HyperspaceFool is correct there, speculation from either part is just that, speculation, and there's really no need to be condescending, even if its true that some people can be less-than-critical (or plain deluded) regarding these kind of theories.

But let's put it in perspective here too: the thread is titled "ways to naturally control the release of our own DMT".. The thread title assumes we can consciously control it, which we might or we might not, but specially, the title assumes that somebody can actually know what their DMT level is (and thus know if they can control it), which they cannot through subjective experience, this could only be done with analytical equipment.

Now, I think that it's interesting to consider gibran's comment about the potential problem of considering that similar experiences have the same cause. It may be completely different causes, and there's no reason to assume it's all DMT release even if some parts of the subjective experience seem similar (though there's no reason to absolutely assume its not either, speculation is speculation and when we all have this very clear, it's good that we have arguments being shared about the different possibilities and debate it openly)

I think that, regardless of the cause being DMT or not, there's plenty of examples that humans can enter altered states by different methods. This is interesting by itself, and the causes may be several. I personally have experienced altered states of consciousness without taking drugs, a couple of times it was completely random events walking down the street, felt like the strong come-up of psychedelics with mild visual distortions, and other times there were clear triggers (like exhaustion/exercise, strong emotions and other things I wont mention for the moment). For these questions, though, it would make sense if the topic title could be otherwise, like: Ways to enter altered states of consciousness without ingesting substances. Or similar..

Last but not least, one question I ask (which I just mentioned in another thread): Why the focus on DMT? 5-MeO-DMT is an extremely potent substance, and we know it is also endogenous substance.. So why dont people talk about 5-MeO-DMT pineal gland release? Or bufotenine? Or all the other endogenous subtances, beta carbolines, cannabinoids, or whatever else?

I'm with you endlessness.

If you will notice, I did speak of "endogenous tryptamines and beta-carbolines" (plural). When I describe the effects, here and on another similar thread going, I cited them as DMT-esque.

Being familiar with 5 meo and bufo, I wouldn't bet the farm that the experiences I have had are solely due to either compound. They were always far too colorful. I think that other anecdotal experiences I have heard might be more along those lines though... especially the ones that were more stark, forbodding, ominous and colorless. Obviously, a lot of people respond differently to 5 meo and bufo, but they are known to both be significantly less neon-rainbowish than the good ol' n,n DMT.

Considering that I personally feel that hyperspace is a state we can reach or a place we can visit (rather than simply the sensory distortion effects of a single alkaloid), it would not surprise me to find that there were multiple ways to get there... and that not all of them involve the use of DMT.

Pre-emptive restatement: Notice I said that the above is my personal feeling. I am not making any claims, and would appreciate it if I wasn't immediately hit with the "prove it" chorus.

bufotenine is easily as colorful if not more so than DMT is. I have taken extracted bufotenine in large doses so many times and when you hit the right level it is the single most colorful and visual thing I have encountered-however..it lacks the mental effects and beauty of DMT..something that is present in my endogenous I sometimes have. 5meoDMT is something I have suspected might be present and be responciple for some of the effects..most likely it is a soup of chemicals, including some tryptamines and beta carbolines. Bufotenine could easily be present as well but with other things there that give the deep interdimensional effects to the experience. I have had experiences where I have lived the lives of other people, who I entered though some sort of tryptamine like neon grid that linked up all other souls. This was while awake in bed at like 3am.

Ananda Bosman talk about agamtine alot as a good candidate for a chemical that could be released in darkrooming. He compares 14 days in a darkroom to an ayahuasca experience(but stronger) with definative ketamine like effects as well and agmatine is an endogenous NMDA atagonist. I dont know anything about agmatine though.

I think your disclaimers are more than enough, HF, for people to realize you are making no absolute claims here

By the way, regarding quantity of DMT in the blood compared to when an active dose is consumed, it is very interesting that there is NOT a large difference. Here's a bit of data we have summed up in our DMT wiki (data organized from Trout's Notes).

- Clarke's Second Edition notes that natural endogenous concentrations in plasma are normally less than 0.001 ug/ml and that IM administration of 0.7 mg/kg resulted in an average concentration of 0.1 ug/ml at 0.17 hour. Said to be the time of maximum effect via this route. This is fascinating as it implies that strongly entheogenic activity is a result of elevation of the concentration by less than 100 times that of the naturally occurring baseline.

Now what I want to look is whats the highest found endogenous DMT level in a normal person.... In our wiki there's some references we can look, Ill check it out tomorrow... I dont know about 5-MeO-DMT or Bufotenine levels, Ill look at the wiki references and clarke's 2nd (or 4th) if they mention quantities for these other tryptamines. And adding all of these substances up together, plus beta-carbolines, it starts seeming more possible that in some circumstances for some people, indeed they might have effects from these endogenous substances. At the same time, even if we get to the conclusion that in some cases this is true, people shouldnt immediately use this data to generalize that all sorts of cases of non drug-induced altered states are necessarily from these substances (and the pineal may or may not be involved in this story, but even if its not, it doesnt make this less interesting).

Maybe if somebody wants to be a lab rat and do some self-experiments with inducing altered states without drugs and do an extraction on their own blood/urine before and after, possibly I can get it analyzed

I have had a theory floating around in the back of my mind for a while.

Since we are all speculating I'll toss it out there.

Kriya pranayama is a yoga practice where one mentally guides the energy up the spine on the in breath and then down the spine on the out breath.

The technique is designed to eventually spawn a Kundalini release.

I have actually had a real kundalini experience (not from kriya pranayama) and it was pretty much exactly as I've heard described. It was right at the boundary of sleep and wake. I felt my body go rigid, the breath was pulled out of my mouth, and I felt a surge of energy move up my spain into my brain...I saw a brief flash of intense white light and then I was thrust back to a normal waking state.

So..

We know from scientific literature that the N-methylating enzyme INMT is found in the spinal coord.

Could Kundalini literally be your spinal coord triggering the release of DMT and the experience of the energy moving could be what happens as DMT is released on the way up the spine?

I know we have all experienced the 'shaman shakes' from to large a hit of DMT...well those shakes felt very similar to my kundalini release.

Any thoughts?

Not sure if anyone has really touched base on Walter Rawls magnetic experiments? I noticed on page two a slight touch and go with a magnetic head harness, but it didn't go much further. Im interested to hear what people have to say about the experience that Walter Rawls had. For those unfamiliar i will share what i am referring to.



I found this very fascinating! I have also somewhere along my research, heard of another scientist fabricating a pair of glasses to hold magnets over strategically placed points, and also experiencing something similar! I cant recall where i saw or heard this, but the thought is extremely captivating.

Another question i had is, what are peoples views/thoughts on binaural beats. While looking into the Magnetic theory, i frequented information regarding certain pitches or tones that could aid in DMT like experiences. I haven't read much in this thread about either of these supposed non drug induced ways to release DMT, and felt that it may open up a whole other conversation and direction of thought.

SR1 receptors or TAAR receptors (not sure which I think it's SR1) will cause DMT to be stored in a vacuole within the cytoplasm. In the paper I recall reading this in significant levels of DMT were not transported out of the cell for over a week after injection into the rabbits they used.

That was an interesting read Verruckter. My personal opinion is that magnets could produce anomalies of this nature. As far as I know the various electro-magnetic field theories are divergent on any consensus regarding this, but I personally believe that it would certainly effect our brain chemistry in unexpected, and as of yet, unexplainable ways. Binaural beats also, I believe could have similar effects. Hopefully through repeated experimentation we can begin to learn how to use such novel methods of alterations in more accurate ways. For example, tweaking frequency, tone, etc for specifically desired results. Not sure if generously funded academia will yet allow freedom of self experimentation, but I myself am inclined to take subjective experiences for what they are worth, generally being open-minded towards cases like the one you posted. I wouldn't say I'm gullible, but it often hurts more to consider that things beyond our comprehension are implausible.

But the rather untapped reservoir of possibilities that are implicated by the relationship between electricity, sound, and chemistry and the especially vague understanding that modern science has of organic chemistry leaves plenty to our imagination at the current time it seems. I suspect that sound is key, but that's coming from intuition based of my humble understanding of physics matched with the rather uniform consensus among most mythical cosmologies. In that case then electricity would also be key.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned binaural beats yet. Cheaper than the Shiva helmet, less invasive, and IMO a must for anyone interested in yogic practices. I didn't believe in energy or chakras or any of that stuff until I started spending hours listening to Hemi Sync and started feeling the energy flow through my body. Incidentally, one of the first things I noticed was a feeling of pressure around my 3rd eye. I can turn this on now whenever I want, although admittedly this hasn't lead anywhere.

I know the thread is about how to release natural DMT, but is that your ultimate goal? If you somehow managed to boost your endogenous DMT levels but had no tangible experiences, would you be satisfied with that? Or is your goal to experience hyperspace or something similar without drugs? Astral projection and OBEs are difficult to learn to trigger. I've had a few, but never had any control over them whatsoever. Still, there seem to be definite parallels between naturally induced OBEs and DMT voyages- at least in terms of contact with entities.

This is actually a big part of my motive for following this path. I believe that once you open yourself up to metaphysical experiences like this, whatever your method, they naturally start seeping into your daily life.

I have a lot of experience with binaural beats, brainwave frequency entrainment, and the use of specific tones. This can be very effective stuff.

There are a lot of threads on the Nexus where we have discussed this stuff in great detail, so I will just toss this tidbit into the mix here:

If you have had interesting effects from audio brainwave entrainment, you really should do yourself a favor and get a LIGHT & SOUND MIND MACHINE setup.

Seriously. The effects are substantially more profound than audio only CDs or MP3s. Stimulating two senses simultaneously with the same patterns is not just twice as effective, but maybe 4 times. Also, most people are very visually oriented, so I find that I get more profound effects from the light glasses only than I do from audio only. It is very easy to achieve intense CEVs with the flickering lights on the back of your eyelids.

After becoming aware of entrainment via audio only methods, I bought my first mind machine back in the mid 80's out of an ad in OMNI magazine. That ancient red LED setup lasted me until a few years ago when I could barely patch it together anymore, and broke down and purchased a newer full color spectrum setup. I doubted the idea of these "millions of colors" thingies (256*256*256= 16,777,216) seeing as my old red only worked fine and produced an astonishing range of mental colors, and I figured any colors on the outside of the lids would be colored by the blood & skin of the lids... but it is super cool.

AVS, aka Light & Sound, can really potentiate entheogens also. A sub-threshold / threshold borderline trip can be boosted into a ++++ very easily with a few minutes on a mind machine.

If you’re referring to the Shulgin scale, then you are incorrect. By definition, there is no easy, reliable way to achieve a ++++ experience:

^ Okay, so ++++ might have been a bit hyperbolic.

I always thought that the Shulgin scale was too limited. There are too many experiences between the levels IMO.

Anyway, it can kick a barely noticeable trip into full on surround CEV land.

I agree, I've always found the scale limited too....

Joedirt, what about INMT having been found in the lungs, what do you think of the possibility of the connection of pranayama (or any number of breathing techniques such as shamanic 'blows', holotropic breathing, etc) and increased endogenous DMT content? Or maybe it's rather to do with ratio of other 'simple' gases in the blood that are affected by these different breathing patterns and its unrelated to endogenous tryptamines/etc ?

Endless got me thinking, im wondering if there have been any studies showing that breathing techniques alone have been able to produce any sort of endogenous DMT like experience? Is it possible that the lungs don't actually have the releasing ability, but are simply the transmitter/catalyst to another organ/gland able to produce these effects?

What do you mean?

Breathing techniques have definitely been catalysts to bringing altered states of consciousness, they have been used in different cultures for milennia... but whether DMT has anything to do with those experiences, nobody knows..

And no, I dont think there are any studies related to endogenous DMT and breathing. AFAIK the only variables studies with DMT levels in the body are, psychotic vs non-psychotic people (no real relationship found), and normal endogenous dmt base level vs level when someone takes an active dose of DMT from external source.

hyperventilation has been found to increase DMT levels in the lungs if I am not mistaken.

Wanna dig up any source for that?

These may be the papers you are talking about.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18805646
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21622895

Sorry, I wasn't trying to question as to the importance of breathing techniques and their values for meditation and grounding! I was inquiring about the possibility of the breathing techniques in relation to being able to naturally control the release of DMT. obviously without proper breathing not much could be accomplished without exogenous influence...


Interesting, if this has any factual basis, i still wonder if the lungs possibly emit a signal to another area that would release or aid in releasing the chemical?

I might be a little ignorant in this matter, so respectfully ask... Have the lungs ever been found to emit or contain dmt, or is this merely an educated hypothesis?

Interesting. I haven't given much thought to this route as I figured DMT from the lungs had to get into the bloodstream and cross the BBB without getting metabolized by MAO. But as I say that I realize that this is exactly what vaporized DMT has to do as well.