(I posted this in another thread, but decided to just post it as a report to try and discuss it. I feel as though I need to have some help integrating or just advice on how to proceed. Or if anyone who has experienced this reads will you tell me the outcome? Thanks everyone, I think this community is really important - we need to be in this together as far as this particular medicine goes...)

This is very bizarre... I just had an eerily similar experience to this one not 30 minutes ago... I looked it up to see if anyone else had gotten this and I came across this...

I have been smoking changa for the past 4 days... I made my first batch with 11x caapi and 3.6 mg spice per 10 mg changa. It's been going fine, all good trips, nothing even close to bad - until tonight.

It was 4 of us. I set some intentions and took 60 mg in one or two hits... Something happened and my closed-eye space was DARK... like exaggerated darkness, an inky blackness. I was a bit confused, and waited. I then felt a strange ominous air enter the space and asked everyone else if the felt it. 3/4 of us did. We continued, with everyone else getting good experiences. Later in the night two of them went to bed and it was just me and one other guy. He took a hit from 60 mg but didn't clear it. He reported lots of open eyed visuals but the same exaggerated darkness with closed eyes. I finished his dose as he was done, noticing the same inky blackness behind my eyelids and only a small area of dark purple prismatic space that was very dim.

Here's where the freaky stuff starts: I told him that I think I may be developing a tolerance, but I didn't think that that could happen so I decided to do the experiment and do another dose right then to see if anything happened. I chose another 60 mg. I took one good hit, clearing 80% of the bowl... the darkness began to envelop me, I got a disturbing tunnel-vision with the inky blackness trying to cover me completely. I was starting to get alarmed but stayed calm. I went inside and immediately turned on the brightest light I could. When I did that, the visuals came. There was an intense warping to the kitchen, like all the walls were bending in on themselves and the everything was falling and melting off it's hinges. I walked back outside and sat down. I was at the edge of panic, but thankfully I am experienced enough now to know better than punching THAT tar-baby. I was talking to my friend just to keep one foot in this world and stave off the darkness, and I thought that this very well may be Satan or some other dark force, and I've recently been having the idea that simply TELLING a dark spirit forcefully to leave is enough, so I did. Around that time, the inky blackness behind my eyes began fluttering and this white light came through it - ah how can I explain this? It was like a host of skeletal animal and plant ghosts was flying away from me! I got the idea then that this "darkness" was the oppressive shade of these ghost's forms around me, and that they were somehow trying to do something with me... I had NEVER seen visuals like this, either the inky oppressive blackness or the White-light-that-seemed-like-ghosts... After the last of the ghosties left I had the visuals of a come-down from a strong changa charge....


I really think people should know about this, the dark side needs to be discussed more. Not so much to ward people off, as to maybe find a way we can combat or deal with this... needless to say, I will be taking a good long break from DMT, as I've been doing it way too often, intentions or no. This was my second real brush with the dark-side, however it was different that the last one. I got a very strong, crushing, looping, recrusive pattern that was at once mental, visual, and in a strange way physical... it was like being flushed down the DMT-toilet... but this Darkness and then ghost-like things flying away from me letting in a bright white light was almost scarier - despite the fact that I kept it cool - there was a strong sense that if I let myself be taken into this darkness nothing good would come of it and I may be in real danger... But I think throwing bright light onto it and then forcefully telling the darkness to leave helped. But now I have this very creepy feeling of being watched...

In the day after (today) I have felt generally worn out and somewhat tripped out still, and cannabis brought a half-mast DMT-esque trip into being... I had to just go to sleep and upon waking I feel better but still kindof tired and weird...

What is there to be done about this? I am most definitely taking a break from DMT/changa, but has anyone noticed this sort of thing bleeding into other psychedelics? I have a bufotenine changa in the process of being made but I am very wary of trying it after last night... I mean, cannabis was visually psychedelic today, the day after the above experience... I won't be doing any psychedelics for a few weeks at least...

Sounds to me like you were very close to a breakthrough and you warded it off in fear that going deeper would be more of the darkness/evil you were experiencing at the sub level.

Sound about right?

I don't blame you, I have fought hyperspace off with every last ego driven thought before and in all honesty, this leads to a far worse experience than the experience itself.

The fighting can wear you down and instill that sense of fear in you, no doubt.

Next time, if things aren't going your way the first attempts, I wouldn't suggest going in for more..that's just my experience, others will tell you they've had better trips after the initial attempt, but for me the greed usually leads to something worse or getting a butt-kicking.

A break sounds like a decent idea so you can wrap your mind around what happened, best of luck integrating, we've all been here before.

It honestly wasn't me "warding off" a trip... the trip wasn't happening, there was very little DMT-type activity going on... It was just a pitch-blackness that was becoming tunnel vision and threatening to consume me. when I threw light on and told whatever it was to go, I got very strange visuals that were really not too DMT-like, other than the walls and doors melting/moving - but even that was off. Then the whole ghosties thing...

Actually I did my best to not fight it, and this is why it didn't turn into a full-fledged freakout. I've done that once and I knew better than to do it again... I just let it happen, and held back any alarm at the skeletal-ghosts...


That is good advice about not trying again if I'm getting weird effects... it was definitetly the third attempt that set this off.


I am thinking that perhaps DMT being an astral tool makes one more susceptible to attack from negative beings... there was a strong sense of a "possession" attempting to happen, I've been doing a bit of research on Jurema's possession-cults in brazil and this is another experience to add to my thinking about that subject...

I misunderstood this that the "consuming" was going to bring you much deeper. It still might have.

I am unfamiliar with anything having to do with possession, I haven't yet encounter such a phenomena.

Maybe you are supposed to let go. Jump straight into that darkness. This is the abyss calling to you...

And/or the Jungian shadow. Either way, something to be accpted and dealt with. A shadow to be embraced, or a void to be crossed.



OR it could be some malignant spirit, something to be resisted. At all costs, do not open till doomsday, go back while you still can! It may sound like I am making fun, but I empathize muchly and malignant spirits, possession, madness, evil, your soul in peril, giving in to the darkness, becoming seduced and being lost forever...well, that stuff is just as real as anything else. Sometimes. Other times it aint real at all. It depends on the coordinate system, I reckon.

My suggestion: a talisman. Or mantra. A word of power. You've seen movies and read mythology and stuff man! Go face your deamons, go up against the potential loss of everything and come back, re-integrated on a higher level. Or translate what I just said with a different metaphor and analize it with a different coordinate system.

If that makes any sense....

For right now: comfort food, positive music and go do something utterly mundane. Dishes and laundry and yard work.

that sir, is great advice!

I have heard a lot of people saying one should "let go" or "surrender" when something like this happens but I feel like that is just sort of generic DMT advice.
In my opinion every DMT situation is not solved by "letting go"

I do think that "don't panic" is universal advice for DMT however..

I believe that when a person has an experience as bad a what AluminumFoilRobots has described here that there may be more going on here than Just "refusing to let go"...

From my experience when things go this badly on DMT it means that there is something I am not doing correctly in my day to day life....

I personally believe that the negative energy we radiate from day to day can have the effect of feeding these dark entities energy...which they will save up in a miserly fashion until they decide on an opportune time to clobber you with the energy you fed them.

I'm not trying to make any moral statement and I'm not saying that demons are after AluminumFoilRobots because they are a bad person....

I am suggesting though that human beings do not realize all of the actions and thoughts we have which serve to feed negative entities and offend more enlightened or "divine" entities. And this works against us when we enter the spirit world. (tripping)

This most definitely was not a trip in which I was holding on to any ego attachments or anything like that... I've had those trips, and they ultimately resolved in deep revelations on the nature of the universe and ended up being very positive and helping me as a person and just as far as DMT is concerned...

but this was really strange and weirdly un-DMT like. The first phase was characterized from an almost-complete lack of visuals, just minor dark and dim purple prisms in the upper part of my closed-eye scape, otherwise there was just BLACK... much darker than I've ever seen, let me say it like this - I had more CEV's before I ever hit the changa! Open eyed was the inky blackness becoming tunnel vision and obscuring my sight. The second phase, with visuals still was unlike any DMT experience I've ever had, and it only came after I had the idea spontaneously that it could be Satan and forcefully told "satan" to leave me the fuck alone. It was very realistic and yet still I was unable to see exactly what it was.. It was like the blackness being "peeled away" or just kindof evaporating into these forms that seemed to be reminiscent of ghostly plants and animals... I remember saying to my friend "Well, this is really weird, I've never seen anything like it but I guess I'll just go with it". At that point I was just happy that the darkness was lifting, even in the forms of ghosts - they weren't very scary looking.

I really don't think letting go was the thing to do. I actually felt what I can only describe as a "sinister" pull on my psyche TO let go and sink into the darkness. It was only a strong jolt of will that brought me to go inside and put on the bright light.

don't panic is the best and really only advice for difficult DMT experiences.

Hey I just wanted to chime in here. I started a thread this morning about a dark experience I had last night with a similar blackness and a sinking feeling.

https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/d...aspx?g=posts&t=32682

I was being taken into a hollow and the presence was definitely pretty malevolent and I was shown some imagery that I'd rather not see again. Did you have any auditory stuff going on? The Entity who presented itself to me was making a pretty weird gargling noise, it was repetitive and felt like it was pulling at me.

I can't really remember too much auditory stuff, and the only visual "entities" I saw was these shapes that appeared like bone-ghosts forming out off the darkness... But they weren't clear cut, and it was a host of them instead of a singular entity.

However the fact that you and I had such similar experiences in the same week leads me to some difficult questions... Could there be something in the cosmic "air" causing this? Just the inky blackness, thicker than earthly darkness... There was something lovecraftian about the palpability Of it... It was a physical shroud.
I find it interesting that the darkness lifted for you after you asked for assistence - it lifted for me when I commanded it to go. This to me proves that we corporeal beings have "rank" over these sorts of things.

What's weird is that I had been having WONDERFUL experiences prior to this, with changa. I'd actually been working on getting over my fear of DMT with changa and it had been working... With changa I can take a breakthrough dose with much less anxiety, the harmalas help me immensely... By I'd been going in every day... Could it be that I was getting greedy? Or is there possibly a physICal mechanism? I was reading on here a while back that there is new research stating that the dmt is actively drawn into the brain cells and remains there for a week after it leaves the synaptic cleft - could there be some sort of "saturation-point?" after Which one gets these strange experiences?

I don't really know, and my phone is gonna die soon si I have to stop but I look forward to this conversation!

https://wiki.dmt-nexus.m..._experiences_anymore_.3F

https://wiki.dmt-nexus.m..._trips_.2F_Dark_entities

Hope it helps!

It is indeed reassuring that one can banish or remove negative influences in Hyperspace although it occasionally I have been to disoriented and shocked to be able to do anything. This is where Mckenna's "don't give in to astonishment" comes to mind. I too found Changa to be a really good mechanism for reducing the fear of dmt and I have had some awesome breakthroughs on enhanced let alone harmalas. The caapi leaf doesn't seem to agree with me, I tend to get headaches and with the extract I made with 99% IPA, I had a few episodes of hypertension and I'm a really healthy fit guy. This kinda put the frighteners in me a bit so I haven't gone back to my Caapi leaf changa. I'm trying to figure out if it's the IPA although I make sure it's completely dry.

What do you use to prepare your mix? I have some acetone that was squired from a hardware store but I doubt it's purity and am considering trying everclear as a medium to make extracts.

I think dark experiences come and go for most people although I have had a few reports from friends about the inky blackness and I've read about it here in various places. I don't know if there is one but if there isn't I'm considering starting a thread devoted to the dark entities and peoples experiences with them. It would be interesting to see if we could actually identify specific beings that may be messing with us collectively. This is of course if you believe we are really contacting beings from other realms or dimensions. I'm 50/50 on it but my personal experience has certainly nudged me in the direction that it's a distinct possibility.

Id say that if you've been hitting the spice pipe every day then you body and mind probably does need a rest. The more of a break you take the more likely you'll personally discover that it was the right move. Moderation is key in most areas of life and with a substance as powerful as spice I think moderation cannot be stressed enough. If you're tripping while on Cannabis then I would say you may well have had enough psychedelics for at least a few days.

Cool. I remember this page now. What do you think about a thread devoted to the identification of various entities in hyperspace? An encyclopedia of hyperspace life of sorts.

Check this out.. https://wiki.dmt-nexus.me/Hyperspace_lexicon