Hey all,

SWIM has been into DMT for some time now (2 years, I think). I recently found out that there's an acetylated form of psylocin, called 4-ACO-DMT. The problem is that this is all I have been able to found about about this substance. Acetylaction sounds easy, actually. Can it be synthesized from N,N-DMT? Does anyone have experience with this substance. I'm just curious.

Thanks,
Doerak

No, it's not easy to do. 4-AcO-dmt is an acetyl ester of psilocin. One needs to make psilocin first, (quite difficult) and then engage into the pointless act of esterifying with acetic acid. Pointless because upon ingestion this ester will likely hydrolyse to psilocin. One's better off just making the psilocin (if anyone can make it!) and eat it.

Again scientific theory versus reality, and the scientific theory falls flat on its face because it's incomplete and doesn't include the science of pharmacology. In pharmacology it is a well known fact that different forms of the same drug have different absorbtion rates and this changes the effects of the drug. Even when taken orally, a citrate has different effects from a hydrochloride even though a citrate should convert into a hydrochloride in the stomach. In some cases the effects are so different that one form is toxic and the other is not!

The effects of 4-AcO-dmt are different from psilocin despite the fact that it should convert into psilocin in the body. This is because its aborbtion rate is different. The same is true for psilocybin. Both take longer to absorb than psilocin. SWIM has tried all three and they are NOT identical in effects. 4-AcO-dmt is a smoother experience. SWIM prefers psilocin over psilocybin. And NO, it's not placebo, the duration of effects are slightly different. The peak time is slightly different, etc. Lots of people have noticed that 4-AcO-dmt has a different character.

I cannot disagree with the fact that different forms of a drug can have different effects, however I have never heard of different salts of drugs having different effect. But I might be wrong, I am under the impression that pharmaceuticals sell the x salt of a drug and not y or z because x may be more convenient; it may have properties that make its isolation easier; properties that make its weighting easier (see dmt-fumarate); properties that make its packaging easier (e.g. not too statical when it needs to be inserted in a gelatine capsule). But not because they have different pharmacokinetics and/or different effects.

As far as 4-AcO-dmt, 5-phospho-dmt and psilocin, they are not different salts, they're more like different forms of a drug as you said. And some guy I hardly ever spoke to him for too long claimed that they had identical (or hard to distinguish) effects. There are no good studies (other than anecdotal reports) trying to identify any qualitative differences. But I would bet that a person would not be able to consistently distinguish 4-AcO from psilocybin if he didn't know what he was taking.

Think of it like morphine and heroin. heroin is the di-acetylated form of morphine and when it gets into the brain it converts back into morphine. but the overall effects of the drug while similar are still rather different. they are different because heroin can cross the blood brain barrier easier or get into the brain easier i forget. but the same situation is true with acetylated psilocin.

this situation also applies to salts because they can absorb differently and be distributed differently depending on the salt drug/route of admin.

to answer your question though doerack acetylation is easy to do on OH groups. psilocin has an OH group on the indole ring so its easy to react with most likely acetic anhydride to acetylate it while dmt doesn't have such an OH group and thus no where to acetylate.

So it would be easy trying to do the same thing with bufotenin?

Thanks so much for your replies. I think I quiete understand the difference now. I'm surprised to see after a few years this forum is still populated with so many experienced users and people who can tell me more about the substance DMT in a scientific way; something not seen often on the internet. Thanks again!

Well?

SWI 69ron once tried to make 5-AcO-dmt (aka acetic acid ester of bufotenine) and he was succcesful to some extent. But I do not remember the details, this is the thread.

4-aco-dmt has distinct effects. It is not the same experience as 4-ho/po-dmt. It is more dmt-esque than either of the main mushroom tryptamines. To me it resembles the post-breakthrough dmt experience.

Yes most likely. If one reacted it with acetic anhydride it should work very well. Note acetic anhydride is watched often because its use in the manufacturing of heroin. Reacting it with acetic acid I doubt would work as well as acetic anhydride and wouldn't waste much time with that unless one could think of a trick to make the reaction go better.

There is an article out called Bufotenine Esters by Richard Glennon (1979) it contains the method to make severeal bufotenine esters. These drugs would certainly have different activity. As stated heroin is acetylated morphine. A dose of heroin is 3X stronger than morphine and do to fast distribution higher levels of heroin get to the brain faster than morphine. Medicinal chemists always make the acetylated version of a drug when possible as they usualy have different pharmacologies. Anyway a friend of a friend tried the method outlined in the article she claimed rather low yields not even enough to do further analysis on. The method requires acetic anhydride and NaOH and CHCl3. It may require ultra pure Bufotenine and the exact amounts of the reactants which SWIM's friend did not follow to a T although this individual is fairly good at chemistry so ? This would be a very fascinating compound.