I've done 8g and 5g and both of them were intense....scary intense..

So tonight I tried 3g and it was just ok at best.....huge letdown..

I'm talking about teas by the way...


So the only difference in the 3g I did tonight was I didn't grind the seeds up. I did let them soak in a little bit of vinegar for a few minutes.

Can not grinding up the seeds be that big of deal???????

I think it is more likely that 3g is just not enough....4 or 5 grams probably makes it better...it is strange because it is only another gram or 2.

yea you really shouldn't need 5g. can you describe in detail how you go about brewing them?

the best way to do it IMO is to let the seeds sit in some water in a blender or something overnight. then blend it up. Then when you brew do it just like ayahuasca, but you can get away with 30 minute boils. Just do three 30 minute boils and filter the crushed seeds each time, combine the pulls, then evaporate it down to a drinkable amount. I just brew over a hundred grams at a time so i don't have to do it often and its always there when i need it. You also won't need vinegar this way

grinding would certainly make a noticeable difference IMO. same with the extra 2g.

from previous posts you sound like you have a higher tolerance to psychedelics in general than most people.

3g is easily enough for me. I have closed eye visions with even less than that. Brewing a tea makes a big difference also.

Yes, you have to grind them. I have tried to just chew them and it didn't work. tea is a little easier on the guts, but I usually just eat them.

You are talking about harmala alone right? 3 grams is the average amount needed for MAO-inhibition. around 4 grams for me at least, a real harmala-alone trip begins. 8 grams is certainly really strong.

What I did in my other attempts with the 5g and the 8g was this:

-Grind Seeds
-Put them in a small pot and pour some vinegar and a little water over them
-Let the sees soak for about 10 minutes
-Add more water and then bring to boil
-Boil/Simmer for 45 minutes
-Strain out seeds and then reduce to a small amount

Yeah man, I am just trying to figure out the correct method and correct dosage for me to have a cool experience with the rue...

What is the highest amount of seeds you have eaten before?

How do you get the seeds down? I don't really want to swallow a bunch of capsules.

Yes, I am talking about a harmala only experience......When I did the 8g I couldn't believe how strong it was....8g is definitely too much, so I am trying to find the right number and the best way to get them down.

So when you brew 100 grams at a time and store it in your fridge, the sediments will fall to the bottom right? Then you just make sure you don't get any sediments off the bottom when you go to drink it?

That will probably work for you. The initial soak is probably unnecessary, and I wouldn't use vinegar on all the pulls. But if you only do one pull, then for sure use vinegar (multiple pulls will get more out though.. It just makes the taste really bad.)

The most I ever ate was after 3.5 grams and some amount of jurema, things went weird and I got into an argument with one of the people I was tripping with about something stupid. After the trip going haywire I didn't have any jurema left, so I just added about 4-6 grams of harmala on top of it (I didn't weigh it and it was maybe 2-3 hours after the jurema. Something about already having harmala and DMT in my system made this large amount of harmala give me no bad side effects, and just have me in a very euphoric state with a distinct "brightness" to everything, it looked like there was actually spotlights on things from time to time. Jamming electric guitar with my friend was an amazing experience, the harmala really helped me connect musically.

Like I said earlier, I usually just toss and wash with some fruit juice (blueberry juice is my favorite for this, with V8 splash being second)

It is usually highly recommended to let it settle in the fridge for a day or so if you are making tea. It actually makes it really easy to filter, as there will usually be a large amount of sediment on the bottom after a day. I just filter the seeds through a strainer and then let the settling take care of all the fine particulates that I don't want to spend an hour filtering off. A vacuum filtration system would make life easier probably but settling works great. Decant with a turkey baster or just carefully decant the now clear yellow liquid off of the nasty brown particulates before reducing.I reduce it to like 1 gram/10ml but that only really works with larger amounts.

8 grams raw is certainly a high dose... I never did that with no admixture, but one of my best friend did once. well 7, but still. He was basically incapacitated for around6 hours, reporting lots of inertia/vertigo, halos of light around things, nausea, and some psychedelic thought patterns. He didn't say he liked it...

anyway, hope any of that helped. Good luck! Harmala is actually a great teacher.

large doses of harmalas are not for the faint of heart, that is for sure. I never took more than about 6g of rue..and that was just too much. With caapi I had a dose of vine that I can imagine being equal to 10g of rue or like 300g of most vine though and I had admixture with it. Until that day I had never gone that deep with harmalas, but I had still gotten in deep with rue and mimosa before. If I had not had those prior high doses of rue with mimosa I dunno how I would have dealt with that experience.

For me, 3g of rue is all I will ever need. Often 2g does it and 1g still gives me some closed eye dreamy visions and can activate mimosa, though it makes more mimosa to do so and the experience is short lived..sometimes less than an hour.

Keep in mind though that I drank ayahuasca every single day in very light doses for over a year, and I have been eating a diet high in raw fruits and greens, and often comprised of only raw fruits and green with the exception of a tiny ammount of seeds..this sort of diet is high in flavanoids and other neuroactive chemicals that are proven in increase melatonin, pinoline etc..so that itself could very easily explain my seemingly growing sensitivity.

On top of that, I dont really follow the paradigm that taking the largest dose to flatten to ego is the most effective way to work with these medicines(for me at least). I did it that way at one point, but after some time(not much, about 10 years which is not a whole lot) of working with these medicines I have come to the conclusion that training my mind through meditation, dreamwork etc and adding diet into the equation to be able to meet the medicine half way takes me much deeper than just taking a larger dose. My take on it is the nervous systems own neurotransmitters and modulators are synergistic with these exogenous molecules..and that this is no coincidence concidering we as mammals make the up one interconnected ecosystem with the plants and other species.

I always do it this way and this is just something that for me has aided in my sensitivity.

Just food for thought in reguards to getting the most out of these things.

Yea just don't take the sediment. The method you described sounds pretty inneficient but you might still very well have a high tolerance for these things for some reason. Everyones different. But still, i would do the way i outlined and you will probably need much less rue to get where you want

Ok, so I just want to get this straight. You take the seed and just put them in a glass of juice and drink it down? Do you find this easy to do? Or is it still a challenge to get down?

For me, drinking the rue tea is so hard....the flavor is just so bad I almost throw up when I drink it. You were saying that the vinegar makes it taste worse, so I definitely won't use that again.

That is awesome, I would love to get myself to this point one day. I am jealous.

I have been reducing the amount of meat I eat though for a while now. Definitely try to not eat beef and pork that much. I usually just eat chicken. I would love to get rid of that stuff and eat super healthy.

Inefficient because I am only making a fresh batch every time I want to take the rue or inefficient because of my method of preparation?

No no, toss n' wash implies that the plant material has been ground up finely before ingestion. I usually just grind, weigh, and put the ground material in my mouth (with a little juice already in my mouth), and then CHUG the juice until the taste is gone. I swish a few time. Toss n' washing the simplest way to take anything... but maybe not the easiest.

The taste is basically the same taste as the tea, except with texture... and the texture with that taste is really nasty! You may just want to make tea dude, I seem to be in a minority of users who take it like this. There have been points where I couldn't do it like that, and had to start encapsulating for a while (though I stopped doing this after a while and went back to the toss n' wash). It only takes 6 stuffed-to-the-brim capsules to inhibit MAO for me, I don't have to measure it if I capsule it 6 always does it.

I think Jaime is right about the diet... this is certainly true regarding negative effects. I am a vegetarian, but my wife is Vegan and I hang out with lots of vegans so I usually eat vegan... I can say that harmala/jurema and probably ayahuasca loves vegan. There is a pretty clear divide between the bad side-effects and having little side-effects depending on how much one eats animal products - not always by any means but there is a relationship. I always like to eat lots of raw vegetables and fruits and as little processed foods as possible around the times that I take harmala..

Just FYI, I don't usually experience strong tyramine-harmala reactions, and I drink coffee/yerba mate or lately eat Kola nut the morning before taking harmala that afternoon routinely without any real ill effects. The other day I ate Kola and forgot I guess, and took harmala/jurema about 3-4 hours afterwards. I experienced no ill effects, except maybe a slight headache. Caffeine with Harmala for me usually just adds a moderate to strong stimulation to the normal effects of harmala with whatever admixture. However, a few weeks ago I took pharma after having drank yerba mate that same afternoon and at the end of the trip I got the worst headache and muscle tension in my back... throbbing headache and near-spasms. I actually had to take 20 mg diazepam and 5 mg oxycodone to cut the pain and help me sleep through it (I NEVER take these sorts of things while tripping. I think trip-abortion is for suckaz.

My feeling about diet and these things is that, while the food-RIMA interaction isn't dangerous per-se, there IS some sort of interaction going on. I was eating meat when I first started to take these sorts of things and I noticed a strong body load going on, which I don't notice any more. my body actually feels amazing on harmala/jurema...

But hell I had some AMAZING trips last year while eating meat... so it's not all about that, by any means. CWE'd jurema gave me a visit to the Land of Properly Slaughtered animals, in which I was told about the ancient pact of blood between hunter and hunted, told by a troupe of skinned, eyelid-less deer which danced around me in rivers of blood. They permitted me to partake of meat that was properly hunted, but forbade me to eat meat that was slaughtered in the modern industrial manner. That was a wild and awesome trip.

well..both i guess. lol. But i was referring to you're method of preparation being inefficient, which is why i suggested the one most people seem to use

Damn, I was hoping you were gonna say that you don't really taste it and it is pretty easy to swallow.....that really sucks. lol

make a smoothie using some bananas and strawberries and throw the desired amount of a syrian rue brew into it. You won't even taste it

universecannon's advice is solid.

Sorry! It's just a pretty nasty thing to ingest dude. If you're having really bad problems with taking it, try extracting the actives! However, a few like Jaime and I have noticed that the extracted harmalas lack something compared to the whole plant... there's less independent activity or something... I don't know what it is, but the experience is more full with the whole plant, or probably a full-spectrum extract. I haven't made a full-spectrum ectract of harmala before, but someone here told me when I was inquiring about it that ethanol is probably the best way to to that. Just soak some ground seeds in ethanol in a sealed bottle or jar for a few weeks (less could be enough) and evap to yield the results!