After listening to the latest edition of the Joe Rogan Experience podcast, his guest Shane Smith brought up krokodil and scopolamine in that order. I was very interested to learn of the ways in which scopolamine is being used in Colombia and how it affects its victims. I then realized that this is one of the tropane alkaloids in Datura stramonium, which then inspired me to delve deeper into Datura experiences.

I don't wish to use Datura and never will. I'm not interested. BUT I imagine I'm not alone in the psychonaut community in having a fascination for what Datura among other deliriants seem to provide that the psychedelic experience does not: true hallucinations. After all, I'm assuming that this fascination is what drives many individuals to use diphenhydramine or Datura to begin with. From what I've gathered via reading horrific trip report after another, my impression is that the hallucinations are not necessarily the worst part if not the only worthwhile part of the trip.

This just makes me curious if there is a controlled and more responsible/safe way to induce the sort of hallucinatory experience that deliriants provide, unless I'm completely mistaken and hallucinations are not desirable/interesting in any way and are instead psychologically damaging. This is only a recently conceived thought so don't come down to hard on me. If this post is not appropriate for this forum, I completely understand.

What constitutes a true hallucination?

A true hallucinogen would be, in this case, something that makes it impossible to distinguish fantasy from reality. DMT and Mushrooms would be considers psychedelics but the visuals seen are able to be determined as not real or as a result of the psychedelic. Datura and Diphenhydramine are true hallucinogens because they makes it impossible to tell whether something seen is real or imagined.

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As far as Datura, many people are scared away from it because they only hear of the bad experiences of it. While many people do have bad experiences, a controlled mindset and suitable setting always prevails when taking anything. Don't be scared, just be prepared and you don't have to fear doing anything that might hurt yourself.

Deleriants like Datura have value if they are used properly (aka good set and setting) and can be insightful, but there is never a guarantee that they will provide any beneficial experience if one is not prepared. Unlike psychedelics such as LSD or Mushrooms, people know that they are going to hallucinate and so they don't have to be as mentally prepared for the experience because they know what they are seeing is not real whereas Datura requires you to know that you might be hallucinating and be aware of this at all times. This becomes problematic when people forget they are hallucinating and begin to freak out over what they are seeing.

Ultimately, deleriants can be used in a controlled and responsible/safe way but they require more preparation. That is really all there is to it. Don't fear it, just prepare for it.

In some rare cases, some Nexians have reported having true hallucinations with DMT. I believe endlessness has a story of his own.

High doses of harmalas in silent darkness..although tryptamines can do that as well IME but it's different

This is a bad idea!!! So never do it!

But I took 20 allergy pills (diphenhydramine)or benadryl one time and I definitely got these "true" hallucinations. One of the worst experiences of my life.

Honestly if true hallucinations are always going to be of that manner, I see no benefit in having them. I have always liked DMT and shrooms because I can tell when I am tripping and when I am not. And it gives more meaning to the experience. But when you can not tell the difference, it takes that meaning away. You pass it off as normal and it scares the shit out of you.

The least to say is that is is a painful experience, I do not wish to relive it all because it is all irrelevant and of no use. It leaves you feeling empty and in pain emotionally, and eaten up physically.

Again I warn you guys, from my experience, my advice is to never try this kind of stuff.

Peace

why not just take salvinorin? If that doesnt produce full blown experiences than I dont know what will.

I have had "true hallucinations" with both DMT and mushrooms..for brief periods.

Often with Harmalas, I don't realise I'm tripping until each vision is over.

So it feels real as it's happening. The hallucinations just feel totally normal. Not in a scary way, but a natural one.

Psychiatric clinics are full of people who experience "true hallucinations". And what good is it doing them?
MMPA, I think your advice on Datura is somewhat irresponsible, that is if anyone where silly enough to take it on board. ( which I doubt there is at least here)

soulfood has a great report of an experienced true hallucination in the quality experience report section.

This may sound boring, but look into sleep deprivation. There are responsible ways to do it. You will eventually hallucinate, truly.

My dad had "true hallucinations" once on LSD. From 12 hits of 4-way I believe.

"Dreaming" might be a safe way to experience such things, especially if you can become proficient at having Lucid Dreams.

wow, yea i totally forgot salvia! A breakthrough into salvia land would take the cake IMO, as far as "true hallucinations" go. Each and everytime i've completely forgotten about the whole "human gig" and its total immersion

yup salvia is one of the most direct routes if that is where you want to go. Even with a quid it can get very real.

Sleep deprivation is one of the better ones but in no means safe lol my friend did it and spent a week or more up and was seeing dead ppl all over his house and demons crawling out of furniture and cldnt shower because when he wld close his eyes to wash his hair he felt a hand come at him out of the shower head. He wended up taking a knife and attacking a chair because he kept seeing a demon come out and back in it and wanted it out and told his mom he can see dead ppl and he got sent to the loony bin till he slept it off.

Sounds like fun. I'd love to be cooped up in my house awake for days sometime. Lol @ the stabbing, I think I would know when it's time to go to sleep. Did he not know he was hallucinating at that point and just kept pushing it?