For a second I thought I was having a nightmare that I was on a Christian message board, but then I saw the F word.

I am not saying that it is objectively part of reality, but mentally. The fact that I just read what he wrote is now part of my reality, what he talked about has been written down and passed on, so its part of reality. You might not be able to grasp any of what they are saying in your hands. But you cannot deny the fact that IT EXISTS WHETHER IT BE IN WRITING OR IN SOME OTHER DIMENSION. This might be a very skeptic way to look at it, but all I was trying to say is we need to open to all possibilities and that MIGHT BE ONE, give me proof that its not. And when you give me that proof I will agree that its not part of reality.

I cannot erase what humans have created. They decided to make that cult, and he decided to write it, they brought it into reality.

I don't mean to offend in any way, but I completely disagree with you. Anything another human being deems respectable. You should respect it just even a little bit. There is no need to pass anything off as "silly".

Not trying to objectify you. I wish you well.

If you are interested in some work I have compiled on the various entities that get encountered in and out of Hyperspace, try this thread: https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=25020

So what makes your silly story valid over my silly story. Ain't we all in this ward together?????????????

Oh and let me add a big FUCK, so you know this ain't no christian party........

Just messin with ya.

Aha...well logic doesn't work that way. The one that makes the claim must bare the burden of proof,and not the other way around.I don't argue that it doesn't exist as an idea(unfortunately),but that doesn't make it real.It is still fiction,and nothing more until proven otherwise

Following your logic no ones experiences here are valid, and your brand of logic is one that speaks for everyone. So no one has proof of anything they saw on the other side, or of the feeling that it could have been another place or that is distinctly real. You see how that logic goes for you, and if your "belief" of what logic "is" is leading to you who you truly are. But you can no longer use your own internal experiences to validate your perspective of who you art thou. People take on their own burden, and nice people dont force it on others.

In the dreamers book of the dead there is an account of people using ceremonial dreams to communicate in the afterlife with people who are stuck in the realities they created for themselves - for many it was a simple version of the religious trap so many people fall into. The people had to dream the dead into some new creative spaces to open them up to their own potential to create their world. Just - makin conversation

I believe we're all infinite, but obviously we all take off our meat suit at some point.

To me is does though, it exists in idea. Therefor reality holds the potential to have it exist here. We might not be able or capable of experiencing it but the possibility is still there. What differentiates the world of ideas that and the present experience. Well the present experience is a product of the world of ideas.

The argument I am making is of course very broad and allows many controversies inside of it and is in constant conflict. But all I trying to say is that people get to stuck on this "possible" "impossible" kind of stuff. Of course I except the possibility that everything I just said it futile and you are completely right, it is all fiction. But retaining a certain amount of open-mindedness and skepticism can be healthy. Everything we consider true is false and everything we consider false is true.

So there is my proof, the world is completely subjective or open to the potential of any number of dimensions, and realities. Subjective might not be the right word to use, maybe we could say the world is the center power of potential. And perception is just a catalyst of that potential and in harnessing this potential we can bring certain aspects of that "potential to create reality" into existence.

I have no wish though to force any of my opinions on you or in anyway try to change your beliefs, I hope I am not coming across that way.

It is each of our experiences that prove to us of our beliefs. I was grown up on the lutheran doctrine, and then for awhile became one of the nay sayers. Just certain things I have seen and experienced brought me back around. Well I have a VERY unorthodox belief system. Growing up christian this is what I base a lot of my religious feelings on. Although I consider the bible a moral guide book, but as being written by man and not directly handed to us by God, the bible has so obviously been corrupted by the works of the evil one, entities, forces, what not. I see peoples confusion when I use christian terms to describe a broad "good" or "evil" lets say as angelic and demonic. But let me say I do not consider the bible a historical fact book.

I believe even Wicca's among other "heathen" religions, believe in good/bad forces and so this is not entirely a christian concept. Sorry for my word heathen here, but hope you get the point.

And I find solace in the similarities of religion and cultures. "The only reason we have a satan is because this culture copied this culture copied this one." Well maybe that is because it is such a valid point?

I highly respect and appreciate all sensible opinions on here, and I know each of us probably can get a little non-sensical at times. I know I have, and it is good to get constructive criticism. I hate it though when people chime in and only say all you christian fags are retards, you dont know what your talking about. We all must accept that others have different beliefs, and yet try not to be too preachy about our own beliefs.

Have a here is how I see it tone, instead of a this is how it is son attitude and tone.

But there seems to be more than a few christian(and/or one God believing(I consider myself more of a believer in one god guy over any particular denomination or religious sect.)) pyschonauts here and so I think this is a very valid discussion.

Ok let me make something clear for you.There is nothing called "my brand of logic" and there is nothing called "your brand of logic".There is logic and objectivity,and there is wishful thinking.If you see some things under the effects of a hallucinogen and are so desperate to believe they are true, you are very very naive.

All we are is a bunch of cells.We are not eternal (as least our consciousness isn't), we die one day and boom that's it. It is a hard-to-accept truth so I kinda understand people like you and the rest that want to believe in "something more" in order to cope with the idea that we are nothing.But you cannot try to use logic to justify your beliefs because they aren't logical, and you certainly can't expect to say those things outloud to people and have them accept what you say as true.



That doesn't even make any sense. Nothing you say makes any sense really...the difference between the world we live in and some dude's imagination is that one is real (with matter and energy and all of that) while the dude's imagination is just electric signals in his brain that exist in the real world.

There is no "potential" for anything,I don't even know what you are trying to say here tbh. And you obviously don't know the meaning of the word scepticism...

Okay so apparently you understood nothing of what I said. Let me try to clarify this for you.
"The present experience is a product of the world of ideas"
This makes perfect sense. We live in a world right? You cannot deny that you experience things on a daily basis. So let me give you this example which might clarify this for you.
We experience "the chair" right? And a chair you and I would say is a piece of wood with four "legs" and a back to it. Well one day a man brings in a three legged chair. Does this fit in with the definition I just gave? No, but we still view it as a chair. What if it had no legs? Still a chair? Yes quiet so.
This is because the chair in the physical sense (the present experience) is a product of the IDEA called CHAIR. Or the perfect chair that resides in the world of ideas.

So you say the difference between the world we live in and a mans imaginary world is that the real one contains matter right? And his imagination is just produced by electricity passed between neurons?
This I am sorry but I will have to disagree with and let me explain myself.
So we have five senses with which we perceive the world. We can only perceive the world through these five HUMAN senses. And what are senses made up of? Electric currents passed between neurons. In fact I find no proof of matter because I as a consciousness am directly acting with "matter". The only way I perceive this thing you call "matter" is through my senses.
So what about dreaming? I see hear and feel stuff that aren't there as you would say, but in fact the way I perceive all of that stuff just so happens to be the way I perceive this reality as you call it. So there is no definite line between the imagination and "reality". In fact it is all the same because we perceive them the same way as we perceive anything else. This causes you to doubt the very foundation of the human experience because we are not intact with the REALITY of REALITY but we experience the HUMAN REALITY of REALITY.

Okay now moving on the "potential" apparently you don't know what potential means so let us take a closer look.
po·ten·tial   [puh-ten-shuhl] Show IPA
adjective
1.
possible, as opposed to actual: the potential uses of nuclear energy.
2.
capable of being or becoming: a potential danger to safety.
3.
Grammar . expressing possibility: the potential subjunctive in Latin; the potential use of can in I can go.
4.
Archaic . potent1 .
noun
5.
possibility; potentiality: an investment that has little growth potential.
6.
a latent excellence or ability that may or may not be developed.
7.
Grammar .
a.
a potential aspect, mood, construction, case, etc.
b.
a form in the potential.
8.
Electricity . electric potential ( def. 1 ) .
9.
Mathematics, Physics . a type of function from which the intensity of a field may be derived, usually by differentiation.
So potential is the possibility of experience.
Referring to what started this conversation in the first place. You say that whatever that certain cult beliefs to be true is gibberish. Because is it not completely objective. It is an impossible idea that they belief that that stuff actually happened.
Okay before we move on to that lets define another word you said I didn't even know the meaning to.
skepticism [skep-tuh-siz-uhm]  
skep·ti·cism   [skep-tuh-siz-uhm] Show IPA
noun
1.
skeptical attitude or temper; doubt.
2.
doubt or unbelief with regard to a religion, especially Christianity.
3.
( initial capital letter ) the doctrines or opinions of philosophical Skeptics; universal doubt.
UNIVERSAL DOUBT, is what I am getting at here.
As I said before some open-mindedness and UNIVERSAL DOUBT can be healthy. You get to caught up in what you believe, and to stuck to it. Our human senses LIE TO US about the reality of things so I have to reason to EVER trust my human senses, or logic.
Okay so in being healthy skeptical of things you can accept that the reality you experience is not what it tells you.
So now back to potential. What ever that cult believes to be true is POTENTIALLY true due to the amount of SKEPTICISM our reality presents us.
What they believe happened could have happened who are you to judge such things. Your whole experience of existence is SO primitive as a human being. We are dealing with IN-HUMAN being and ideas when we talk of religion and cults.
It is beyond any human to understand something that is not human, BECAUSE we are HUMAN.
So you say it could not exist, but it has the direct potential for existence and therefor is already in existence. Because the idea lives perfects in the "world of ideas". When I write down "a bird flew" a bird really did fly due to the fact that the IDEA "bird" and "flew" at that moment made an action together called "a bird flew". It is in existence because the reality we live in is only a product of certain PERFECT IDEAS. Because as we both know our reality is not perfect in any way shape or form.
Okay and one more thing. Suppose our human senses create the imperfection in the world and through our human senses we indirectly perceive the world of ideas. So reality outside of human perception is completely perfect but due to our "being human" we can not help but subjectively create the three legged chair.

So basically what I am getting at is that you have no idea what reality is.
So who are you to judge what is real and what is not? Are you God? Nope just some human on planet flying through space.

What you have made clear to me:
you think you're better and that some people generally are batter "because you know how it is"
You think your understanding is just "the way it is" and everyone should accept "the way it is"
you think you know who you are
you think you know who I am, when in fact I'm an atheist ninja- who does not cling to such "labels"
you can't even spell skepticism
You think I'm desperate and have no compassion for what its like to lose someone you love and that I am naive to think its part of gods plan so that I can go on with my life - how apathetic
You think you have proof we are not eternal, but that is an outsiders perspective and your own consciousness has never ended - or you wouldnt be communicating now
you're right about everything - cause you believe it, and it only matters to you - this is a very personal world
You think people do not accept what I have to say, I do not accept this because I have friends who hear me out and agree on some level or another
you like to believe that you can put words in peoples mouths but don't fully understand people have their own truths - a naive belief that will lead to negative interactions if you are not punctual enough
You dont seem to think you create the world you live in to any significant extent, what are you still doing here on this planet then?
You seem to have the answer to the sophomoric question "why are be here" and that logic is a past of that - do tell. What I think is that its important for those involved in an interaction or exchange to all come out of it in positive standing.
You are currently at odd with the mini society of this thread here, just to force your own perspective?
Cause its nothing more than a perspective, try to get your point across without words or pictures or anyone else's perspective, how are you gonna do that mister brilliant?
You say there is no potential than where did that word come from - you've created a deixis by speaking vaguely out of context, and while no one is understanding you - you're coming off as arrogant
You admitted you don't even understand

this is all clear now, thanks
edit: I realize in responding in such a way I seem hypocritical since I also took you're misunderstanding out of context. I understand not being able to get what people are trying to communicate - I give people a second chance also - that was nice of you. I hope we can get past our arrogance and come out of this in a positive way, potentially with some transmuted experiences, whoever the catalysts may have been. I like the lets be humble humans idea, can we just go with that one?

where is this certainty you speak with coming from? how can you know that consciousness doesn't exceed the body?

"we die one day and boom thats it" ... you speak this as if its absolute gospel. are you speaking from personal experience? or somebody else's? just because when a person dies their body shows no evidence of consciousness through the nerve receptors in their brain, doesn't mean that consciousness just blanks out like a TV set being turned off.... maybe it does, but we can't rule out other possibilities. near death experiences are pretty good insights into the realms beyond body. how are you REALLY to know that consciousness stops if you haven't had the experience?

that was an incredibly arrogant post the way you attacked the other guys for posting their beliefs. everyone here is free to speculate on these forums and for me the notion of eternal consciousness is not so ridiculous either... i'm sure i can speak on behalf of many others here at the nexus too on this one. And furthermore the notion is not simply something i adopted to make myself feel more uncomfortable about my impending death, it is just an absolute gut feeling and clarity of being that i gained from my out of body experiences, particularly with the main sacrament we deal with here at the nexus - and who are you to really tell me otherwise if you don't have any proof other than chemical evidence confined within the body after death.. when the whole idea of eternal consciousness includes exceeding the body at death.

This so called "logic" that you believe yourself to be in such strong possession of isn't everybody's idea of logic and you have to accept that.. and maybe not be such a douche about it to those who hold different beliefs. To me it seems quite logical that the brain is more of a mediator of consciousness to give one a physical experience, and that our consciousness is not merely confined to our physical body, but works on a number of different realms which we may not understand until we have died on this plane. I believe consciousness after death can't be measured by the materials and chemical activities of the body once it has become inactive.. and that to me is fairly logical. There's no need to speak so arrogantly to people. We are all here because of a common interest and it is important that we all bring our ideas to the table

I read a good quote the other day. it goes like this "We are not humans having a spiritual experience. We are spirits having a human experience"

I remember you said on another forum it was disrespectful to use slang for dmt.. but is it not just as disrespectful to discount other people's experiences on DMT and the beliefs they take with them after those experiences?

this reminds me of a time i was watching the beginning of some movie and it scared my 2y/o niece so much she wanted me to turn it off. all it was showing was a bull walking through the jungle at early dawn so it was just a silhouette. it was interesting to say the least. why would she be afraid of something with horns like that? did she encounter something like that that was scary before she was born? haha or is it just our instinct to be afraid of things with horns?

Wrong. Just because something is unproven doesn't make it untrue.



How arrogant for you to assume your beliefs are "truth" and and another's are not. As I've told you before, you are not omniscient. Not everyone bases their point of view on wishful thinking/"wanting to believe in something more", many base it on their experiences. DMT and Salvia breakthroughs, out-of-body experiences, Near-Death experiences, fully Lucid dreams, shared dreams, Remote Viewing, Bi-location, Mystical experiences, and psychic experiences are just a handful of potentially life-changing, ego-shattering, awe-inspiring events that can shape a persons point of view, and discounting it in the name of wishful thinking is an insult to those who have "been there".



Another one of your reductionist-materialist beliefs. You don't know what "imagination" truly is, nor can you prove that "the real world" is not simply a product of your imagination. "Real" is relative. Your "real world" is also "just electric signals in your brain".

I suggest you check your ego and show a little more respect to others' points of view. Like I've told you, I would expect someone from an entheogenic community to be a little more humble and open to different possibilities.

^ this!

It is interesting that Baphomet is a symbol of apostasy, and as such relates to the concept of seperation fron 'God', abandonment of ones religion. I have encountered this "entity" but more as a reflection of my own subconcious, mixed with universal archetypal imagery. And it did represent seperation from all that G-D is.
It seemed as if my conciousness could fall prey to this "upside down" realm (note baphomet's star) but was able to stay afloat, for now...must go, will post more

i once smoked DMT i got from some girl i knew and her boyfriend. i was playing gears of war 3 at the time and took a huge bong rip of it mixed with some weed. and I really did not want to trip that hard instantly feeling like i was gonna die. lol i seen the baphomet you speak of the goat and the pentagram...although i've seen it before on mushrooms purple ringers. as well as laughing dragon faces and the cylinder room with all the eyes spiraling to the top until you are just in a universal blackness of speckles. i thought i had a cosmic spiritual ancestor...it was like a she "feminine" being. purple and blue twi'lek like

Wow this thread has gone from strength to strength

"All we are is a bunch of cells.We are not eternal (as least our consciousness isn't), we die one day and boom that's it. It is a hard-to-accept truth"

Since you feel confident enough to make such a claim(of which there is no solid evidence to support), the burden of proof now is now your responsibility. I know of no scientific studies that can verify that we die and that's it, or that our consciousness is not eternal. Your going to have to provide a source for this "truth", and your talk about "logic" will not cut it. Making claims that I am sure you know you cannot back up with any real studies is not logical.

The things you are claiming as truth are things that would require a level of scientific observation that we don't seem to currently be capable of, in order to be proven or disproven.

Don't get locked into one reality tunnel, to the point where you think you know everything and close your mind off to things that are currently beyond out capability to measure/observe. It is an entirely unappealing trait to exhibit. We don't yet know or understand everything.