Every time I visit the Nexus I'm overcome with guilt that I haven't given enough back. The Nexus played a big role in introducing me to much of what today I would regard as the most fascinating and worthwhile stuff in the world. And it isn't even solely hyperspace I'm thinking about here, I've always regarded hyperspace secondary to these other things you've shown me, viz. that all around me, as well as part and parcel with me, and yet sometimes/somehow just beyond the evidence of my senses, there are all sorts of strange things taking-place I'd never given much thought to: things like reactions, biosynthetic pathways, covalent bonds and orbital configurations; vital expressions such as those embodied in alkaloids, in phase transitions and recrystalizations. Looking through my inbox on here recently was really a trip down memory lane. I came across a friendly nudge, for example, from one of our more prolific sages, it was from a few years ago and it read something like: "brother, you've got to stop going nuts on the forum, there's nothing you can extract from your own urine!" I was going a little nuts that summer, what can I tell you? The point of all this is that it feels pretty good thinking I might finally have something to share that could be of interest to you all.

But first I need to get there... Recently, I've taken more of an interest in organic synthesis, which, I know, is off limits (and rightfully so) on the Nexus. But I should clarify that what I mean by synthesis here (biosynthesis?) isn't the type of thing we'd find in the Rhodium Archives or PiHKAL or something like that, (that stuff is just scary to me, Naphtha is already gross enough, thank you), rather that whole phenomenon of which I am sure most of you are already aware wherein we might, for example, extract the enzymes from phalaris, the same way these dudes isolated them from cereal leafs (cysteine? phosphate? they can't be any worse than NaOH or HCl!). Of course I understand that this is already old territory, and that I have no idea what I'm talking about. I also understand that all my nonsense could be rightfully smacked down in a second by anyone with the slightest bit of knowledge about it at all. But even still, you can't blame a man for dreaming, can you? Dreaming after some futuristic tek involving: tryptophan decarboxylase, N-methyltransferase, and dash or two of some common dietary supplements like Sam-E and P-5-P to round the whole thing off? And, from the tiny bit I can understand in all of this, it wouldn't even necessarily have to be anything as precarious as phalaris enzymes one used anyways. That is, hop on KEGG or the host of other sites like it, list after list of what all sorts of plants/organisms/etc. might do to your average everyday OTC amino acids. Maybe instead of dropping the bone on a sep funnel, one gets an agar broth capable of indicating the decarboxylation or methylation of amino acids on the part of the benign Mycobacterium you've started growing on it from a few drops of grocery store milk. Of course, no one should really do any of this and no one will, it's just interesting to muse after it all, isn't it? I mean, I apologize if it is all starting to sound too synthy, but imagine the possibilities working with decarboxylase and methyltransferase: "Do I start with L-Tryptophan today, or L-Phenylalanine? Should I go crazy and bust out the hydroxylase, methyltransferase that, and really try something interesting?" Anyways... You guys get it, it's old news and there is probably ten threads on it already, all of this was merely a long way of getting to thing I came across that might actually be interesting to you.

I feel kind of stupid now, having riffed on all that was besides the point, but maybe it's because I don't even want to speculate on this one:


--From Wikipedia.

So... How cool is that? Am I mistaken in thinking that's pretty cool? Am I mistaken in supposing there could be any relation at all between the n-dimensionality of hyperspace and the observed phenomenon that part of the pathway our brains take in metabolizing the spirit molecule involves the macroscopic equivalent of walking through walls? Here's some little computer simulation of the phenomenon (at the level of the electron, whereas apparently, the dehydrogenase of tryptamine works at the level of the proton):

I don't know, there seems something vaguely hyperspace-like about that to me. Well, I hope you found all this as interesting as I did. And on an unrelated note, check out the Ulam Spiral. For those of you who might not know what that it is already, read about it here. I'm sharing it on account of SWIM telling me they paid a visit to hyperspace staring directly into that thing (which, in many ways I suppose, embodies the mysteries of mathematics in pure image) and that it paid big dividends.

EDIT: Much better (10 Gigapixel!) Ulam here, although the internet is full of them.

Very interesting . . I wish I had more to add, but I appreciate this post.

I don't have much understanding of chemistry, so I can't really offer an opinion on much of what you're presenting here, but that's pretty fascinating if our bodies have to tunnel into another dimension to metabolize DMT. It makes sense.

Yeah, I don't have any understanding either, or, at least not much more than a day or two of reading Wikipedia can give you...

But all that stuff I was going on about before I got to the Quantum Tunneling, put simply, is just this idea that instead of doing A/Bs and STBs, maybe someday we'll be able to just squeeze the juice out of, e.g. phalaris grass, mix in some grocery store vitamins, and voila, we'll have DMT! It is ridiculous of course... But the idea isn't really to hard to get Shamasi, I probably shouldn't have supposed everyone spent a night on wikipedia like me, so let me explain those crazy a@@ words.

It works like this: Mushies, Mimosa, Cacti, Phalaris, the whole index of ethnobotanicals we've got on this site, and even things like bacteria: they all make DMT and Mescaline out of stuff you and I could buy by the pound from the Grocery Store: amino acids like Tryptophan and Phenylalanine.

You see, inside of the plants/fungi/bacteria, and, of course, inside of us too, they're all these enzymes.... So, for example, I said above "decarboxylase," that's an enzyme, and what it does is, when you mix it up with TryptOPHAN (and some other thing called SAM-E), it makes tryptAMINE, and I guess that's a chemical reaction called a "decarboxylation."

So, then.... You take your tryptAMINE, and you mix it up the other enzyme from the plant called "methyltransferase" (and some other thing called P-5-P [all at the grocery store, I promise!]), and that "methylates" the tryptAMINE into METHYLtryptamine (aka, NMT).... I guess that's a reaction called a "methylation," (and I'd suppose that also means if we mixed amphetamine in with that enzyme instead of tryptamine we'd get meth-amphetamine, but who knows?) Anyways... Finally, we mix our METHYLtryptamine with more methyltransferase, and, voila, we get DI-methyltryptamine, (aka, DMT).

It's basically the same way we make serotonin and dopamine and stuff. But the crazy thing is, there are other enzymes too, like I mentioned "hydroxylase," well, hydroxylase would add an OH onto our DMT. I'm not sure I understand any of this right, but for some reason, I think it would add this OH on either what's called the "4 position" or the "5 position" of the DMT molecule, so we'd either get 4-OH-DMT (Bufotenin) or 5-OH-DMT (Bufotenin). The point is, between all these enzymes, and other ones I'm not even talking about, you could make all kinds of crazy "substituted" tryptamines. You could, for example, mix our new 5-OH-DMT back in with the "methyltransferase," and it would "methylate" the OH on the 5-OH-DMT, and give us 5-MeO-DMT. And besides all this, if started with phenylalanine instead of tryptophan, and then you could start building up towards Mescaline instead of DMT. If you started with carboxylic acid of amphetamine, you'd start building up towards MDMA, and suff like that. And just so we're clear here, I'm not saying any of us would ever do this, or have done this, or could do this or anything. I'm just musing with you, you know?, I hope that's okay, I don't want to step on any toes.

Anyways, the thing is, it is probably insanely difficult to deal with enzymes. Otherwise all the smart dudes on here would have teks galore already showing us how to use them. They must be really fragile, or not last very long or something. But in that paper I linked to above, the ways the guys got enzymes out their plants didn't sound /that/ much harder than an extraction tek. But I'm sure I've got it all wrong. It's just cool to think about is all.

And then with the tunneling thing, just like those plants take tryptophan and build it into DMT, when we smoke DMT, our brain has enzymes that know exactly how to tear the thing apart (the reverse of building it up, that oxidate it and break it apart and stuff). The tunneling thing was just saying, some weird thing happens when they do this, where it is like they just break through chemical barriers that don't make any classical sense, like walking through walls would look to us here on the macroscale or something.... So... I hope that helped explain it... Let's hope an Enlightened member will hop on me straight on all of this enzyme business. If I'm explaining it to you it's only so I can try wrap my own head around it better!

I'm a homebrewer so I know a bit about enzymes. Turns out that grain has enzymes naturally, so when the grain is crushed and hot water is added, the enzymes convert the starch to sugar. Different temperatures activate or deactivate different enzymes and create different sugars; manipulating this process is the art of wort production.

Would be fantastic to be able to apply the same process to this different field since I'm all set up for that already.

enzymes work on specificity. Enzymes in our body do indeed hydroxylate and methylate all sorts of molecules, but if you are thinking about taking an enzymes that works on the a nitrogen atom (as seen in amines) and using that same enzyme to work on a hydroxyl moiety you won't get a response.


still though these things are as cool as they seem. it blows my mind that his complex balance of chemicals can vape some dmt and have that happen.

This is some of the craziest things I've ever read. I've always known brains had some crazy stuff going on. But never thought about like quantum physics playing a behind the scenes role in a mechanism for getting through activation barriers, like....

beingasm.

Thanks adorno. my whole day has been made much more enlightened with this info, and I plan on spreading it to all of my friends who have tried spice or any tryptamine for that matter.

I suppose we've got two subjects going on this thread (tunneling/biosynthesis), and that's my fault. But I wasn't thinking of just any old enzymes here, I was thinking of those mentioned in the documents I attached, viz. those found in phalaris. The decarboxlase in phalaris, with pyridoxal phosphate, yields as much as 1000μMol decarboxylate per mL / per hour. I wouldn’t know how much the enzyme’s observed kinetic constants could matter, I mean, doesn’t this figure tell us everything we need to know already? The methyltransferases in phalaris, with the additional substrate of S-adenosylmethionine (and so with the additional product of S-adenosylhomocysteine) yields as much as 2200μMol methylate per mL / per hour. Again, the enzyme’s observed kinetics are available, but what else than this would we need to know, other than maybe ratios of dimethylations to methylations we could expect to pull at different stages in the reaction? Given these figures, and assuming there is some way of flushing the products from the enzymes (microfilters and a vacuum could work for this, no?) as well as then add additional substrate, I don’t understand why enzymatic synthesis isn’t more commonplace. I mean, all the info on their extraction/separation that I can find would seem to suggest processes not too much more complicated than those for alkaloids. So... I guess I'm just wondering why, because obviously it is, this is so unfeasible?

"Quantum tunneling for protons has been observed in tryptamine"

Where's the Smiley for "my mind has been blown"?!? Thanks for putting this information together.

EDIT: and sorry I don't know about the questions you've asked with regards to enzymatics...

Very interesting post.

Though a few things are beyond unaccurate and I'd like to share some of my (not very astonishing) knowledge about molecular biology:

If you have an enzyme like a decarboxylase than this enzyme works specifically for 1 or maybe 2 substances and ONLY for them. You can't just jam in any other acid and it will just decarboxylate it. The binding sites in enzymes are like a lock where you also can only find 1 fitting key.
Furthermore producing enzymes isn't at all cheap or easy. The health hazard with synthesizing DMT or other alkaloids synthetically is probably lower than working with genetically manipulated organisms (as you would have to do if you want to go the biosynthesis route).
In general you'd do it like this. Find the Genome of the Organism that does what you want to do in nature (for example of the Bufotenin-toad which has the Hydroxylase that puts a Hydroxy group on the 5-position of DMT). Then you need to buy the restriction enzyme which lets you cut the sequence of the DNA that you need out of there. Then you put that sequence into a plasmid which you put into a bacteria like E. coli (this is widely used in biotechnology). Then you can add your DMT, turn the bacteria on and the enzymes will put a 5-OH on the DMT making it bufotenine. Then you need to extract your product from your bacteria. This would be necessary for each step of the reaction. I don't know if you can put a handful of enzymes into E.coli, let them express (produce the enzymes) and then do all the reactions one after another but what I know is that molecular biology is highly delicate. You need very exact thermostats because you are dealing with living organisms and some of the chemicals you work with are very very carcinogen and dangerous.

Another thing: 4-HO-DMT is Psilocin.

And if you mix amphetamine with an enzyme that methylates Tryptamines than you will not get Methamphetamine because it will not fit.
Think about it this way: There are tons and tons of alkaloids that have a primary amino group (-NH2) floating around in every living body. If the organism needs to methylate one of them to get another compound and the enzyme he produces to do so methylates all of them even the ones that don't need to be methylated than that would be bad news wouldn't it?

Hope I could help.

This is all very interesting theoretically.

Though it doesnt seem like someone is able to pull it off with an amateur set up in a safe way. Would be awesome if it would work.

this thread is of relevance:

https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=21752

Thanks Endlessness (and Nigl), I was hoping to hear from our resident phalaris expert on this one. I think I'll take this part of the discussion (biosynthesis) over to that thread. Perusing it, however, I found it was mainly bound to the genetic engineering of yeast and/or bacteria to accomplishing the task. MetaCyc, BioSyc, etc., seem to suggest that there are all sorts of bacteria each of us could collect, identify, and culture from our own backyards using nothing more than some agar and some amino acid decarboxylase/methyltransferase/etc. identification stains, e.g. Mycobacterium vaccae, which, e.g., exists just about everywhere and supposedly has a pathway of tryptophan to tryptamine, amongst many other usefulls. You mention on that thread that the reason it wasn't locked is because we aren't talking about BS like "cyanogen bromide," and this is my whole interest in the thing as well, the process, in my lukewarm understanding of it, needn't necessarily involve anything more volatile or hard to get than a simple extraction tek would. Anyways... Regarding that thread again, and regarding your comments here Nigl, I'm not talking about just any old enzymes, I'm talking about those already identified in phalaris. And I provided a link to a document above which tells us just about everything I could imagine we'd need to know about these enzymes. So... I'm going to take this over to the other thread. It's my own fault, but let's keep this thread on the topic of tunneling from here on out!

The tunneling would explain certain phenomena experienced with the actual breakthrough of a trip, and how consciousness is able to be transfered through space.(though perhaps only for a small distance through your own nervous system?) but you would be moving at the speed of light correct? which would account for the time warping

Edit: there should be a way for scientists to test this, then we could make some better hypothesis/theories.

Lately I have been seeing so many synchronicities with this forum and my own thoughts, I love that about this "place". Anyway- I was just thinking about this. Thinking about the various tubes I have seen people connected to in visions, and the way I always feel like I am crawling back up to my eyes at the end. Also have had sleep paralysis trips wind up in places like the inside of my veins watching cells rush by complete with what I imagine it would sound like in there muffled and rushing. Memory of a science video + the creative capabilities of the mind, or actual transport? I'll never know, but there are already plenty of instances of transport documented already by others and my partitioned self.

It really does feel like light speed, or faster than that, or at least fast [sometimes].

This is what really gets me too, because at the same time I feel these sensations and have the desire to make possible physiological connections, dmt is for me so very manifesting. But to date the best way for me to describe sensory phenomena from lucid dreaming and astral projection/sleep paralysis is the buzzing or breaking down into energy that I feel on DMT. I would very much like to think that the dmt experience is percieved consciousness on a molecular level. This would lay down a strong base for the idea that all energy is tied to a universal consciousness.

Thanks im glad we can relate!
Peace!

Yeah brother... I couldn't tell you much about the whole thing, I don't think it involves anything moving faster than light, but then I think it's actually something even cooler than that, something having more to do with the way "fermions" behave differently than "bosons." That is... Where we've left one sort of physics and entered another sort of physics entirely. This "other sort of physics" being that same strange "quantum physics" these popular science shows we've all seen a million times never tire of caricaturizing for us thusly: a physics where a thing isn't ever in any specific place but rather only has a certain probability of being in infinitely many places at once, a physics where a thing isn't necessarily only itself but rather can be many different things at the same time, a physics where a thing can disappear only to then instantaneously reappear at an impossible distance away (suggesting movements through hyper-dimensions other than those with which we are familiar), and so on. The really controversial suggestion in the paper I linked regarding tryptamine, is that this "strange physics" isn't being displayed by a "fermion," rather by a "boson," something which, from what I understand, has never been observed anywhere else in nature.

Keep in mind though, it is something the brain must already be doing all the time, whenever it's breaking down serotonin for example, but the thing is, once we've shot the brain full of DMT or psilocybin or any other tryptamine, it would have to go into full overtime doing this, and so the phenomenon in question would become amplified respectively. It really is food for thought... SWIM's experience with the spice has so far, above all, been the experience of three-dimensional space exploding entirely: of walls becoming floors, of the familiar vertical/horizontal axes bending in ways suggesting "new" and "different" axes entirely, and son on. In the "strange physics," I don't believe things are represented in a 3-dimensional space, I could be wrong about this, but I believe they are represented in an n-dimensional, or infinite-dimensional space... So... If anything, the data we're talking about here would already seem to suggest "scientists have tested this." In other words, that their has been a physically observed/verified foundation given for what many of us have have experienced as an n-dimensional "hyperspace" (and this is, after all, the literal meaning of the word "hyperspace" ) corresponding to and parallel with our own everyday "classical" space. I don't know... All pretty speculative, but pretty fun either way.

"a physics where a thing isn't ever in any specific place but rather only has a certain probability of being in infinitely many places at once, a physics where a thing isn't necessarily only itself but rather can be many different things at the same time, a physics where a thing can disappear only to then instantaneously reappear at an impossible distance away (suggesting movements through hyper-dimensions other than those with which we are familiar), and so on"

Pretty awesome! Will do some reading on this, it seems like this could also play a role in explaining why psychedelics are infinitely manifesting, while not discrediting the idea of molecular consciousness/travel/altered time/space ratios ect.

That is to say, if and when the human brain, in its electrochemical materiality, is obliged, and by whatever degree, to obey another "strange" kind of physics than the physics it is "normally" obliged to obey, it is probably reasonable to conclude that it would, in its comprehension of sensory datum, etc., begin approaching things more from the standpoint of this "strange" physics than the "normal" and precisely to that degree.

Tryptamines seem to be one of the most fundamental filters of "perceptual interpretations?"; to me it would make sense that when using DMT or other tryptamines that it could have many strange "laws?" due to the changed filter of interpretation. But I often see geometry using tryptamines which relates to our classical laws. I really need to do some longterm research on nuerology/chemistry/physics/quantum mechanics and other strange physics. Thanks you really have made a great contribution.