..MMPA wrote: ..was this as a salt? ..the 2nd hand vaped PEA/hordenine/acacia report i had was the freebase..

I wonder what would happened if you smoked this alkaloid instead?

MMPA what you said you experienced seemed very similar to an MDMA experience. I have taken pretty high doses of pure MDMA, I don't know exactly how much but it was a lot (I know I should probably have weighed it) but still it was amazing. The whole feeling very happy and light while being warm describes MDMA quiet well. But the part that shows me that it is similar is the clenching of the jaw and not being able to stop smiling. Of course it seems to me that Phenylethylamine seemed to create very nauseating effects, while MDMA does not. And as for falling asleep I could never consider that possible on MDMA until you completely come off it. Though you said you did not have any insightful thoughts, I do believe MDMA can have some insightful insights to show you but not many.

Did you feel very "accepting" of everything?
What about any signs of dehydration? Or over heating?
You said your heart rate had been slowed down, so would you say it was a very stimulating experience? Or very relaxed?

Very interesting experiment though, you continually mentioned MDMA aso I thought I would relay some information your way about how they might be similar.

Sorry if my questions are pretty irrelevant but I find myself interested in how this compares with MDMA.

Reminds me more of amphetamine, it sounds a lot like a weak version of an amphetamine.

I heard a report of someone smoking some PEA... stimulating.

Actually, that was very helpful. The accepting feeling was there but then again, I was not in a social environment so I can't fully gauge that. However, I know that comparatively, amphetamine has a more "accepting" feeling and less physical body feelings than PEA. I didn't feel as if I was overheating or dehydrated. Also, I forgot to mention in the report that at first my heart rate was slower but later on it became much faster but not uncomfortably fast.

I'd say that the experience was unique in that I was able to choose whether it was stimulating or relaxing. I was able to sit completely still in glee (relaxed) and then decide to dance and I would have the energy (stimulating).

I say it would compare to a mix of MDMA (with less mental stimulation/empathy) and at the same time the relaxed feeling of smoked tobacco.

Dude you are fucking stupid I have seen a girl have a seizure from 2 grams PEA you are fucking lucky your body knows what an overdose is and got that shit out of you.

I am sorry but we do not need this type of advice here or anywhere, someone can get hurt listening to your advice of taking that extreme of a dose.

Heretic, thanks for caring about safety in the Nexus, but please, be more respectful, no need to call names or use curse words.



Would you care to expand on this case of the girl having a seizure? Did she have medical history of seizures? any other medication she was taking or condition that might have to do/

I don't expect people to follow in my footsteps. I took the precautious necessary (ensured I was not mixing chemicals, slowly increased dosages, controlled environment, took careful measurements, etc) and I don't intend on causing harm to anyone. In honesty, the "extremeness" of the dosage was not actually extreme to me, it's all relative to the chemical taken. I did not feel like I was overdosing or in any kind of harmed state so to prevent more negativity, I will put up a precautionary warning on the top of my post.

I am sorry for over reacting, a lot of emotion was dug up reading the post and it scared me to death when I witnessed it. She had not had much to eat the day and had drank coffee which is a known potentiator of PEA. She also had drank about 1 can of beer. probably weighed about 110-120 lbs. No medications that I am aware of nor history of seizures. Once again I apologize but 7 grams I can not believe you are not dead.

http://onlinelibrary.wil....1963.tb12816.x/abstract


for the beta PEA:
https://www.spectrumchem...l.com/MSDS/TCI-P0086.pdf

for the alpha PEA:
https://www.spectrumchem...l.com/MSDS/TCI-P0794.pdf


Consider that the LD50 for mice of betaPEA was 400mg per kg... and the LD50 for rats was twice that for the alphaPEA.
Now humans are not mice and rats, however the indication is that PEA is not particularly toxic.

The human equivalent doses of these LD doses is interesting to consider:
in a 60kg human (130lbs or so) the ld50 for beta dose is about 24grams...
in the same person the ld50 dose for the alpha is about 56 grams...

now let us briefly compare that to mescaline:
http://www.erowid.org/ch...scaline_datasheet1.shtml
for mice the LD50 of oral mescaline is 880 mg/kg, if we can compare that to the betaPEA then we can claim that the PEA is about twice as toxic as mescaline, which is hardly toxic at all.

So hmm, twice as toxic as mescaline? Sound bad right?
Lets compare that to Caffeine:
LD50 mouse oral 185 mg/kg... consider that according to the data caffeine is 4 times more toxic than mescaline and 2 times more toxic than beta-PEA.
And here is what is bothering me:

I am going to assume that MMPA weighs more than 100lbs, so that is 45kg. A dose which kills half of the mice* is (for beta) 18 grams in terms of a 100lb adult. 7 grams does seem like a hefty dose, but seems unlikely to be lethal or even potentially so.

http://www.erowid.org/li...e/pihkal/pihkal142.shtml

Seizures with 2g verses zero effects with 1600mg?hmmm

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6141619

So a dose of 125-200mg/kg beta PEA caused seizures in mice...
that is about 5-9 grams in a 45kg/100lb adult, 7 grams does fall into that range

but wait, there's more!
Caffeine and alcohol were involved in the seizure... caffeine decreases GABA. This makes seizure far more likely and Caffeine is known as a trigger for seizures because of this.
Alcohol also affects GABA systems...
Taking caffeine and PEA together does seem capable of resulting in a seizure according to the DATA, alcohol seems to have been a factor as well in the case Heretic relates.

While I disagree that 7 grams of PEA seems like a lethal dose, it does seem potentially dangerous in terms of seizures and may have severe consequences in combination with other drugs that affect the GABA system.

PEA is a lot like amphetamine, which also has a risk of seizure at upper dose levels. It also reminds me of the Amphetamine analog Bupropion, also known to cause (dose dependent) seizures.

PEA is interesting and not particularly toxic but is potentially dangerous. MMPA, if you insist upon continuing to experiment with large doses of PEA, could you please instruct someone you know and trust to post in this thread if this experimentation kills you or hospitalizes you?

I worry that if that happened this thread would not reflect that and we would not have the whole story.



*MMPA did not specific which PEA he used... beta or alpha?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9013285



I have read of alpha-PEA being sold as PEA...

I used PEA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenethylamine
Neither the beta nor the alpha group is methylated, they only have hydrogens on them.


EDIT: Ah I see now. I thought we were talking about whether the alpha or beta positions were methylated on phenylethan-2-amine (which is the PEA I am talking about). To clarify, I am talking about phenylethan-2-amine, not phenylethan-1-amine. The 1 isomer doesn't even look related to any psychoactive compound I know.

Insightful insight is insightful

The 1-isomer is structurally related to the dissociatives ketamine, PCP and MXE, being a benzylamine derivative. That is NOT to suggest that it is remotely likely to have a similar pharmacological effect!

Good info Albert I like it.

Very interesting. I've only experimented with phenethylamine via raw cacao; It may be because of other stuff present in the cacao, but it always felt like a very relaxed version of ecstasy, but stimulating if I wanted it to be or needed to be active.

The only thing I'm curious about is the amount needed to saturate the mao enzymes present in the body... Of course it would probably vary from person to person based on individual metabolism.

But also, once this point is reached I think this is where the dosing should begin. For example: If the body only needs 4g for mao-inhibition; then another 100mg v.s. 1000mg (or 2000mg) could be a big difference..

I disagree. Claiming MDMA has limited "ability" to "show" you insights is quite unfair to the compound and more importantly the human mind. MDMA is an extremely important tool which can be utilized in psychotherapy or even used in combination with trance states and hypnotherapy. I'd like to think MDMA has the capacity to allow one to look inside themselves just as well as a lot of other popular entheogens.

MDMA can help individuals to access extremely introspective states of being, and having been in states like this induced by MDMA it seems the places of even what this "non-psychedelic" can allow one to explore are seemingly infinite and actually quite profoundly insightful, in my experience.

Apologies to dig up an old thread.. but after coming across it yesterday I thought people may appreciate me contributing my own experience - as I was surprised to read that aren't more who've tried this.. its powerful stuff.. there are some in melbourne who are into it - I was given it by friends who just called it "chocolate" and told me it was "more powerful than MDMA" (combined was apparently the most "deeply personal" experience they'd ever experienced.. toxicity of this combo I'm unsure of so I would read up on that first)

..A couple years back I had a very powerful experience from just half a gram of phenethylamine. A friend and I split a gram of the white crystals in two and dissolved each half into a glass of water.. we downed it quickly. Taste was very bitter.. not so pleasant.

Within 5-10 minutes we were feeling effects strongly.. Hot flushing sensations were felt "inside" my head and huge rushes flowed all through my body. Everything was tingling.. physically speaking was very pleasurable. Visually I found it actually had a lot in common with low dose mushrooms or DMT.. there was a feeling of a heightened perception of our surroundings.. the kind of "20/20" feeling visions tryptamines provide..pixelating and patterns...and a "character" to the plants and grass around us. Everything was alive in a more obvious way than usual. At points I felt like I might need to be sick but managed to hold it in..

the experience was very overwhelming in parts - but I was also going through a hard time emotionally over that period and felt I couldn't quite open up about how I felt. All in all a powerful experience.. half a gram was very strong I don't know that I'd go much higher than that (frankly the thought of 9 grams scares the hell outta me).

Is it plausible to suggest a Rue+A.Adunca tea?

Wiki suggests 3.2% in phyllodes and tops.
https://en.m.wikipedia.o...n_psychoactive_alkaloids

Hi acacian,
so what's this "chocolate" stuff do you think?
Regarding your phenethylamine experience, what was the source of that, eg. isolated from a plant, or synthetic pharmaceutical? Btw I hope no one's getting confused with phenylalanine which is an easily purchased amino acid.