Greetings,

I am a student of Terence McKenna back in the 1990s and early 'auts, who, though many long turns and machinations, ended up converting to Roman Catholicism around 2005. Since then, I have been pretty content, but recently have been feeling the call of hyperspace once again. My best friend and fellow psychonaut and I have considered a trip to the jungles, but feel called to the path of Santo Daime and its incorporation of Christian motifs into the pychedelic experience. We seek a group in proximity to our home in the United States Midwest and are hoping someone on this forum can help connect us with a group or an individual.

Thank you in humble gratitude.

CatholicPsychonaut

that hurt my eyes

I have no information on diame ceremonies..but I HAVE to ask..

How do you go from Terrence to Catholicism? Mckenna is the like the anti-thesis of organized religion.

The church (and other christian groups) has a long tradition of transcendental mysticism. Saint Teresa is a good example of one of many christian mystics who have journeyed beyond. I'd guess it all comes from the same place at the end of the day.

It's often hard to seperate genuine spirituality from all the politics and other nonsense in organized religion, especially if you're a nonbeliever, but it is there.

A little bit of casual bigotry?

"A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices, especially one exhibiting intolerance, and animosity toward those of differing beliefs"

A catholic is a person that supports the catholic church,and therefor all the evil and misery it has spread all the years of it's existence.That's a fact,not a belief or an opinion,so I don't see why you would call me a bigot.

Well firstly thats not a fact, it is your opinion. A catholic is someone who believes the doctrines and dogma of the catholic church... That doesnt necessarily mean they support every action that every member of the catholic church has ever done. Most catholics either condemn the immoralities of the church or are unaware of them.

The comment was bigotted in that it showed (IMO unwarranted) animosity to someone based solely on them identifying as catholic. I wasnt so much calling you a bigot, just pointing out what appeared to be a fairly intolerant post

Edit: btw I frequently attack the teachings of catholicism and the actions of the vatican/bank/church, I just dont think we should transpose our anger at the church onto all catholics.

Even by your interpretation of "being a catholic",the support of that dogma means support and idolization of a hateful merciless god,a negative attitude towards the advancement of science and generally expanding one's knowledge because it might contradict the word of god,and also means abiding to a fixed moral code simply because you are told to.

A psychonaut tends to be in search of enlightenment,and doesn't follow a set of standard frames of thinking simply because the church tells him/her to.Also psychonauts tend to be peace-loving people that are above all open-minded.

Therefor saying i'm a catholic psychonaut is extremely oxymoronic, with the oxy being a very optional phrasing.

Just a little off topic here: Indoril, being open-minded also means being TOLERANT to others "ignorance" (if you really want to call it that way). Not blaming them, pointing out that they are wrong, but accepting the fact that some of us have seen another way, while others don't see it as we do. I have struggled to show people why some of their beliefs are not as moral as they think they are, but to no avail.

I've since learned to be more diplomatic, and serve them some bits of thought that don't necessarily point out my views, but instead make them question what ever it is they're thinking. Plus, you were there too at some point, so why point fingers? Well, maybe not in religion, but now for example, just WANTING to get it your way. People don't work like that, but we need to first better manage ourselves in order to be able to help others. It's not productive just assigning blame. Just look at all the governments/businesses and you'll see that this is true.

Also, unless the people in question raise invalid points about a certain subject, I don't see why one would go into that subject based solely on a user name? Doesn't really seem fair you know? What if I started bashing you because, supposedly, I don't like your screen name? What then? We'd just be 2 frustrated guys hating each other, instead of benefiting from each other's knowledge.

Peace & love,

oh christ people calm down.

I was asking how they went from mckenna to catholicism as a serious question..I really just wanted to know.

Why does this thread have to become a thing about religion and dogma etc? Let's wait for the OP to show up and just explain why they are catholic if they wish to. I have met non dogmatic christian mystics and I have fully dogmatic atheists and any number of other people involved is some "ism","ic" etc ..scientific people not excluded.

I still think that mckenna and catholicism are worlds apart which is why I asked the question.

Accepting other people's ignorance is the second worst thing you can do after being ignorant.Many grave crimes were committed in humanity's history,just because the 10-20% were ignorant and the 80% tolerated it.As Ian Kershaw said,"the road to Auschwitz was built by hate, but paved with indifference". That was the result of people accepting other people's ignorance.And yes you would start bashing me if my screen name was "Naziwarrior" or "Thehatemachine". The only difference is that our society accepts being a catholic because of all the influence the vatican has around the world.

Oh man!
This place is crawling with people who want to stick up for what they believe in and will fight over it, take things the wrong way, argue over stilly things that could be avoided.

Take for example: religion almost always ends in an argument because everyone has their own belief or doesnt believe in any religion.
Another one is that "thats some good shit"... Come on children!!! Bad means good in the vocabulary now a days! So if you say its good shit.. Shit = good stuff. Get with the program people! And stop jumping down peoples throtes! I am sure someone will try to ague with this... Oh wait... I was off topic!! Shoot me now!!
Just saying. We are all here together and seem like we should get along, dont you think? about 10-20% of these threads get in to some argument. Just let things go and ignore it if you dont agree. Thats what makes a happy home.

Oh another thing. When you read all the arguments and then take a nice spice trip. Do you think that helps get a good vibe thing going in hyperspace? Peace love and happiness gets you there though.

This post made me smile and made me happy for some reason...positive vibes

Heh...I yearn for the day when everybody will realize that life is not about others...until then, peace & prosperity

speaking as someone who's former belief in christianity was shattered partially due to psychotropics, how?
i cannot wrap my mind around someone familiar with entheogenic experiences taking that seriously....
surely its not fundamental catholicism...
but..
really?!?

Wow! This thing blew up while I was away!

So, here's the journey... After many wonderful experiences in Hyperspace, I got introduced to Buddhist meditation and Yoga, joined a commune dedicated to Hindu mediation... After a few years there, I had some very negative experiences regarding the sexual sexual improprieties of leadership. At the same time, i began reading Fr. Thomas Keating, who, in the 1980s, introduced a new form of Christian Meditation to the Catholic lexicon called "Centering Prayer," i also started studying the Medieval Christian Mystics (Jullian of Norwich, Theresa of Avilla, Francis of Assisi, John of the Cross, Catherine of Sienna, Hldegarde of Bingen...) and felt called to follow them to Christ.

I recently started listening to old Terence talks again... There are so many more of them out there on the net now than there was back in the 90s and turn of the millenium when the internet was so new! I agree that he was a big hater of Christianity...

I have been pretty fully let down by my experiences in Catholicsim.. The beauty and idealism and ecstacy of the Medieval saints is DEAD in the church, as far as I can see, and there is now, in years since John Paul IIs passing, what I would describe as a counter-revolution against Novelty within its ranks. It is fighting to hold on to failed dogmas and fighting to remain relevant while at the same time rejecting or minimizing the valuable teachings which could save it... and overemphasizing the useless teachings on sexuality and trying to be on moral high ground while simultaneously covering up its sex crimes...

I disagree that being Catholic means you support all that the Church stands for. There are many of us who would like to see it be more, do more, stand for something worth standing for... Entire parishes are filled with these people, but we often struggle to turn the Titanic before it crashes into the iceberg of irrelevance...

I like your Rumi (Coleman Barks) quote. When quoting a Coleman Barks translation of Rumi, one should quote it as Rumi via Coleman Barks, or something like that. Don't get me wrong, I'm personally a HUGE fan of Barks' translations of Rumi, but he's not really a translator. He has someone else translate the verses, then he tries to make them poetic in an American English voice. His version of Moses and the Shepherd is quite likely my all time favorite poem ever.

To address your actual question, though, I'd have to say that having been away from Psychedelics for a goodly many years, I have found myself more and more seeking to re-enter mainstream society with an eye for transforming it. I must admit that I haven't done a very good job at it, but no worthwhile thing is ever easy. In the film 2012: A Time for Change, the filmmaker states that in Shamanic cultures, the Shaman journeys to the other world, returns, and his ideas/experiences are integrated into the culture, and that the problem we've had since the 1960s is that we have no road in our culture for someone to go where we've gone and then come back to the mainstream society. That is what I've tried to do over the last few years, with mixed results.

No offense but I don't see why anyone who takes Ayahuasca would need a "church".

I take Ayahuasca by myself in the dark and that is all the Church I need...


"the white man goes to church to speak ABOUT Christ, The Native American goes into his Tee-Pee
to speak TO Christ"-Quote from some wise old Cowboy

Personally I think catholicism and ayahuasca together is a weird mix but hey that is just me. I would never drink with the daime. I dunno about the daime but I know that the UDV think actaully try to "cure" homosexuality with ayahuasca...discusting.

It is fine though if people want to go that route..whatever works I guess for you. For me I just find the church so corrupt and I cant take the bible seriously because it has been mistranslated and doctored far too many times.

Every daime church may be different also..I have heard some weird stories from close friends who drank with them.

I'm in midwest U.S. and would love to drink with you and hear stories of mckenna and your religious crusade. I'm not affiliated with the santo daime church, however.