Wow! Great discussion everyone. I couldnt possibly retort to all of your ideas so I'll try to conclude here.

I was thinking that being able to see bright light in darkness could prove that the dmt experience is a "place" outside of your head, hyperspace if you will.

I've forgotten his name but the second or third poster put in a great article on phosphenes, which means that it is at least possible to experience light in darkness without somehow transporting your consciousness somewhere else.

Also, that what we percieve as color is really the designation of a given neurological process to a given wavelenght of electromagnetic radiation. So color has no real significance in this context.

Then the argument was basically reduced to the old philosophical problem of sensory reality. You can never really see whats real and what isnt because "reality" is the result of your neurological processes producing a model of whats actually happening, and you could never peer outside of that model into "reality"

My conclusion: Ironically, something my father always told me. "Perception is reality!"


Thanks for all the input!

Glory Dkalz: That article is pretty good. Its the best scientific explanation I've heard. Check out this video. Instead of magnetic frequencies, they use sound frequencies to create interference patterns with rice. Its so cool!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qf0t4qIVWF4

Some truth in here, but not complete.

From this link: http://www.nhtsa.gov/peo...ob185drugs/lysergic.htm

LSD has a half life of 2.5-4 hours. So 4 hours into the trip you still have half of the LSD in your system. 4 hours later you will still have 25% of the original dose in your body. So most people think of LSD as an 8 hour trip...at the end of 8 hours you still have apporixmattly 20-25% of the substance still floating around in your body...most likely at this point it has been uptaken into serotonin vessicles on the presynaptic cleft.

So while it is true that LSD causes a release of serotonin and other neurotransmitters that certainly contribute to the experience...
It is not trut to say that LSD is gone before the peak. The reason it takes 3-4 hours to reach the peak is that is how long it takes the bulk of the viable (non metabolized) dose to reach your brain. The reason LSD lasts so long is because it is metabolized relatively slow compared to primary amines like tryptamines.

Now with that said. I do agree that your brain generates this experience. Your brain is the hardware and LSD is the software.

I think he is talking about something different, though, joedirt... The peak concentration in the brain is in the first 10 minutes, afterwards LSD is distributed in other parts of the body, IIRC in the kidneys and other places? .. I will try to find the source for this, maybe it was in Dr Nichols presentation on LSD, or some publication..

In any case its amazing that LSD is really acting in the brain mostly only in the beginning, that it basically starts a cascade of events which is what create the effects... Makes you wonder..

That video was pretty interesting. I like how the higher freq's get more and more complex. I never knew sound/vibration could do that. And yea that article is really great but for some reason, whenever I post it on these boards, everyone kind of skips over it and the conversation goes elsewhere. Oh well. Glad someone else thought it was a good read.

I deffinately enjoyed the article gory dkalz. It is a bit much to work through in the blogging mentality, but still a gem for the few that appreciate it.

I first saw that video in a chemistry class. My professor used it as a visualization of the wave-nature of electrons surrounding a nucleus. So it makes even more sense after reading that article.

The same professor made a reference to Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas to explain why water with electrolytes in it can conduct electricity(throwing the radio in the tub).

I can only imagine what hes got going in his basement!

I was afraid to find midway through this thread that one could break down the experience of seeing these complex, morphing geometries into something simple and scientifically rational.

I think now its even more apparent that 'they' show a much deeper insight into the nature of reality, even though it is as joedirt says - the experience is generated in the brain. Its truly a scientifically sanctioned Mystery. I never knew I was looking at the complex ineractions of the molecules my brain is made of. And to know that it takes consciousness to view them! my god. Not even to mention string theory's potential extra dimensions!

If one things for sure, its that consciousness creates experience. In this universe you can never get to the end, because by searching for the end, your are laying down new ground to cover.


Thanks Everyone

Peace and Love