There is a neolithic site called Newgrange, in Ireland. It is a pagan sun-worship site. There are three burial mounds that mark the winter and summer solstices. If you ever get the chance to go there, do, it's amazing.

Anyway, archaeology there suggests that the people ate both meat and vegetables. However, during the time when plant produce was plentiful (ie. spring and summer) they ate plants SOLELY.

It was only during the winter months, when food was scarce, that they resorted to eating meat. This suggests they only did it out of necessity, just as, say a Tibetan monk might in winter.

My point is that, yes, we have evolved omnivorously, but it may have been only out of necessity, on certain times in the year. It seems they ate meat when other food was unavailable, only.

in many of the posts I've read, it's based on irrational fear of chemicals. The word "food-grade" seems to resonate well with people who don't understand concepts of acute and prolonged exposure. perhaps they are not confident with their preparative skills, because a thorough evap and/or wash is effective enough to eliminate ANY toxicity issues.
a naysayer may say, "well, you don't know what trace amounts of chems can do", and blah blah blah...again, in the vast cases of chemical toxicity, it is a function of exposure vs. time. if you're not ingesting drugs all the time, it shouldn't be a concern at all.
even d-limo has exposure limits, thus, it can be toxic.

btw, veal tastes amazing. I had the most awesome food-grade veal cutlet sandwich the other day, with herbs de provence and toasted garlic...on wheat bread. fantastic.

life's too short to live like a hypochondriac.

On a personal note. I wish I could bring myself to eat some animal waste products (offal etc) as that may both constitute a MORAL act (nothing is wasted) and they are the richest in nutrients.

They just taste...well, weird.

Another thing about GM foods - they could well feed the starving of the world. In places of drought, drought-resistant wheat could save lives, for example.

Trouble is, they have been made to not flower and seed, so people have to keep buying new seeds.

But yea, they are not inherently bad I don't think.

Why not do a 30 day trial of veganism to see if you like it or not? The best way to decide is not to ask for outside advice, but to listen to your body.

@Jdubs: First off it's cultures like Newgrange (or potential cultures) that inspired my current diet. I feel like in a society where we heat our homes to a summer climate it's sort of ridiculous to eat like it's winter on a consistent basis.

-Jdubs

I completely agree man. There's a lot of hate about GMOs in the ... let's say "counter-culture" of my area. Which is to say the peace freaks.

The fact is though marijuana for one, and countless other agricultural plants are GMO for thousands of years. Unless the plant is wild it's GMO.

The real danger is definitely that they are GMOing the plants to NOT flower and NOT make seeds which is where GMO goes from being human ingenuity to human psychopathic greed.

@Benzyme:

I forgot to mention the most important part about the d-limo/Naptha point. I've done quite a bit of reading and tend to agree that all things are toxic and it's just a matter of quantities. My issue however is the safe and proper disposal and handling of something like Naptha versus something like d-limonene. It's much easier to handle in confined environments (kitchen in a regular house), and disposal doesn't worry me like it does with Naptha or Xylene.

I sort of like veal, but to be honest I just simply don't enjoy meat after I went vegetarian/vegan/pectarian/randomtarian 4 years ago. Jungleheart has it spot on "listen to your body."

@modsquad: I'm not sure if local farms take food stamps .. but they often appreciate volunteerism in various ways, or in fact I find they swing you deals if you're a regular friendly customer. Like 10 bags of vegtables for the price of 8 type thing. Plus at least for me I find things are sometimes cheaper than the super-market equivalent .. not often, but when it happens it's a "wow" moment. Try to find a good bulk store for things like nutritional yeast, popcorn, grains, and beans. It can end up being a good money saver.

"The fact is though marijuana for one, and countless other agricultural plants are GMO for thousands of years. Unless the plant is wild it's GMO."

Dude what are you talking about? Do you know what GMO means? Cannabis has been hybridized for a long time..not genetically modified for thousands of years. Saying "unless a plant is wild it is GMO" is a completely false statement. Sure some hemp has been genetically modified but that is a new thing.

Going on about plants not flowering or producing seeds-that is largely a side effect of hybridization, and only occasionally. Yes some GMO crops like "terminator seeds" do no produce seeds so that farmers can be charged endlessly but that is not some old practice.

Banannas do not produce seeds becasue they are hybridized..you can have organic hybrid foods..we buy seedless organic hybrid watermelons all the time that are not GMO.

Understand that there is a difference between GMO foods and hybrid foods. There are tons of cultivated foods that are not wild anymore, are hybridized and are still not GMO.

I dont care what people think about GMO, just that the statement quoted above shows a lack of understanding of what GMO really is.

Thanks for enhancing my understanding.

I do, but the only reason I do is because there is so little foods I can actually eat. (Gluten allergy)

Also another reason to not support GMO is the people behind much of it that you are supporting. I personally do not like supporting money hungry bastards like monsanto who royally screw honest hard working farmers by producing GMO crops that are sterile so farmers have to come back every year and buy more seed from them..and when the pollen goes downwind and pollinates another farmers crops monsanto then goes and sues them for theft or something of their trademarked genetics.

I will never support these people. The whole GMO issue is much deeper than just some people worried about health.

.. And thanks Jamie for correcting my ignorance.

What you just said is what I pretty much meant to say, but I clouded it with my lack of research into the true meaning of GMO. I knew it meant Genetically Modified Organism, but I didn't really put two and two together in that it isn't just simple genetic manipulation by hybridization, etc. it's directly altering the actual genetic structure. I've never really studied genetics so I was totally out in left field.

I didn't think hate was possible until I became aware of Monsanto's crimes ...

^^THIS.

yes many people mix up hybridization and genetic modification. Hybridization is fine usually, as all plants are basically hybrids..I mean if you go back far enough to a plants evolutionary history you will fine that at some point it hybrized with other species etc..this is normal and happens in nature all the time. Genetic modification is a new thing that never took place outside of the laboratories and really we just do not know what eating that does. They do this by inserting genes into bacteria and from what I understand the bacteria somehow (attacks?) the DNA of the organism and inserts these genes.

There is some speculation that this bacteria cannot differentiate between the DNA of the plant and our DNA and can sort of hikack our own DNA in the same way.

Here is a link to one blog that discusses this speculation.

http://gmfreescotland.bl...11/04/agrobacterium.html

There is nothing that is GM that I cannot get non GM so I personally feel no reason take that risk. GM foods also cannot be labled organic so they have no financial motivation to not just spray the hell out of the crops with pesticides. It is an interesting but also somewhat reckless technology and not a technique I want being used on my food.

Ok so records from the ancient times says people lived to be 200 or something off of plants only.
Then after adam/eve or moses(can't remember) God said that they could eat animals(meat).
According to the bible after that (the flood) man lived shorter lives, like 100 being the oldest. And ate meat.

It was said people were way smarter too, so i guess they knew what we knew now about what grains to eat to get the full amino acid profile right?

or were they just blessed by god?

Is it possible to not get all the amino acid/protein and live? I'm guessing not.

So would this be a good protein shake to take with veggie/fruit smoothies?
http://www.gardenoflife..../tabid/1894/Default.aspx

I have a mutivitamin from them as well;
http://www.gardenoflife..../tabid/1369/Default.aspx

Bought some extra b12.

Is there anything else i would need?

That's pretty weak empirical data, don't you think?

What's the difference between the above claim and me claiming that there's a man in the sky who will turn you into a pillar of salt if you look back at the towns he's razing?

of course. but a lot is true to the bible, like fasting and the benefits. I mean of course 200 years old off of plants sounds ubsurd, but so does the ___ you see in dmt land. who knows what happened or whats true after that, ii mean i bet a lot of religions twist the bibles and lie, or the gov't may have gotten a hold of them and changed them, but who really knows.

Well, grains are thought to not even be ideal human food. Grains in our diet seem to be a relativly recent phenomenon as we moved out onto the plains and got into agriculture. The paleo people are really big on the no grains thing. I know that for me I cant do grains because I am gluten intolerance..and I did an experiment this last week after being off grains totally for 1.5 years. I got some organic black rice, super good grown in volcanic soil and boiled it up and ate it..I did feel sick. I felt all clogged up inside and got a gut ache. I can eat quinoa(not concidered a grain) fine though so that is odd. Some people might be fine though so this is why personal experimentation is the best way to know really.

About amino acids..you dont need grains, nuts, seeds or meat to get a full amino acid profile. Fresh, raw fruits and veggies contain all the amino acids required. You end up eating much more than you would imagine eating just that though. You would be surprised at how much muscle some people have put on living of fruits and really dark leafy greans. I dont see any real problems with having some protein from nuts and seeds though, and personally I like fats.

B12 is a more complicated issue..but has been proven to exists outside of animal sources. It is found in cultured foods, wild water sources and in vegetation that is close to the ground due to the bacteria in the earth that produce cobalamin. There is some debate about how much you would have to ingest of these things to get adequate ammounts of cobalamin. I have also heard the arguement that meat eaters require more b12 than vegans..I dunno how true any of that is though. The whole b12 thing is kind of up in the air I think currently.

I was never found to have any b12 problems as a vegan when I had my blood tests..and minxx has been vegan for about 5 years now and I took her to the hospital not long ago and she got full blood work and her b12 levels checked out fine. Still people keep saying I will benifit from it somehow..so I did another experiment and went out and got some quality methylcobalamin and took it for a week last month. I dunno if I am sopposed to start feeling different but I dont, probly because my levels were already fine.

So how come it says from a lot of sites online that you gotta combine lentils and grains/beans/rice to get all the essential amino's? It says vegans can't get them all from veggies and that's were they encounter problems?

Ok i'm gonna try that raw protein mix just to see how i feel. I would like to cut out gluten even though i don't think i have an allergy to it. (also wanna go get tested for allergies)
Cause i heard it can cause problems even if your not sensitive to it, and i don't want inflamation and acne either.

Here are some of the veggies and fruits i mix(VITAMIX) in their seperate meal drinks. I drink the fruit's first. (FOOD COMBING RULE) Then about 30 min or more later i drink my veggie drink/drinks. Usually the size of two normal keva cups/common house glasses.

Here's the list:

-Strawberry
-cherry
-blackberry
-blueberry
-raspberry
-acai
-goji
-pineapple

---

-beet
-carrot
-spinach
-tomato
-Green bell pepper
-parsley
-cucumber
-celery
-Tumeric
-Ginger
-Cayenne
-Fennel
-Lettuce

Trying to stay away from Cruciferous Vegetables(Kale, cabbage) for gas/stomach problems ive noticed.

Let me know how many servings of each i need to get all the protein, or what has which proteins so i will know how much to blend. Thanks

I love cabbage and kale as much as meat eaters love whatever meat they fancy. I feel bad for you!

Raw sauerkraut and kale everything (including raw up front straight from the garden) and in smoothies are essentially some of my favourite foods. Oh that and Cashews.

I haven't backed this up with much science, but empirically and from vegans I know I'm not too worried about getting amino acids from the lentil grains/beans/rice combo.

I *think* it's just old disproved science that says you need to combine those foods to get enough amino acids (possibly perpetuated by the meat industry to make choosing vegtables as a primary food source "difficult," possibly not)

Still I make sure to consume quinoa pretty regularly (main grain), and about a cup of hemp seeds at least once a week.

Plus I happen to like home-made Chana Masala over rice which you can pretty much mix and match as far as beans/spices/vegetables are concerned.

But I definitely don't worry about it, I include them (quinoa, hemp, flax, fish) plus a little cheese/yogurt/potatoes (B12) in my diet, but it's almost just as much because I enjoy them as edibles as it is because I "require" them as part of my diet.

I personally believe that humans are at our core omnivores. Just like the bears in the forest. So I don't really out-rule any foods for any people. I think the most important thing to consider with your food is WHERE did you get it from, and WHAT impact its production and delivery have on life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Objectively speaking no man or organization own those words I'm using them for their meaning not their connotations, and I guess that leaves others to use them how they'd like.

There are certain arguments that imply that if you're vegan for ethical reasons then you shouldn't make it a matter of "convenience" by occasionally breaking the rules. IMO that's utter non-sense and the ethical action begins with your first step to actually consider altering your diet. You're realizing that your diet has ethical implications, and perhaps part of the problem isn't that people eat one type of food instead of another. It's just the single minded preferral of one food instead of another—especially when that other has serious ethical implications.

I eat tons and tons of cabbage and kale also..we make jars of kimchi ourselves and I can eat bowl of that stuff..sourkaraut too..and kale chips..lots of kale chips..loaded with sulphur and so good for you.