Interesting,

Could you elaborate a bit on your experiences with that? I just have a hard time imagining it would make 10g like 100g

Good point, Jamie.

Both are medicinal in their own ways, and i guess each have their strengths. I saw on one site a comparison of the two. Actually i thought it was wrong, because like you say, Aya can be a extremely powerful, it's just depends on the brew, etc, like you said.

yeah, it is not even so much how powerful it is though..becasue you can use lots of admixture and minimal vine and still have a very powerful experience..it is the large doses of vine specifically that get rough and feel less gentle for me..not to say that large doses of oral DMT are gentle though..but it is the larger doses of harmalas that can leave me feeling like I need to spend the next day in bed.

I think it's all interesting. I must admit, i have been enchanted with the idea of taking Iboga for personal development.

I read that you can ask Iboga questions, and you get the answer!, I read that the HCL version is more direct, with less visuals. Someone said he thought visuals were a cop out to facing the truth of our failures. I can see what he meant.

Ayahuasca is a beautiful medicine, but like Jamie said can be hell on earth. I think both have great uses. I would try Ayahuasca, and if that didn't do the trick, there's always Iboga.

Whilst Iboga may be a great treatment for certain things, so is Ayahuasca for others or the same. It all depends. Regardless, i think Aya would most likely be hard to beat for it's incredible visions. Iboga isn't so famed for those.

What's great about Iboga is that there's a lot less shamanic stuff involved compared to Ayahuasca. There may be initiation ceremonies, etc, but the Iboga is working alone. No need for Icaros, mapacho, etc. Iboga is a simpler thing to get to get to grips with and understand , Ayahuasca is a loong topic..Look at this forum!!

The ayahuasca ritual is only as complex as you make it

And the same goes about preparing the stuff!

Iboga on the otherhand is either eaten alone or as a simple extract, or as HCL. There isn't much more to Iboga than that i believe.

-In terms of intent, i guess it's more important for Iboga than Ayahuasca, although intent is always reccomended in an Aya trip i would generalise.

In Daniel Pinchbeck's description of his Iboga ceremony, he seemed far from alone and there seemed to be plenty of ritual.

Yea, cos he did a ceremony. The point i try to make is that Ayahuasca generally requires more ceremony at home even than say Iboga would. Ideally Aya at home should include some Icaros, mapacho, and incense to clear the space and protect it. This doesn't seem to be such an issue with Iboga, neither are there such diet restrictions, etc.

I use neither icaros (music maybe), mapacho (don't use tobacco), nor incense, yet my ayahuasca ceremonies are beyond sacred to me, and I take them very seriously. They can get quite deep, work quite well and feel very healing despite my lack of "traditional" rituals. I don't think I'm alone in this boat either. I think you're overgeneralizing too much here.

You're probably right, i haven't tried Iboga yet. But on the surface it does seem to be simpler. There are no dietary concerns like there can be with Ayahuasca, and there really isn't too much variety in ways to take it. What could be simpler than eating a few bark scrapings?

Iboga isn't simpler than ayahuasca. There is a list of downrigth dangerous (deadly risk) substance to avoid, such as with harmalas in high enough dose.
If you were to flood it's simple as eating scrapes of bark you will possibly be in for A- a failure , B- Hospital C- worst scenario
Iboga is very serious and doing a full dose isn't something to take lightly.

Christian, it is clear you didn't have a clue but please don't spread any misinformation here or there.

Thanks.

I don't think you understand me, do you Rom?, and i don't think you are correct to say that i haven't got a clue, because it's obvious you're trying to be difficult to deal with again.

Of course anybody wanting to try Iboga needs to get seriously informed, and it doesn't take much intelligence to realise and read that they are in for a tough time. Of course it's simpler than Ayahuasca in terms of preparation, how long does it take to boil Caapi and viridis, etc, over say eat rootbark, or prepare a simple vinegar extract???. Sure there may be things like high doses of harmalas not to combine with, but only a fool would do so, you might as well state more obvious things like don't drive when taking Iboga, or don't try injecting insulin, etc. . Let's get real Rom, you don't take Iboga for a laugh, people aren't stupid!

Eating the rootbark is done by many people. Generally though people tend to prefer the extract because there isn't the plant matter to deal with. It doesn't take more than a few minutes on a decent site to realise this. So why say otherwise?

Let us not try and make Iboga out to be something mysterious, because the facts are out there, and can be quickly read. What's with this misinformation jibe?
.........................................................................................

something copied from a site that took 3 seconds to find:

Session Preparations:

Avoid fried, fatty, salty, overprocessed food especially refined sugars & carbohydrates. Eat whole grains, fruits, vegetables, fish and chicken.
1 week before take a B-12 capsule, 1000mg Vit C, potassium, magnesium & calcium supplements plus ½ aspirin daily.
Hydrate the week before and the day before drinks lots of electrolyte such as Gatorade.
Fast on the day of the session with a light breakfast of fruit, fresh juice (avoid grapefruit juice), tea if desired, water and a little porridge. Do not eat further but continue to drink liquids approximately 3 glasses per hour.
Practise controlled breathing into the stomach. On day of session this is your main tool for regulating noxious feelings and works remarkably well.
Set your intentions for the session. Write down all the issues you feel are important to you. If you have negative life patterns make a plan for a change of lifestyle and put the necessary supports in place beforehand.
Avoid strenuous activity on the day and travel by public transport to and from the session.
In the weeks leading up to the session undergo daily exercise of at least 20 minutes to ½ hour ensuring a good warm up has been achieved. If preferred walking or swimming will suffice.
Eliminate alcohol at least 10 days beforehand
If you are taken any other medications or drugs please discuss this beforehand.
EKG, Liver panel and blood composition tests are required. For further tests see Safety.
Have some form of support network in place post-session.
Body therapies such as massage, reiki, rolfing, acupuncture and energy work can be helpful for grounding post session. Otherwise walking and swimming along with ones own emotional catharsis is equally beneficial.
Keep a dream journal and document your experience.
The session will be more comfortable if the digestive tract is clear. Plenty of roughage in the diet will help this process along.
Water canl be administered during the session via a mouthpiece.
During the initial part of the session it is important to breath in a controlled and proper manner. At the first sign of nausea it is important to breath calmly into your stomach. As one is prone to motion sickness, movement should be kept to a minimum and be of an ordered fashion.
Use a non-intrusive recorder if you wish to speak notes during the session. It should operate independently of your help.
Use a loose top and light pants to wear during the session.
The session will be more successful if you focus on the material which is presented.
Once the initial visual (& most difficult) part of the session is over a long period of mental processing normally takes place. This is usually quite exhausting but is very important to the success of the session. Think of it as a marathon with the prize up ahead. Don’t worry if you feel uneasy during this section. Sleep normally comes unexpectedly despite difficulty in falling asleep, waking renewed and refreshed.
An eye mask can be used and the room darkened to help see visuals.
Clients sometimes go a little stir crazy after such a longer period of intense activity. Until they have slept this will not go away. Clients should be conscious of how this affects their behaviour.
Drink glasses of vitamin C before the session and once the session has ended to reffresh the body.
No driving for a week as ones reflexes are significantly lessened.
Integrating the experience is vital and this can be helped along by grounding exercises such as sports and activities, as well as daily life interaction with people while applying your new insights into different patterns of behaviour.
Ensure that you avoid any environment which supported your previous life habits which you now seek to change. Make a plan.
Take melatonin to help with sleep deprivation.
Include omega 3 fatty acids, vit b6 and vit b12 in your diet. For those coming off a dependence on alcohol etc it is suggested to take 5htp, l-tyrosine, d-phenlalamine +DL-phenylalanine and GABA supplements to restore the brains natural mood enhancers.
For a time eat wholegrains, fruit, vegetables, fish and chicken. Your taste will be more refined after the session which makes this easier.
Know what you seek!

For healing, iboga works faster. But if you realy want a quick healing, having someone by your side to guide you through the proces may make a great difference.

Ayahuasca may not work as fast, but that doesn´t make it less valuable.

Many people who´re into ayahuasca have had periods of intensive use, and during those periods they realy undergo a deep and profound transformation that can last a lifetime.

A short period of intensive use can be like going to university, learning a new language or reading a book: you go deeper and deeper, your knowledge, vocabulary and skills keep expanding and you go through new chapters everytime, like picking up the story where you left, everytime you re-enter the realm.

And rOm is definately right: iboga requires a more thorough preparation. The reason why people don´t talk about an 'iboga diet' like they do with ayahuasca may be culturally: maybe iboga-related deaths are considered a more acceptable and unavoidable risk in west african cultures than ayahuasca-related deaths are in amazonian cultures.
The chances of dying from an overdose or cardiac arrest is definately greater with iboga than with ayahuasca.

I consider ayahuasca to be perfectly safe as long as you follow a few basic rules.
And while i don´t want to discredit iboga in any way, i think no-one would ever call iboga 'perfectly safe'.

Rom was actually wrong, because he understood what i wrote. I wrote that Ayahuasca is harder to prepare, and it is. Iboga can be eaten as rootbark, or simple extract. of course there are other purifications.

The Iboga diet restrictions seem to be less so than of Aya requirements.

No one said Iboga was perfectly safe, neither is Ayahuasca, because Aya can contain admixtures that can and have killed people.

http://colombiareports.c...-ayahuasca-ceremony.html

Kambo, it's pretty obvious that anyone that would 'consider' taking Iboga would first do a little research, than take the few words i mentioned to heart, especially since Iboga is such a powerful long lasting medicine. That is pretty damned obvious to me. And this site is lacking in Iboga information compared to other more dedicated sites.

Of course some kinda ritual is important, as with ANY psychadelic deep experience. I simply stated that there isn't 'suc'h emphasis as mapacho, icaros, creating and maintaining a scared space as Aya should ideally be taken in. There doesn't need to be a Shaman, just a sitter.

Iboga can be taken in many forms. The HCL is the easiest tolerated it seems. None the less it's considered normal to do an allergy test with 1-2 grammes before going into a heavier dose. This kinda knowledge obviously can be found on the more dedicated site, and i would urge anybody considering Iboga to gather as much info about the stuff like i have before even considering such a task. We are not a kindergarden after all, so no need to state the obvious!

BTW, it is not reccomended to perform handstands or cartwheels when under the influence of Iboga!

Christian, you mean 1-2 grams test dose of the bark, NOT of HCl, right?

Also, please no need for the confrontational sarcastic tone.

Yes, i do Endlessness.

I apologise for sarcastic tone, but am not the only 1.

I think that the ayahuasca brews most people in the west are familiar with, that is: simple caapi-chacruna or mimosa brews, taken in normal amounts (like around 50 grams of caapi) without admixtures like sanango, and taken by a person with a normal health (you don´t need to be superfit or something) IS perfectly safe.

Incidents like in the article are extremely rare. I don´t believe those people had the type of brew like most people in the west are familiar with.

If my mother of 70 would decide to take a 'conventional' ayahuasca brew, i would have no worry at all. In communities like the santo-daime, it´s quite normal that people over 70 years old partake in ayahuasca rituals.

Statistically, those 'conventional' brews like taken by the daime and vegetals are safer than many OTC med´s.

We know nothing of their medical history, nothing of the medicine they could have been taking, nothing about what their "aya" was.

I would not jump to conclusions without more reliable info.

"There is no evidence that these people died from drinking ayahuasca. The article above is a comment on media reports; the details are still under investigation, and the results of the autopsies have not been published."

http://www.bialabate.net...ybrid-ayahuasca-ceremony

In terms of newspapers, water kills, sun kills, iboga kills, DMT kills, MDMA kills, caffeine kills, etc. Context is king.

Hi Forrest

I was just wondering if you managed to do iboga or ayahuasca I have similar problems to u
I recently done an iboga flood and it has cleared up a lot for me but I feel the need to do another one

Would love to hear how u went and what u used I would have pm"d you but apparently I'm not allowed to send pms feel free to send one to me tho