*In this post if there is something specific I'm wondering about I put it in brackets (a). I know this is a long post but I would REALLY appreciate if someone would actually read through and try to reply as people on this forum are very intelligent.

I'm sure this thought has been brought up tons and tons of times but I'm still at a loss for this one. My entire life I just believed in the rationality of science and observing reality directly. I felt if something greater existed it would be reached regardless if we contributed, yada yada. After some psychedelic experiences I rethought this and believed in God (not in a religious sense) but felt as if I was just convincing myself.

I'm just wondering people's personal views on it. I know there are patterns in everything regardless but I feel like if you focus on things a certain way while observing things become more "real" but that could just be a medium between channeling our short lives with something extremely changing, fluid, long lasting and trying to gain as much information as possible. Complexity and simplicity of systems, where minimums and maximums, zeros and infinites, beginnings and ends, etc. really intrigued me.

Started to feel like everything had it's own inherent language... English, Farsi, Chinese symbols, ancient languages and hieroglyphics, slang, personalities, were all SYSTEMS of control, power, manipulation, ways of hiding or revealing things, conserving or giving energy, etc. Sometimes wondered if it was all just a big conspiracy by a group or elite with a hidden agenda... (a)

Feels like everything has layers. Like increasing dimensions, 1, 2, 3, fractal (all in one and no place until I get lost in thought and can no longer understand it in my current lost or deluded state). Everything is a lie. Everything I read gets me further lost in my own entrapment or frees me for a second but this is eternal... These thoughts are manifesting in every animal, every tree, every vein. Puns, metaphors, accents... they are all just part of a greater allegory that was deconstructed by the One source. Is this a Being? Creator? Someone who just randomly got higher than everyone and tried to take control for a benevolent or horrible purpose? Is it moving toward greater order? If so will disordered things break apart?

Then was the twisted part..... I realized we all have assholes (EXCUSE the language) and we all have entry orifices. This brought me back to a few lsd trips of which I realized I had only gone down a fraction of a fraction of a . . . of the rabbit (w)hole. Things were just systems of outputting, restricting, NAILING in energy. The entire body was a dam metaphor. OH MY GOD. Is there hope? Salvation? We symbolically grind dimensions of reality and truth into these grinders of reality and escape or try to in our dreams.

This is why when masturbating or having sex if you are an AWARE person it feels as if you can almost put the things around you to life with your feelings until you get tired and lose the buildup of orgasmic energy. For example, the anal cavity is stopping certain knowledge and physical defense mechanisms etc. from " being " hmmmm
Everything is a consuming being (b?) or not? Things are shot out of this grinder and as it loosens when someone is mentally or physically "raped" a potential of some sort is lost. The creative force in women is this energy being "fucked over" and going from WAKING to SLEEPING states of Rapid Eye (I) Movement (universal vibration in a layered "hierarchy".

My consciousness is shattered across the universe? This is quantum mechanics? Direct observation and belief of sensory input creating reality? All these "DMT trips" are just certain thoughts and feelings being dispered, deconstructed, realized, but can anyone truly collect as to not create a threshold? (c) But I get lost again. A Dali painting, Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand...

Universe and the cell at the fractal level? (d) What if it is just one mind eternally experiencing itself and dissociating into lower dimensions and why are all just trying to hold on. To one person the moment could seem forever and resonate to the most distant places and to the other it could be this eternal suffering (you live through it in a lower consciousness and basically become "shit" which is matter that has lost free will and free association? It's like that photo where this guy cuts a piece of bread and there is a cross-section that contains a part of the whole of the universe. So it's like a CELL (pris(on)(m)). You are POTENTIALLY "stuck" in the lower dimensional BREAD UNIVERSE crumbling and if you escape this "HOLE" the higher dimensional scaffolding can just cut another slice and this could be happening to the person slicing it themselves? (e)

http://en.wikipedia.org/..._by_Hausdorff_dimension (spiraling up) but getting lost in the void. the empty spaces. the holes.
http://imageshack.us/pho...ges/192/blackholee.png/
if you escape your universal "entropy" then your (w) hole can be like:
- increase in its ability to stretch and warp and gain alternative dimensions or find ways of escaping entrapment... the issue here is wouldn't that "hole" tear or require physical substrate to catalyze usage of this hyper-dimensional awareness? (f)

Now here is another question on my mind:
Back to this famous DMT are (T) ->
http://imageshack.us/pho...rln32mnr1q21qkzfch.jpg/
So, someone trying to conceptualize GODS and getting lost in the higher dimensional REALITY would configure a whole light being and blind themselves let's say by staring at physical connections of reality (ie. looking at the "LIGHT" or "ROCKS" rather than the philosophical understandings thereof). Or looking at a "light orb" when it is someone's PROJECTED EXTENSION OF UNIVERSAL EXTRAPOLATION and staring at the physicality of the manifestation? (g)

So in the above photo. The green bulbs are deconstructing FILAMENTS that are separating the MACHINE ELF being from the reality they are creating in their minds? They are holding the keys in their hands the 'entire time'... The rainbows are the flow of life THROUGH H(IS)(ERS) veins and external environment and deconstructing of the physical spectrum or ability of sense organs to perceive accurately. Conceptualization leads to transcendence in some sense? Are there people who just observe reality and create? Or is it more scientific based? (h)

Is there a creator? If so is that the same as God(s) or higher beings? If you imagine them do they exist in the universe outside of self. It's like these people bring me down from one higher thought and then they just SHIT ON ME for the rest of my life? (this is a big question). Like I was super high and realize all this stuff then get trapped and brought to a psych and put on meds and blah blah and their purpose is basically now to just stop me from being there so I don't REMEMBER that I'm already DEAD???? Wtf (Undecrypted chinese symbol)?

Also with the languages thing. There are certain understandings hidden in each language that many who speak them are not aware of but it's like this photo by Dali (ANTI-MATTER ANGELS AND HIS QUOTE:
http://imageshack.us/pho...i14takethyonlybego.jpg/
Take a look at this and the creation/destruction symbols. Also Jesus speaks to ABRAHAM in this photo. People use those words "abraham" because they speak english and don't understand but in PERSIAN and other languages Abra(h) means clouds and (h)am means of mine. So "Jesus" is speaking to himself (higher self) and the clouds are "raining" (tears, etc.) from within hims"elf" (lost the thought cause parents and society are doing everything they can to hide me from these understandings and ways of realization)

Also see the parallels in these 2 Dali paintings? Order-chaos of life insect like beings on dmt, aliens... ahhhh
http://imageshack.us/pho...-images/545/watchz.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/pho...34/salvadordaliapm.jpg/



Anyone think they can give this an answer?

Haha, I know exactly where your coming from. It's a lot to take in isn't it? As soon as your third eye opens just a tiny little bit a flood of questions and theories begin popping up until it gets so confusing you can't sort anything out. Having gone through it myself, I want to advise you to trust the process. You're clearing out your mental space by getting all of these ideas out of you. Eventually I think you will start to see how it all fits together.

In answer to your questions about God, the best thing I can say to you is your right. About which part? All of it, because God is all of those things you describe. How can he not be if he is everything?

I've been down a looong road with regards to figuring out the whole God thing, and whether I'm right or wrong I've come to a certain peace about it. I'll do my best to describe to you what I think I've come to understand, but there's about a 90% chance it will only make sense to me lol!


There was never a time before God existed. This is a concept that is absolutely impossible for us to comprehend and you just have to accept it before anything else to makes sense. God is the totality of all things and thus has always existed in a state of completion and oneness, but there is a problem with this. If you exist and have always existed, meaning you have no past which defines how you got to be who you are then God has no idea who or what he is; he only knows that he exists. If you want proof of this phenomenon I suggest you take 5 dried grams of psilicybin and ask the voice from the mushroom trip 'who are you for yourself?'. This is a practice Terence McKenna described and what you will come to understand if you do this is that whatever that voice is, it has no concept of what it is for itself. It is seeking to define itself through you, through each of us, but I'll get to that later.

This is a perplexing problem to the only being in existence, because if there is nothing outside of yourself to which you can compare yourself to, then you have no objective way to define who or what you are. Indeed in reality God only has an idea or concept of what he is capable of, which we can relate to the improbablity of quantum mechanics and why some phenomenon undergo what scientists call 'the formality of actually occuring'. God can imagine anything since he exists as the end state, or in other words God is the end of every story.

What is the end of every story? Love. It's that simple, so incredibly simple that I laugh when I think about how long it took me to understand this. God is love. I think we all know this at a subtle level, and you don't need to ever take a psychedelic, pick up a religious text, or anything else to 'get it right' with life. All you need is love, and if you're always trying your best to express it then you're 'doing life right', as it were. It's funny because we all intuitively seek love, it's instinctual and yet as far as an evolutionary trait, love is highly irrational for survival. Yet none of us are ever satisfied in life, EVER, if we don't find love. We'll even pretend we've found it even when, deep down, we know we haven't. How many times have you sold yourself short and just accepted whoever would take you as being in love? I've done it more times than I care to admit.

This is how I think this works. Since God is the totality of being, and since being is love, God is in a constant state of falling in love with himself over and over again. God has no objective understanding of how he got to be who and what he is, so he dreams up scenarios about how he MIGHT have gotten to be what he is.

This is, in my opinion, what Terence McKenna meant when he said 'the transcendental object at the end of history casts shadows of itself backwards through time'. When we consider the history of our universe and how according to science there was an explosion and it took billions of years for the universe to cool enough for gases and particles to form, and then billions more years for matter to form, then slightly less time for planets to form, then less time for single celled organims to form, then less time for higher organisms to develop, and still less time for talking monkeys who are capable of incredible acts of love. As the spiral gets smaller and smaller, we can start to see God staring at us at the end. Humans represent a huge evolutionary jump in God's game of self-discovery; with the invention of humans God had found a way to express himself in creation as an organism capable of great love, both self love and love for others, which essentially is the same thing.

What's cool about this though is God is extremely economical about his condition. He is trying to understand who and what he is by living multiple lives at once, or incarnating as individuals, to try and understand love when you don't know what your supposed to be looking for (which, ironically, is yourself; you're playing hide-and-seek with yourself). We are, quite literally, love trying to find itself in a world that is nothing but love, and we STILL can't seem to find it most of the time. This has to do with developing an individual ego, or a false sense of identity. On the one hand, it's important for God to forget the entirety of who he is if he is going to be able to explore himself subjectively, yet on the other hand the ego represents the veil which makes us view our world as seperate and mostly hostile, so you can see how it's a double-edged sword.

So it's like a game. There isn't really anything at stake and no reason to get upset or fret about anything really, God has been doing this a long time and the story always ends the same: love. I also truly believe this is what reincarnation is all about too, it's like a gift, or a free-guy in a video game. If you live your life and get distracted and totally forget what your supposed to be doing, well you'll die and come back to life and start over. It's just like a video game in this regard, there is an objective to the game and there is no way to cheat, but you have infinate free-guys to keep trying until you beat it. Then, you'll go play another game with the same objective, on and on for eternity. This is the joy of being and how God never gets bored with being God.


I apologize if that was mostly nonsense. Nowadays I don't have many groundbreaking things to say because what I believe the message behind psychedelics are is just to live your life with as much joy and love as possible. It's a gift to get to be human, as temporary as it is, and if we all weren't so deluded in thinking we were our individual egos, this planet would be one awesome place. Sadly, God has bad dreams as well as good dreams in his endless journey of self-discovery, so we can't complain that we don't find ourselves in better circumstances. You just have to work with what your given, and we have all the tools as humans to get the game of life right, on the first try, if you don't give yourself and your power away to the trappings of the game world.

I hope that helped you Lusense.

Very good post Tek I seem to be coming to some the same conclusions as you I have had alot of the same insights recently.

One that keeps recurring is we are here so god can live through us,and it seems to me god may like it better if we are not aware of these things.I say that because I think it would be a purer experience if we are unaware of the game,and no one would take life seriously if we all knew for sure we were god.

I am not saying it is wrong to explore or find the truth maybe that is what we are supposed to do.

Well you know Dethrone, there is this Buddhist saying that says: "If you see the Buddha on the road, kill him." This saying has a couple of different interpretations, but the one that I've found that resonates with my experience is the one who finds out the truth spoils the game, which relates to your intuition about God liking it better when we're not aware of it. Jesus spoke similarily about this when he said "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

I think it has to do with the difficulty setting of the game. We all know the more challenging something is the greater the reward at the end, and like I said in my original post nothing is really at stake for God in this game it's all reward. People like Jesus and Buddha arrived at times on the planet when the majority of humanity forgot how to look for God so they tried to give clues about to how to look, not just give away the entire game! It's interesting how both of these religions have been strict with their doctrines up until just recently with the rise of the internet, now we are thinking about these religious concepts differently for the first time in history.

One would think that was part of the plan for humanity, but that's just speculation. In any case I think you may get more 'points' if you can express love without a need for some deeper understanding about what your purpose is on Earth because in that way it's truly a selfless love. If you love after you discover that's what your put here for, well then your just doing what you know your supposed to do. However, if you love and you have no idea that's what life is about, once life is over, I imagine that's a greater surprise to wake up to. Just my opinion though.

I suggest taking a break from tripping and thinking about all of this far out stuff, but that's just me I guess

Well I'm just sort of upset because I feel like at some point I was a collected consciousness of either everyone or a huge group of people and then they closed my channels off cause of a couple small mistakes.

Perhaps your looking at it wrong. Maybe you were 'closed off' for the same reason that Dethrone was talking about; how God seems to enjoy the game of life better when we're not so aware of what's going on. It makes for more of a challenge that's for sure.

I think this is also why it's so hard to bring information back from hyperspace. On a different level, the collective level, you already know how this game is going to go. Since the game isn't over yet, why would you want to ruin the surprise of what's going to happen?

I think the blinders are important, but lord knows I balked at them many a time so I feel you. I kept thinking that a truly benevolent God would not keep vital information from me, but I was humbled when I was reminded that God is often considered a parent, and who am I to tell he/she/it how to behave? A child cannot understand why it's parent keeps it from sticking something in an electric socket or putting it's hand on the stove, yet the parent does it for the child's own good. When the child is ready, the reason why will be told but before it's ready there is no possible way for it to understand. I think we're in a similar situation.

Trust the process Lusense. The old alchemical legend about turning lead into gold was, imo, an allegory of turning ignorance into wisdom with the perfection of the human soul. When you put your feet on the path, it's an irreversible process and it has stages, one of these being the negrado which in other traditions is called 'the dark night of the soul' which is when nothing makes sense and you don't know who or what to believe in. It's an important step. You've spent years accumulating certain life 'facts' which may be in direct conflict with the truth your slowly uncovering, and these need to be burned out before you can start to grasp at what's real. Once you grasp it the only thing left is to have a good laugh about it.

I'm with Citta on this one about breaking from tripping. An integration period is vital to attaining higher understanding after a truly revelatory experience. It works in stages like I already said, and you can't go to stage 2 without passing stage 1. When I first 'discovered' hyperspace for myself, I journeyed almost every weekend until I got bitch slapped by an entity for doing so. The message was incredibly clear that to progress further on the path I had to get rid of my limiting belief systems. At the time I didn't even know I had them! Looking back now, I see how I did. I had made a personal judgment about psychedelics and their relationship to spirit before I had really understood what I was talking about. I needed to get past my own opinions before I was ready for more.

All food for thought. Having these god-like experiences tends to carry with it a certain sadness, since coming down from such a trip is a drag to say the least. It feels like your abandoned and left alone, but I'll close with something an entity told me one time which I think sheds some light on it:

"See the problem with you is that you remember your perfect, but when you look in the mirror you don't see that person, so you think your lost but you just don't realize you've been right here the entire time. When your feeling lost just ask yourself... where do you really think you are right now?"

I loved your posts, Tek. They all pretty much resonate with the way I see things. And the fact that you took the time and effort to get your thoughts out in a helpful way...well, that's exactly why I love this community.

And Lusense, I've been down similar roads, so full of revelation and beauty, but also very difficult, leaving me rather scattered and grasping for answers. Like Tek said, you kind of have to learn to trust the process and know that you and the universe are an awesome combination, and you'll be able to understand and do impossibly amazing things if you can keep progressing from where you're at in an earnest and loving way. You may not find all the answers you want right now, but that's okay. In my opinion, the most enlightened person in the world is the one who's having the most fun. And I feel like the most beautiful and important things can't simply be understood in your head; they have to be experienced by your entire body and soul. Learning is obviously a big key to happiness, but learning is done by all of you, not just your mind. So those really happy moments, when life comes easily, and your heart is open to everything that comes your way...that's when you have it figured out. Cultivating happy, loving experiences is possibly the most important job you have to do for the universe, so learn to do it well, regardless of what the facts may be. Best of luck. It's good to stir the cup, so to speak. And while the swirling can be kind of intense for a while, everything will eventually mix together in the right way and settle down for a while...until you go stirring again.

You know, the first thing I thought when I read your post was: this person needs to do some serious integrating.

The place you are in right now is both scary and powerful. You've really shaken things up, and could build yourself any type of reality you want from there. Tek is spot-on though: this is a process, it has stages, you'll move through them at your own pace. Definitely trust in the process. Later, in retrospect, you'll see how necessary the bumpy parts were.

One piece of advice I'd give you is to stay positive. This will smooth out a lot of the bumps. All that worry about global conspiracies and everything- you'll see how pointless that is. Those clowns can only throw wrenches; no group of humans can truly steer history. Each of us plays our role inthe great human story.

I've been integrating for over 20 years... I still journey occasionally but am also still processing experiences from fifteen years ago. Reality is huge and confusing and complex, but there is a balanced way of living it that keeps those issues at a distance and keeps the important things front and center: love and joy, as stated above; and passion, something you do or enjoy or pursue that keeps you excited and interested.

If you do take a break to integrate, I recommend daily exercise-something like running or biking, that keeps your heart rate and other functions elevated steadily for a period of time. You'd be amazed at the clarity and perspective you can get from that place.

Tek: beautiful, all of it.

If God is love, then perhaps the opposite is true: Love is God.

Ya, I AM Love. But anyways thanks for all the insights. Sometimes I just calm it all down and am like OK everything is just as it appears. Focus on the world with clarity and you already know these answers.

You know what you need answered,
i believe the meaning to life to be to find your own truth, a truth in your heart something you can always believe even after looking at it from every angle.

Try making a day to smoke DMT and approaching that day put a lot of thought into these questions.

I think about the universe and earth and life seems to have design to it DNA code structure in atoms and life then i think about the big bang and i think what was before the big bang?

I believe in Aliens and other life in the universe but unlike some good friends Aliens do not come close to answering my question of where we come from, i believe we come from something non physical something as great or at least as great as every atom and force in the universe every vibration and everything all together.

I think of infinity and it is like an implosion of thought, but there has to be something that has always been, i mean we are just simply humans there has to be things we can not or will not accept, the world used to be flat!

Maybe we reside inside something that is truly infinite.
The Universe is speeding up expansion not slowing down.

I believe in a creator of being a source to life i do not believe that being/entity to be conscious like us, but i do believe that being to be conscious.

I believe i was ignorant when i believed there could be something or situation i could not imagine but now i believe in a god creator almighty.

I believe we are like him as we can create and we can make life we have the whole universe of strange molecular material at our disposal.

DMT helped me find my truth.

That is interesting Tek, but it sure doesn't bring me much comfort to think that God might be as dumbfounded as we are about existence. For this reason I much prefer the idea that we are being brought into existence, and that's why life is so painful. That birth is just an unavoidable agony and necessary evil.

I don't think I could forgive God if we're put through this shit just so It can know Itself, or even worse, that our damnation forms the constrast by which the Chosenites can recognise their blessedness.

I like your concise obesrvation Mowgli, the absence of labyrinthian speculation makes it strike a chord. May I add that we could be brought into existance then hunted down by the hounds of Heaven? ( Poet, Francis Thompson) and this nice interpreation http://www.angelfire.com/ga/paxceilidh/Hounds.html

It's my personal truth Mowgli, don't accept it if you don't feel it for yourself. I felt I had to reply though because I felt the exact same way when this information was first presented to me. I could not accept a God that didn't have it all figured out like the Christian deity is made out to be this all-knowing entity. I had to wrestle with this bastard idea like Jacob had to wrestle with an angel in the desert, and it ushered in my own personal dark night of the soul. I lamented my life as a cruel joke, that I was a puppet on strings for some invisible master silently manipulating me from the background. Even psychedelics offered little consolation during this period, in fact they made it the problem worse.


And then I got over it, or past it rather. It came to me on a trip one time. God wasn't a parasite just using my physical life as an opportunity to experience situations, God was in perfect symbiosis with me the entire time. Symbiosis is where both parties benefit equally, and the lessons I learn while on Earth God gets to learn them too and so we are essentially equal. God is like the Tao, he does not seek to exalt himself over man but equates himself with man by BEING man; by living from our perspective. This is how God is both perfect and imperfect, a paradoxical blend of opposites befitting the supreme being of the cosmos. God already knows everything, but he has not subjectively experienced everything. What else could you spend an eternity doing? Sitting on a cloud playing a harp? I don't think so, I imagine it's much more dynamic than that.


I'll ask you a challenging personal question: what type of God would you accept? What possible explanation for all of the joy and pain of life would satisfy you at the end of the day? I'm not trying to put you on the spot, but it's a difficult question to answer because when I ask myself I'm not entirely sure what my ideal version of God would be, even now.


You make mention of the shit we have to go through in life, and I infer from the way you wrote it you mean to say that life can be unpleasant. Why would God choose to allow suffering and bad things to happen? Remember, first of all, that he isn't really doing this to anyone but himself, and if God wants to know what unpleasantness feels like then that's his choice to create unpleasant situations (and I could make a case for how every situation is pleasant from God's perspective, it's only through the ego's perspective that God understands what unpleasantness is, but I won't digress here). We can say how unfair it is from our perspective, but that's sort of like a thumb saying how unfair it is that it got a paper cut and then blames the rest of the body for it's misfortune. Remember, also, that in every single story you've ever heard there has to be the good as well as the bad because part of the fun of any story is to see how the two sides interact, and you wouldn't know what good was without the bad as a contrast. It's simply the nature of our particular existence: we are learning lessons in duality and with that comes both pleasure and pain.


I like your idea about being brought into existence from an essential non-existance that we are experiencing as our lives right now, and I agree that that is happening (whether in a metaphysical sense or just in the sense that every day your approaching your own physical death). Indeed I think there is only ever birth; from the moment we were born into this world we were set on a path to be born into the next world. I'm essentially with Robert Monroe's viewpoint on the matter, who interpreted our existence on Earth as a type of very challenging school house, and it's entirely voluntary to come here. So again we find ourselves in a paradoxical situation where we as aspects of God signed up to come here to experience physical life, and once we're in it we cry about how much we can't stand it, and no one is more guilty of this than me personally. I imagine our psychosis confuses many of our hyperspace cousins. (I've been told specifically by an entity that I chose my entire life and if I'm not enjoying it then: 'who's fault is that?'


I feel like that was a little preachy so I apologize if you found it to be. I'm not in the business of converting people to some obscure philosophy, but I've struggled with the problem of meaning for a long time and this is the only answer that has ever brought me peace of mind about the issue. I know in the fibers of my body it's essentially right, I'm sure I'm way off on many of the particulars about it but the essential core of the truth is there, somewhere. But, as the disclaimer always needs to be written, don't believe a word I say if it doesn't line up with things you've been shown in your own life. I'll never be that person who has a truth to sell to other people, but whatever insights I gain I want to share as concisely and clearly as possible, for the benefit of us all.


I wanted to add one last thing that my girlfriend once told me coming out of a trip, and she isn't even all that spiritual:

"When you're the only one forever, what can you do other than to keep reminding yourself just how much you love yourself? The thought comes that God loves us so much that the only way he can express it is by being us, by living our lives as if they were his own. It's like looking at a doll collection and wishing so badly they were real, and just like a disney movie your wishing makes it so. But when your all-knowing, you know your just playing with dolls, but if you could forget yourself, just for a little while, you might be able to learn something new by pretending you were something else."