Why don't we make more work of our dreams?

I used to be an oneironaut. I was into lucid dreaming. I kept a dream journal and was able to get 2 lucid dreams out of hundreds. It was disheartening, so I gave up, like I tend to do. I am a quitter. I do not have discipline cause when I was a child I was never encouraged or appreciated for who I was, my uniqueness. I was never really told that I did a good job, even if it sucked. The mental abuse was systemic.
Maybe that situation lead me to become interested in the weird. Maybe it is all one big escapism. So I tried to escape into the dream world. I ordered my Nova Dreamer and the Course in Lucid Dreaming, read the Laberge books. Tried to merge Castaneda's work and Monroe's work into it as childish notions go.

And the result was that I started to understand my dream language and what kept me busy subconsciously. Some good came out of it that I could take back to the waking world. I was having motorbike lessons and in my dreams I rode the bike and fell into the turns with trust and how that felt I could take back to the real world. I was able to trust the bike not to fall over.

And then I could not take it any further. Why? I cannot really say. The effort was paying off even in this small way. But it took so much energy. Also, as a teen you are preoccupied with sex. And according to Castaneda (Don Juan rather) dreaming and sex utilize the same energy. I could tell that was true. When you...relieve yourself your dreaming recollection runs backwards. But if you abstain your dreams become vivid and you can remember them much better.

I guess the short-term pleasure won it over my spiritual escapism. But we sleep one third of our lives iirc. And during those hours of sleep we dream a significant percentage. So the time spend on dreaming in our life on earth is very much.

So why don't we as individuals do more with our dreams? Then I really knew what I was preoccupied with. Now my inner world is alien to me. I don't know anymore and have not known for decades what goes on in my sleep, in my dreams. I miss it. But with the childhood trauma's I believe I did not want to know so much anymore. Maybe that is why I let it all slip.

And why, as a society, do not appreciate dreaming work much? Are we sop scared of our dreams? McKenna asked why is DMT not Big News? Likewise I ask, why aren't dreams Big News?

Why are there no lucid dream centers in every major town and city? Where you can go and learn lucid dreaming or be hooked to a machine that helps or guided into it? I don't know. Our society is totally screwed up. We dream so much and people ignore it and go to work with a bad mood because they refuse to remember their dream and deal with the source of their chagrin.

And people ask why the world is so insane. And the rule here is to use language civilly. Otherwise I would use extreme hyperboles.

Maybe it is just a little too easy to buy mhrb, load a pipe or machine and fly off. They tell me the trip is different every time, that you see truths that can shift with each trip and that you learn not to hang onto dogmatic beliefs.

But from dreams you DO get usable info on yourself, what keeps you occupied subconsciously, you do learn the structure of your dreams, your personal dream language. And you learn to explain dreams veryw ell. I have used my insight into dreaming to help people explain dreams they had and I always got a lot of gratitude back because what I explained made much sense to these people, without imposing my personal bias on their dream. They were able to sort it out themselves. That is why I don't like ready made dream books with explanations on what it means if you fly in a dream as a bird or a in a plane, that sort of stuff. It is all crap.

Now and then I think to myself that I should pick up dreaming again. I used to look forward to going to sleep, it was adventurous! I knew I had REM sleep coming, that I would have at least 5 dreams I could record. My record was 7 distinctive dreams in one night. I believe some of them were non-REM dreams.

But I can't seem to find the energy to actually persist, I lack the discipline. If DMT will never get me fixed answers, then why should I bother? Please someone help me out here, do you actually get something out of it in the sense of finding out, like in my case, why I cannot muster up the energy or discipline to start my dreaming journal again and get into dreaming again? Or do I use another substance for that sort of self-help stuff?

Thanks a lot for any advice! My nerves!

Our society is one that (unfortunately) places much of its value in the material realm of the physical. States of consciousness altered from this one can be threatening to a materialistic paradigm. Now with DMT (not linking DMT and dreaming ), the government can simply make it illegal and restrict access as best as they can/feel necessary to prevent extractions. With dreaming on the other hand, the government can't exactly step in and say, "no you can't do that," so the "next best option" is to ridicule, mock and subjugate them. Many people don't ever remember any dreams, nor do they seem to care because it's not put up on the pedestal it deserves. Dreaming is such a peculiar phenomena and because people can often detect that their subconscious is fueling it, and that they potentially can retain some amount of control over the dream, dreaming's "real factor" can often seen to be going down. In terms of using other substances for dreaming, you may want to look into calea zacatechichi.

The reason DMT won't give you fixed answers are because there are none. Fixed answers are a construct of the ego. As humans we tend to like to create stable realities (our sense for what constitutes being real) with fixed answers. We dominantly use and/or logic; something is either this way or that way, and can't be in opposite states at the same time. DMT likes to show you realities of both/and logic; things are both this way and that way; God/the void/the universe is both hot and cold, big and small, everything and nothing, the alpha and the omega, good and evil; in hyperspace, two "objects" can be in the same place at the same time. Fixed answers are indicative of analytical reductionist thought. Fixed answers are harder to arrive at when things can be both one way and not that way at the same time. You'll want to tend to suppress or dismiss one side or the other, but you should try and keep these polar opposites balanced in your mind. Fixed answers also leave little room for growth, and it seems to me that DMT can often be about growing up spiritually and learning to relinquish concepts from spiritual childhood (most adults are spiritually like children).

I'm also interested in some the other aspects of your post, but this is the part that most interests me--and partly it's because I identify with it: I feel it describes some of my early experiences, and how that caused some problems for me.

I think the result of those experiences are: 1) You crave the approval of others, and that's a position from which low self-esteem, low-confidence, and low-personal-power flourish. 2) And so you become any variety of a "quitter," and unable to empower yourself on your own steam.

And the solution is to realize that INDIVIDUAL empowerment comes from your own acts (and, interestingly, THAT is the lesson one should learn as a child from proper encouragement from OTHERS)...and so what one needs to do is BREAK the habit of being a "quitter," and realize that the only way to "fill up" one's "internal void" is to begin to ACHIEVE--through a process of learning and development--for ONESELF, divorced from a feeling of earning approval of others.

In a way it's simple, and it a way it's difficult to see. One must re-learn the inherent value of self-development, and re-learn the fact that it really is SELF-development--that nobody else is involved, and that nobody's approval/appreciation/adulation is involved or, in the end, really means anything.

The problem is that can CONCOMITANTLY give a feeling of insularity--which can feel "wrong." But it's not wrong. Part of us is about CONNECTION with others, and part of us is about being INDIVIDUALS who are not directly connected with others. We need to keep the parts straight--and the start of that is learning that DEVELOPMENT is mostly the INDIVIDUAL part.

Anyhow, that's just some of my personal/internal/and quite private stuff that I've had to learn over the years for my own benefit. Maybe someone out there might identify with it and be helped by it.

Probably for the reasons already stated. I think the people who actually remember them simply don't believe they are significant. They may chalk it up to random/residual brain activity, especially if they've never had high level lucid dreams. It's a shame really. Such fertile ground for consciousness exploration and healing.



Masturbation is a huge source of emotional energy drain and does affect dreaming. Especially as we get older, we tend to drain our energy in many ways, whether it's masturbation/too much meaningless sex, defending the ego/self-image, indulging in anger, worry, rumination, food, addictions, work, relationships, etc. As Don Juan says when talking about saving energy/hunting power:

A hunter uses his world sparingly and with tenderness regardless of whether the world might be things, or plants, or animals, or people, or power. A hunter deals intimately with his world and yet he is inaccessible to that same world. He is inaccessible because he's not squeezing his world out of shape. He taps it lightly, stays for as long as he needs to, and then swiftly moves away leaving hardly a mark.

There are many yogic and shamanist schools of thought that teach abstinence and elimination of sexual distractions as a path to enlightenment. Even nuns and monks are celibate so they can stay "pure" and "holy", although I suspect they don't understand the process of sexual energy transmutation.



Good point! Imagine how much longer we would essentially be living if we were conscious (lucid) during even some of that 1/3.:idea:



Man, I feel your frustration. :evil: Life can be so distracting and energy-draining sometimes! I think if you were to start saving up your emotional energy you might develop enough momentum to take you to where you want to go.

I made a post recently in response to someone who was trying to quit addictions, based off of Castaneda's "philosophy", maybe you could modify it to your situation. Just replace "addictions" with "distractions" or "indulgences". After all, many things in life are addictions and it's our over-indulgence in them that drains us of our energy/will/personal power that we need to persist in that which is important to us spiritually.

I'll repost the relevant parts of that post here:

I tried living that way. I mean what is described in Castaneda. I adapted a system from it to stop addictions. Using that system I was able to stop drinking alcohol and coffee. But living like a warrior is the task of a lifetime. I could not maintain it. And I know others who have tried and fallen off that wagon. Without a teacher I don't think it is possible for Joe Average.

Energy saving or manipulation is something I have striven for. But I am in a paradox. It is not I don't want to do all the things suggested, but I cannot bring myself to it. That goes for dreaming, but other things too, that I know I have at least an above average ability in. Writing e.g. My imagination, well, I don't need DMT to have an active fertile imagination. I can make up a novel within minutes if I set my mind to it. But to write it is a different thing.

Writing, well, most things require discipline. But if you don't have discipline to muster up the discipline, what do you do. All these tips are helpful only if you have some kind of...ability I guess, to do a hands on approach, to have a commitment gene that propels you forward. Me I am just so annoyed a lot that things require so much work. To be happy should not need to require so much painstaking strategy. We seem to have to build ourselves up from scratch. Why is happiness not an innate and present ability? And why are so many of these things uncomfortable? Cold showers? Really?

I do not want to put me through a lot of nasty things to become energized and happy. Maybe because I have been though so much already as a kid. I don't want to push myself anymore.

So it bugs me I cannot be a warrior. Or a Man of Knowledge. Or a shaman. Or an oneironaut again or a writer. I have awesome books live within me, but it requires transpiration. I started writing stories.

As an 18 year old I even ordered a course in creative writing. You had to send work in to a teacher for evaluation. But I did that twice and then could not muster up the trust and whatever is needed to persist anymore to send in more work. I am lacking something fundamental. I have potential, but no ability to transform it into something real.

And so I think, why do people not dream more, Dreaming is something that can provide insight into what is missing. I'd be happy if more people were dreaming and keeping journals, even if I can't muster it up anymore. We are supremely powerful entities but that same power is what you have to conquer in order to use it for something positive. I am writing myself into a depression here so I'll stop.

I can relate, Visty. But honesty, (and I suspect you already know this) it's all in your head. Not that that makes it any easier! I've found that if I just stop assuming it's going to be so much work, and just start doing the Work, it's not as difficult as it seems. One small sense of accomplishment leads to motivation to continue, which leads to another sense of accomplishment, then more motivation....and on and on, till you have momentum. After a while you no longer need motivation, it becomes natural. Kind of like visiting the In-laws.

Oh, and the cold showers are not that bad, it's just a 1-2 minute burst of cold water to end your hot shower. After doing it a few times, most people actually start to look forward to the endorphin rush.

great thread. Theres nothing wrong with being an oneironaught - its more opportunistic than escapist. Last night I took galantamine (even though I went to bed at 4am) before bed because I knew my sexual energy had not been drained by succubi or friends sleeping over, and my week is structured in such a way right now that only half the week I can have uninterrupted sleep. It only becomes escapist when I don't want to wake up and then the day is gone (oops guess I wont be participating in society today). I do what I need to do, and I can accomplish my goals without becoming a slave. I'm not brakin any laws, and there is nothing illegal about legal oneirogens. Recal was really great though in the morning - even after not wanting to wake up, which I can attribute to not being drained. I don't forget about my yoga and exercise, and the sun. Take care - keep it real - live it up - find your bliss
Do you remember when in your life you were the most excited? that was the you you're looking for.

I remember my days as on oneironaut were exciting. I would go to be eagerly. And I learned things about myself through dreaming. I was young but could see the potential of dreaming. I bought a memo recorder and pout it in bed with me, half under the pillow so I could find it.
I trained myself to wake up early so I could grab it and simply unpauze it and record my dream. Later I would play the tape and write it all down. That was exciting, it was like fishing in your own subconsciousness. I learned, with the help of LaBerge, my own dream language. At the moment I don't even recall what I found out. I should look it up. And if I get back into dreaming, I can compare it, see if after decades my personal dream language has changed.

But usually, at the end of my day, I so tired and had so much grief from todays' world that I can't bring myself to do a few last steps before sleeping, like saying 10 times out loud 'I will remember my dreams tonight and wake up slowly'. I just want to pass out.

Thats for me back then was all it really took, saying that, with intent. It would be good to learn what bugs me again. And see if I still dream a lot about the A-Team :-) For some reason these guys, my hero's as a kid, crept showing up in my dreams. I was usually observing things they did. So my dreams were not ego-action. I was more an observer and sometimes a participant.

Well, I'll do some tries on my dream recollection again.