Not me! The substances involved are illegal where I live, I wouldn't be able to do it since I am a fully legitimate citizen that fears and respects both the government and the law!

But this (possibly reckless drug addict) guy I was chatting on the chatroom said he'll try that at some point this month, it is pretty difficult for him to find few hours to devote on tripping. He's working 24/7 sometimes.

tell him he may be in for quite the trip if hes using 300mg theobromine..300mg maois..and 240mg dmt fumarate..tell him it might be a good idea to have a friend around..because this combo sounds like it could kill a horse...this is almost equivalent to taking about 600-800mg of maois...and 700-1000mg of dmt..so just tell him to be extremely careful..and have a buddy around..and wish him luck for me

That would be totally cool!

But to be on the safe side, he's going to try tomorrow 300mg theobromine, then 1 hour later get only 300mg harmalas. Just to get a feeling for. Maybe add 60mg freebase dmt for an interesting twist if he feels like that, before jumping straight to mammoth doses.

SWIM does not understand why such high doses of dmt are needed to feel effects? 40mg of freebase dmt is more then enough for SWIM orally??

SWIM had one of his most powerful experiences from only 55mg of dmt fumarate..with the 300mg of theobromine..so SWIY should at least FEEL some effects from 60mg with the maois and theobromine

i really hope this works for SWIY because its much better than taking 300-400mg of dmt just to get a decently strong experience..

Well, this guy is a bit of a hardhead when it comes to drugs being taken orally. Almost every drug he's tried, apart from alcohol. His friends know this very well. When he says to his mates yeah, you need x amount of this to work, they know very well to take 5 times less his recommended amount.

It is not unusual for some individuals to have extreme tolerance to drugs or the opposite. One of this guys best mates has the most insanely low threshold & no tolerance when to comes to drugs. 10mg of smoked dmt is already TOO MUCH. 0.5g of dried mushrooms is a ridiculously insane trip. An ecstasy pill makes him trip for the whole weekend, while the other guy does not understand anything.

Everyone is different and free to deviate from the norm.

So true. They give speed to hyperactive kids to slow them down... yet if SWIM takes it he gets very sped up and jittery.

Wow cool yea I just always find it interesting the large variation in doses with the spice. Guess its good to start low and work ones way up to avoid over doing it.

SWIM did (not on an empty stomach, he ate a few hours before):

60mg DMT Fumarate (with the FASA he hadn't washed but dried)
54mg THH
78mg Harmine

And it was very intense. Lasting around 5 hours total.

Is it possible that Fumaric Acid potentiates the DMT or not?

If not, SWIM suspects the blood thinners he is on add to the intensity. Perhaps faster/better absorption on 1/2 thin blood.

At low doses amphetamine have a calming effect on most people. Some are hypersensitive and thus need a smaller dose than others. However this effect is not just observed in people with ADD. It all depends on dose. Low doses help most people stay focused.

well SWIM has heard that different salt forms of tryptamines have different effects..like if you used phosphoric acid on a cold water extraction with mimosa..you would end up with an extremely potent brew..

SWIM's FOAF totally does not believe that different dmt salts have different effects when it comes to the experience and pharmakokinetics.

And the reason for that is because the "dmt part" of any dmt salt is the same when it comes to it being dissolved (i.e. as it is in the body). There is no such thing as solid "dmt salt" when it is dissolved in aqueous solutions.

Dmt fimarate will dissociate to dmt and fumarate, dmt chloride will dissociate to dmt and chlorids, dmt phosphate will dissociate to dmt and phosphate. From now on, they are totally apart. The dmt will never meet again its fumarate, chloride, phosphate etc partner. It will be absorbed as dmt from the body, not as its salt!

well SWIM understands that..but why doesnt that work with bufotenine? everybody has been saying that it has bad effects..but if they are separate..they why would it change the effects?

What exactly do you mean? What is the case with bufotenine? What doesn't work with bufo?

why the salted forms make you ill

I don't understand this either but I guess that depending on it's form (acid, or freebase), the molecule may be more or less active and cross more or less the brain barrier. Maybe the molecule's shape is different in acid or freebase form and that makes all the difference about effects ?

The toxicity with bufotenine salt is not really known. Although it is believed to result from the differences in absorption and blood levels which result from the different rates of absorption of the different preperations. So long a basic (amine) drug is taken orally the preperation (salt or freebase) makes little difference on its effects (for the most part some salts may affect ionization...) as the drugs are converted to the acid in the stomach and then to the freebase in the small intestine before absorption occurs (absorption is of the unionized freebase amine). Once absorbed the drugs are subjected to the pH of the body and thus the form it takes is no longer dependent on its initial preparation. This is true of all forms of administration, the state a molecule takes while within a protein has a lot to do with the micro environment that the drug is in. Thus the drug will can change between many states while in different areas of the body. The initial form it is in matters little aside from the route of administration.

Do not forget however that there is a difference between the ionoized salt form of the DMT molecule and the freebase as the ionized salt form has an extra proton on the amine nitrogen (even with the conjugate acid ionized off) and gives the molecule a positive charge (and thus water soluable or other polar solvents). However DMT taken orally is absorbed as the freebase.

how much harmala alkaloids are present in 2g of syrian rue?

2g is the usual dose a friend needs for inhibition. Once he took 2g of syrian rue vs. 3g of cubensis - he NEVER wanted to do it again. it was quite ayahuasca like. Something one doesn't wanna screw with all too often in my opinion.

I had 'heard' it was about 60-70 mg MAOI per gram of seed, so I've gone ahead experimenting with the estimate that 3 g is about 200 mg of MAOIs.

The bit of experience I have had with pharmahuasca using rue seed and dmt orally leads me to belive that .75mg of dmt per pound of body weight is a huge dmt dose ! This is true for me at least at 150 lbs.

If starting out, when you take as much as 3g of seed extract, which a high amount of MAOI, I'd not exceed 0.75mg of dmt/Lb body weight - the high MAOI is a potential for the infinate-thought-looping ! And, ime ... NEVER eat syrian rue seed, since you'll puke every last gritty bit of them back up - guaranteed !

According to Strassmans new book. Inner Paths to Outer space. Journeys to Alien Worlds thru psychedelics and other spiritual Technologies. Three of the poeople in the study showed no effects from DMT. This was IV. It would seem there are some people whos brain chemestry may be drastically different from the majority or so called "normal" individual. I would suspect Shamans may reside in this group. This would explain why Shanams can conduct sessions when wile mataining control in spite
of the fact they have consumed the same or even more amount of aya than the session members.
Tolerance may also be a factor.

M.V.