolutely didn't want to because of the nausea. We spoke twice about it and then I let it rest. Now, 9 months later and him having done his research, he has heard his call and brought up the subject himself. He had dreamt about taking mescaline together with me and said he wanted to try it.

Let it rest, when your friend feels ready he will come to you. Perhaps he has emotional things he feels he needs to work through before wishing to partake on something so intense as a DMT trip. Many Nexians don't smoke DMT or have waited many weeks before feeling ready to try DMT during emotionally rough times. Don't underestimates the damage it could do to him if he entered a trip with a mindset not prepared for what is revealed to him.

It could scare him away from the spice forever.

I wish you and your friend well, you really should apologize if he's a close friend. You were getting worked up over it obviously, your title was "need to vent" and if he was being defensive it was in his right to do so. I have been guilty MANY times of getting worked up about something yet accusing the other person of being the one getting worked up. And saying they were getting defensive. D**m straight they were getting defensive I was probably attacking them with my pushyness.

Any ways, peace and love to you man. Life and emotions can sometimes blind us from our own actions. learn from this by observing your conversations with others and trying to pick out the flaws in your part of the conversation. I have done it with a good amount of success, and am still doing it. We are all still children in an existence of wisdom.

Oh and BTW, is your name really Evan?

yes my name is really Evan, thank you all for your responses.

first i just want to say that i would never push somebody to do something that they just dont want to do. i dont believe that is the case here, i have been very close friends with this person for over a decade now. we know each other very well to say the least. our minds work a lot alike most of the time. we have had hours of in depth conversation about dmt and its effets. he has been very enthusiastic talking about wanting to have the experience on several occasions, but when it comes down to it there is always some little excuse that he seems to find that makes him not want to do it. like vodsel was saying.

The point is i just want to try to remind him that he has litterally told me "im feeling the call" within the past couple weeks. and there really should be no reason not to. i know that he is more than capable of getting himself into the right mindset. he knows he is too.

when i first smoked it i pretty much made myself do it...i wouldnt really say i "heard the call" or whatever (I understand that very much now)I was scared sh*tless i just did it and it was great.i was able to just let go and go with it, and i was happy that i did.

also like i mentioned before he has done it about 3 times before, and he said it was good. i just want to encourage him at the very least, but i could probably work on my approach.

thanks again for all your opinions i read each one and respect them.

i also want to add that im not upset with him in any way for not wanting to try it when i said it was a good time to try it, im just mildly upset that he turned the conversation into something about my life which was completely unrelated to dmt or anything of that nature.i understand where he was coming from but its really not the same. i felt that was a little unnecessary. its really not that big of a deal i just thought he should check it out.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make em drink.

Don't stress over things you can't control. Just let him know you will be there for him when he's ready & leave the topic alone. That's the best thing a friend can do.

you are completely right, thank you. i've had all day to think about it, i've calmed down now, smoked some pot and thought about it and i feel bad now.

See I think your misunderstanding your logic in this. In one sentence you say you don't think you are pushing him and in another you say that he feels the call but you don't see any reason or him not to do it.

Him wanting to do it and him not wanting to do it when you say are not contradictions. And you seem to think they are. One can be interested in something but at the same time not ready for it yet. I get the call all the time and back out just as he did cause It doesn't feel right.

Besides your the one that told him it was time. You can't simply tell someone when it's time for them to take DMT. Otherwise I could say "Evan I feel it's time you try suppository DMT. It just feels time right now" lol

Wait, no Evan don't shove that up your... No Evan wait!

Hehe

I apologized to him today, everything is fine. We already have plans to go to the race track in the morning

I can understand you possibly feeling slightly let down that you have this close friend who has expressed interest in DMT, you've worked together on extractions, and it would be awesome to use that strength in numbers vibe to do some braver exploration than you might be doing on your own. I sometimes wish for this same thing... I have a very keen interest in the subject but only find the yarbles to journey 3-4 times a year. Which for now seems to be the right timing for me, with only half of those being the premium "breakthrough" type experiences. I mean, that's already a lot to integrate. But if I had a buddy down the street who had the same interest, it might be a different story.

As friends, our role is to facilitate positive experiences for those we care about. Sometimes it's hard to draw a line between guiding someone and pushing them, but the amount of resistance we get is the key. Let your friend know that the experience waits for him anytime he's ready... Share your own experiences, tell him what you've seen and learned in there. If between those things he still doesn't feel a calling strong enough to overcome the jitters, well, that's just what it is.

Now that a day has passed, you may want to look within and ask yourself what the real reason was that you got so worked up. This could be a positive and educational moment for you. After all, one of the reasons we take psychedelics is to try improving ourselves.

I agree... you can't tell someone it's time for them to take DMT but you can tell someone that you feel they are ready ( is there a difference?... lol ). My close friend who introduced me to DMT would always say I'm ready... I totally didn't feel like he was pushing me at all. At the same time when he offered me DMT at the time I would decline... and he totally respected that. I felt I was ready but I really wanted to educate myself before taking that plunge... he respected that tenfold. I probably had 10 or so chances to do DMT with this friend before actually doing it... and it worked out perfect.

Looking at that convo I feel Jurema wasn't being overly pushy... maybe a tad edgy but not really pushy... especially considering they are close friends. I feel close friends have a different level of communication sometimes so what may look like an argument from the outside may not be an argument between those two friends.

Just sayin...

I'm not a pro with giving advice to other people but here is my crack at it:

The conversation is fine. The issue is the original poster isn't providing the best set & setting for the person to go off the edge with in the mind.

When I trip I want to know that no matter what happens that my survival, feelings and the awareness that unknown problems or complications could arise will be taken seriously when undergoing an altered state of consciousness and a friend and that type of conversation wouldn't give me the security I need to be pushed off the edge with that person.

Psychonaut In Orbit: nicely put