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Suggestions for my journey to reach permanent enlightenment? Options
 
joedirt
#41 Posted : 3/12/2012 11:13:42 PM

Not I

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SWIN wrote:
Hello moyshekapoyre,

your honest question shall receive an equal answer:

Substances won't make it permanent (Vovin) yet can make visible what is already permanent (Rgeular Dudess). Put your attention on what is always and so remain. Start with this as a daily practice and as time goes by everything should be clear.



^^This.

My personal answer to the origin parent is this.

Forget asking the Nexus as a whole for this kind of help....or any other message board. Even Buddhist message boards are just filled with people spouting opinions. Most here are A) not interested in enlightenment, B) don't believe it's possible, and C) will still in light of A and B give you their opinion as though they know. Rolling eyes

My honest advise is to pick a few of the posters that you have resonated with and send them a PM. Not only will the conversation be more positive, but you will most likely receive the advice you are looking for. There are indeed people here that can help you.
This advise applies equally well to other spiritual forums. Try to find someone that has what you are looking for, or that you believe can point you in the right direction and seek their honest advice....without all the background noise.

Peace.

If your religion, faith, devotion, or self proclaimed spirituality is not directly leading to an increase in kindness, empathy, compassion and tolerance for others then you have been misled.
 

Live plants. Sustainable, ethically sourced, native American owned.
 
moyshekapoyre
#42 Posted : 3/13/2012 2:44:51 PM
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I just want to say thank you to everyone who has taken the time to read this thread, and especially to those of you who have responded.

I know this is a long journey, and a hard one, and I am just beginning.

You have all offered ideas that I've found worth examining. May we all learn to escape our delusions. (It's funny, my dad always used to tell people that anger is self-delusion, which I never understood, but this is what I've come to believe as well... and in fact everything but love and bliss is self-delusion.)
 
Saidin
#43 Posted : 3/13/2012 3:42:15 PM

Sun Dragon

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You can never achieve permanent enlightenment. It is a never ending, eternal process. You can expand your enlightenment, reveal more and more of the mystery, but never reach the end of what there is to know...
What, you ask, was the beginning of it all?
And it is this...

Existence that multiplied itself
For sheer delight of being
And plunged into numberless trillions of forms
So that it might
Find
Itself
Innumerably.
-Sri Aubobindo

Saidin is a fictional character, and only exists in the collective unconscious. Therefore, we both do and do not exist. Everything is made up as we go along, and none of it is real.
 
Rustt
#44 Posted : 3/17/2012 2:52:38 AM

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Enoon wrote:

Why focus on death or even what happens afterwards?
Personally I don't think death is anything special. It's the life you live before you die that is. But I guess whatever floats your boat.



I agree with you about life being the important part. One of my favorite quotes seems to fit with this theme, "The key to immortality is first to live a life worth remembering."
 
moyshekapoyre
#45 Posted : 3/18/2012 4:44:10 AM
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Perhaps one can achieve enlightenment (or let's just say the higher states of consciousness) most rapidly with neurofeedback...

http://www.newmindcenter...m/Neuro_Meditation.html

 
effigy11
#46 Posted : 3/18/2012 5:47:24 AM
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Why are you seeking to begin with? What is it that keeps you from seeing your goal?
 
Rustt
#47 Posted : 3/18/2012 6:54:37 PM

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moyshekapoyre wrote:


Very interesting! The Nexus is an eclectic mass of constant amazing... Very happy
 
moyshekapoyre
#48 Posted : 3/18/2012 9:34:31 PM
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@effigy11: I am seeking the ability to access the fullest potential of human consciousness at will.

What is keeping me is lack of time, lack of money (for neurofeedback), and too much ego.
 
Rgeular Dudess
#49 Posted : 3/19/2012 8:23:13 AM
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moyshekapoyre wrote:
@effigy11: I am seeking the ability to access the fullest potential of human consciousness at will.


Then it's not enlightenment (in the buddhist sense) that you seek. You're seeking something impermanent which exists in this world as something definable. Actually all that can ever be found by the means of seeking will be something that will be gone eventually. So what is it that's aware of this seeking and frustration going on?

moyshekapoyre wrote:

What is keeping me is lack of time, lack of money (for neurofeedback), and too much ego.


You see time as time for the very fact that you (the seeing) are not in time. Ego can exist only within time and thought and you're neither in time nor in thought, you're the seer of these concepts and forms.

Lack of money is just another story within time and thought which is effortlessly seen as "having a lack of money in order to achieve something". If you think it's not effortlessly seen as such then that belief is seen effortlessly as "I don't think it's effortlessly seen as having a lack of money". Anything that appears is experienced automatically.

You're seeking yourself in forms. But seeing/awareness is "beyond" forms. Seeking is what keeps you unhappy. There's only present experiencing and you're trying to evade this simple fact. But there's an awareness of this. You can deny it if you want, there's a direct awareness of that denial as well just as there is a direct awareness of this text.
 
rOm
#50 Posted : 3/19/2012 10:13:45 AM

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find a guru in an ashram maybe ?
Not here is all I know.
Smell like tea n,n spirit !

Toke the toke, and walk the walk !
 
moyshekapoyre
#51 Posted : 3/19/2012 1:07:09 PM
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@Rgeular Dudess:

Thanks for your response. I appreciate your considerable efforts here, but unfortunately, it is not helpful for me --I already have looked at nearly every Mooji video... you are saying nothing new to me. You can play semantics until the cows come home, but you are not helping me to see things any differently by doing so.

Clearly, the experience of Self is not accessible solely through thinking about/changing my language. I wish it were that simple for me. Perhaps you could describe what happens for you when you think in your prescribed ways? Or are you so far beyond thinking in ways that can be described so that others can understand, that it would be pointless to even answer the question? So far, that is how you come off.
 
moyshekapoyre
#52 Posted : 5/9/2012 11:31:35 PM
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Well, let me first apologize to Rgeular Dudess. I am learning to better appreciate your words of wisdom. Which means that one day I may be just as off-putting (or on-putting) as you are to others.

Anyway, I have had some beginnings of success in my attempts at achieving mystical states without drugs, and so I would like to share with you a meditation technique that I have found recently on my own. Basically, you do simple meditation for a few hours as soon as you wake up (try to wake up really early), just to calm your mind and brush away all thoughts. When you start feeling "altered" and deeply relaxed beyond any normal relaxed feelings, stay with that for a bit and try to relax even more, then, you may lie down to go to sleep again, but be very aware of the process of drifting off to sleep. It takes a little practice, but soon you will start to find the moment at which sleep begins is also a moment in which your soul can leave your body, consciously if you allow it. One thing which can help as your sleepiness begins to produce vivid visuals, is to envision yourself standing in front of a dimensional portal, and imagine the infinities in/beyond the portal. Once you can very vividly imagine the portal, walk through it. There may be a frightening sensation of your soul leaving your body, but just let it happen (promise your ego that you are not abandoning it forever, you will be back). Once you leave your body, you can have mystical experiences, such as samadhi, etc., quite naturally and without effort.
 
Parshvik Chintan
#53 Posted : 5/12/2012 8:47:33 AM

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i just read this in a book, dropping ashes on the buddha and it reminded me of this thread so i thought i would post it

Quote:
One student said to Soen-sa, "many people have come to Zen as a result of their experience with psychedelics, or "special medicine" as you call it. is taking psychedelics good or bad?"

soen-sa said, "the question of good or bad is not important. it is neither good nor bad. what is important is why they take this medicine. do you understand?"

another student said, "what do you mean by good and bad?"

soen-sa said, "taking the medicine in order to understand is good. taking the medicine because of good feelings it gives you is not so good."

"then its possible to come to understanding through special medicine?"

"it is possible. many people are attracted to the name and form. they take this medicine and for 5 or 10 hours it is the same as death. they have no hindrance from their bodies and their bodies desires. it is like a dream. there is only free action of their consciousness, the free play of the karma I. so they understand that life is empty. life is death; death is life. they understand very clearly that fighting and differences among people are unnecessary, they're just the result of wrong thinking. they no longer desire to be rich or successful. rich or poor, success or failure - it is all the same. it comes to the same thing when you are dead."

The first student said, "you've just convinced me to take special medicine twice a day!"

soen-sa said, "taking it once or twice can be very helpful. taking it more often is dangerous. it is very easy to become attached to special medicine. you are already a zen student. so you already understand that life is empty; you understand what the true way is when your body is sick, it is sometimes necessary to take a strong drug. but when you are healthy, you don't take drugs. so the special medicine cures some sicknesses. after you take it, you may have many attachments. you don't feel like working. you don't want to make money. you only want to relax or work in the garden or listen to music or enjoy art."

"not make money? heaven forbid!"

"this is an attachment to natural-style or hippie-style living. it is no good for a zen student. many people take special medicine and understand themselves. but their understanding is only thinking. it is not attainment. true attainment of emptiness means that all thinking has been cut off. there are neither likes nor dislikes. natural-style living is good. plastic-style living is good. there are no attachments to anything."

the third student said, "soen-sa-nim, many different people practice zen. i practice zen, businessmen and lawyers practice zem. i have an attachment to natural-style;they have an attachment to big-business-style. you don't say to them they must give up business and only practice zen, and you don't say to me that i must give up natural-style and only practice zen. it's just difference karma, isn't it?"

soen-sa said, "your life is natural-style; that's good. businessman-style living is also good. what is important is why you are living this way. if you desire money for yourself or if you desire natural-style for yourself - this is no good. if you cut off your desires, then business is not business. it is Bodhisattva business. natural-style is not natural-style it is Bodhisattva action. so you can use business or natural-style living to teach all people the true way."

"you can teach natural-style living?"

"yes, teaching natural-style is very good as long as you are not attached to it. natural-style living is very high class Bodhisattva action."

"why?"

"true hippies have no hindrance. if i have no money, thats ok. if i don't have a house or a bed, thats ok. i can sleep anywhere, i can eat any food. my whole life is freedom. i am free to do anything. having no hindrance means not being attached to anything. so this hippie-mind is very good; it is very high class mind. but many young people are attached to the hippie-style or natural-style living. this is no good. if you are attached, then hippie-style becomes a hindrance. you must cut-off all thinking and all desires for yourself. then you will soon attain enlightenment. the hippie-mind is only one hair's breadth away from enlightenment. if a hippie could cut off all his attachment to being a hippie, he would soon discover 'oh, this is enlightenment!' one of my first students had long blond hair, which he wore in a ponytail. one day i said to him 'i think it would be good if you cut your hair.' he said, 'no no, i like my hair the way it is.' i said, 'if you are attached to your hair, you cannot obtain enlightenment.' 'is this true?' 'yeah, enlightenment is complete freedom. if you are attached to your hair, then your hair is a hindrance. if you have a hindrance, you cannot obtain enlightenment.' 'okay, then i will cut my hair.' 'fine. now you don't need to cut it.' so he learned that being a true hippie is having no attachments. afterwards he did hard training and soon understood."
My wind instrument is the bong
CHANGA IN THE BONGA!
 
moyshekapoyre
#54 Posted : 5/14/2012 5:23:09 AM
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That's DEEP.

I have to say, it's almost too deep for my shallow mind.

I wonder about how any lifestyle can be ok and what it means for morality to be completely different from what we all imagine. I.e., polluting the planet is ok? This zen master says business lifestyle is ok as long as it is not for money, or something silly like that. Is anyone in business for any other reason, really?

Perhaps I should get this book...
 
moyshekapoyre
#55 Posted : 5/14/2012 7:08:22 AM
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What do y'all think of this guy U.G. Krishnamurti? I've never found anyone as interesting as him... but he also sounds a bit insane. Like an ayahuasca trip that was too intense and which never ended or something.
http://www.ugkrishnamurti.net/
 
Parshvik Chintan
#56 Posted : 5/14/2012 7:16:59 AM

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moyshekapoyre wrote:
I.e., polluting the planet is ok? This zen master says business lifestyle is ok as long as it is not for money, or something silly like that. Is anyone in business for any other reason, really?

Perhaps I should get this book...

polluting the planet just makes it harder for the organism polluting it to survive.
as far as the businessman goes, the key quote is
Quote:
if you cut off your desires, then business is not business

the attachment is the problem, whether to natural-style or business-style - or attachment to the planets atmosphere remaining static Razz



i am not familiar with U.G. krishnamurti but his quote
Quote:
Tell them that there is nothing to understand.

seems reminiscent of the whole "360º" aspect (particularly zen) to enlightenment, which alan watts has some great talks on, if i can dig them up..
My wind instrument is the bong
CHANGA IN THE BONGA!
 
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