Hello,
I've done both MG and HBWR before only via consuming the plant material. However, I get bad side effects from this like muscle cramping nausea etc.

Is it really worth it to extract the LSAs,? Anyone know anyone with experience with this?

consider: plant sources have a slew of ergopeptines (also called ergotoxins), many of which are not psychoactive, but exert the visceral/somatic effects you describe.

IMO, HBWR are the only ones worth extracting. The MG are just to much bulk to deal with, unless you do CWE, and ololiqui exhibits the least amount of negative side effects.

thanks guys

hahaha benzyme, it looks like I should trust you, unless that Harmine/aline!

are these ergopeptines typically polar/nonpolar?

tigerstrike, Have you had much experience with ololiuqui? Is their their alkaloid content reliable?

In my opinion it is not worth doing LSA without doing a nonpolar wash and extraction from the seeds. There are very little negative effects with defatted extracts vs the raw seeds which have a nasty body load and contribute to nausea. Definitely extract.

HBWR you can definitely get the most LSA for your money with the least amount of plant material to deal with.

My main concern is vascoconstriction. Do such extracts typically cause this?

If not...

Can anyone recommend readily available NP solvents that are clean? Doesnt anyone worry about the cleanliness of these clandestine solvents?

I'm pretty sure that, while water and say, rhonsonol are not miscible, there are still small amounts of naptha that become dissolved in the water. Solubility is relative, its not a yes or no question, but a question of "to what degree is x solute soluble in y solvent"

For example, dipole-induced dipole interactions exist when a polar molecule and a nonpolar molecule come into proximity. The polar molecule induces a slightly polar charge in the nonpolar molecule due to the redistribution of electrons as a result of the ploar molecule attracting or pushing away electrons of the np molecule.

Cana anyone comment on this? Would this cause np solventsw to be slightly soluble in polar solutions?

And what about any other multitude of contaminants in something like camping fuel? (I am aware of the pie plate trick, but still)

Also, how would washing a polar aqueous extraction of LSA's with a NP solvent compare to soaking the seed pulp in NP solvent, allowing evap, and then extracting with a polar solvent?

I've also heard of extractions with rhonsonol being weak or a failure, because something in the rhonsonol breaks down LSAs. Any particular brands to avoid?

Thoughts?

Thanks everyone!

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought LSA itself was an ergine and therefore produced vasoconstriction all on its own. I have done cold water and lemon juice extractions and felt no difference between them and just munching seeds. Of course, maybe both of those processes grabbed unwanted alkaloids that intensify the vasconstriction?

I rarely see scientific discussion of this. Most of what I've read involves a lot of opinion and conjecture - so I'd really love to know some science on this as well. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong places.



ALSO... to combat vasoconstriction I take some niacin and ginko biloaba before hand - they're natural vasodilators

Thats what I was afraid of Pup Tentacle.

Now that you mention it though, I vaguely remember it being discussed in Scared Mushroom of the Goddess by C. Ruck, that initially when Hoffman explored ergine, it proved to be vasconstrictive when taken pure.

It has some good info in it but I dont have the book anymore.

I also got the notion that ergine wasnt very psychoactive, and basically gave up all my lysergadreams. Then I see this new forum and hey, looks like maybe I was wrong.

With the CWE and Lemon tek, I've done both, and my hunch is that you cant properly, completely filter the pulp because its so fatty. So I was thinking maybe the vasconstriction comes from tiny seed particles that pass through the filter in these types of extractions.

LSA themselves may very well be vasconstrictive. Anyone wish to refute?

not sure on the specific affinity values, but I recall the less active ergotoxins, such as ergometrine, exert greater vasoconstriction. LSA has weaker vasoconstrictive effects

So, for us non-chemists, is there a reasonable way to separate the groovy from the un-groovy?

it's going to require a column, which costs less than a GVG, and some bentonite, silica, or alumina. the solvents involved are methanol, dcm, or ethyl acetate.
it's also going to require a blacklight. d-LSA appears light bluish-green

The answer is yes and no. Simply do a nonpolar wash on the seed powder before extracting and let the seeds dry. Then extract with your alcohol or acetone and filter out seed mush. This gives a pretty clean product which can be evaporated to a powder or drunk depending on the solvent you used. The average non-chemist cannot clean it up any more beyond this point.

If you take the time to make a proper cleaned extract instead of gobbling down seeds or making crude water extracts, you dont have to worry about vasoconstriction.

Excellent Kash thanks. Any teks around on this?

I can't as of yet comment on whether or not extractions are worth it, but curiously I have done an ethanol soak of 10g Heavenly Blue MGS and it does not glow beneath a black light. My informal research has indicated that it should. Benzyme?

yes it should....but did you thoroughly grind the seeds?
of course, you can't just soak them, and expect to extract the alkaloids.
whether you're extracting from MHRB, SP, HBWR, mg, phalaris, or mushrooms....you should always thoroughly lyse (break open) the cells. That is your first priority (aside from safety).

I ground the seeds into a medium-fine powder in a coffee grinder prior to soaking. It has been several days now in 190 proof Everclear.

hmm, then there is no appreciable ergine content.
LSA in alcohol would fluoresce a light teal color when exposed to 365 nm light (UV-A, longwave..blacklight blue)

Ok. Well it couldn't hurt to drink it anyway right?

completely up to you

I've made my decision...and it tastes like very strong Gin might taste. I received the seeds as a free sample with another purchase I made recently and I was unaware that they were or could potentially be psychoactive. The extraction procedure is extremely straight forward, so I find it difficult to believe that if these seeds do contain LSA I'm not consuming it. I was using an incandescent black lightbulb, which my reading indicated is virtually ineffective.