I'm interested in learning if anyone here has had any personal success in releasing their brains natural supply of DMT in large quantities. I guess it would be analogous with having skill in lucid dreaming, but I'm not sure. I've been reading into diets that help cultivate the production of melatonin and serotonin in the pineal and pituitary, and have been practicing the activation of the para-sympathetic nervous system which I would imagine to be necessary in the attainment of a deep trance state. But since I'm still a beginner concerning states of deep relaxation/self-hynosis, I feel that I'm still a far ways off from being able to attain anything like genuine visions. I'm also working around a full-time school schedule, so it's difficult to synchronize this with the other usual methods of fasting and self deprivation (hopefully with regular practice until spring break, I may be able to attain a sober breakthrough then). I've heard that the pineal gland can become highly active after a prolonged period in total darkness, something like 72 hours or more. Anyone else have preferred methods? For me it seems that physical exhaustion followed by extreme relaxation works best to attain the euphoric state at least.

dmt may not be created in the brain at all, perhaps the lungs; who knows!

i think doing a simple extraction and smoking it is the natural way for human consciousness to release into the state of hyperspace

How about this answer: you can get effects of like drunkeness from JUST taking an MAOi. So since the DMT would be in a water soluble state in the body (98% water), you would probably have to be pn an MAOi before meditating it to a concentration. Now this could be a problem...if your in a type of drunken state it would be hard to focus. To get the effects of DMT does it not have to be processed? When you ingest or smoke DMT it is processed by your body and expelled, otherwise people hat have taken DMT would show high levels months later..over the people in the sanitarum levels.

I am not a doctor or chemist, this is just logic

A good dose of harmalas is hardly like being drunk IMO

I don't even think there comparable. I mean yea its hard to walk until you get used to high doses, and you can get dizzy if your moving around to much, but the similarities pretty much end there for me. and even the dizziness is different really to me..try a higher dose in the dark while laying down. It is NOT like being drunk at all then and can lead into very realistic visionary dream sequences

1. whatever dmt traces are found flowing through you're blood or wherever, ARE being controlled naturally to start with!!
What ever you're implying trying to do would be conscience-related and disruptive to the natural flow of trace amounts of dmt
[doing whatever the hell they do there in the first place]
2. if you believe it's possible to control 'the release' of dmt. firstly consider, that the dmt in your body isn't put there by some magical soap dispensing device.
I doubt anyone knows how it's getting into the blood stream... so I mean if you can source the releasing of dmt through meditation without even knowing how it's happening than let me know, im 100% on board.
3. Of all the hype I've heard about this and that to do with dmt in the body... the closest I've come to even bring considering truthful is: the dmt release after death.
So I'd personally [and in no way am advocating] would try jumping off a cliff - if I intended to pursue such trivial ideas.

End point being I don't intend to be rude, but feel like I should be because I've heard this question come up a thousand times.
Most of these proposals are at least ten+ years old, and are not being confirmed or disproved any time soon.
I don't mind discussing it - but it's when I see things like advertisements for "The Secret Ways To Release Dmt Naturally In Your Brain" prompting you to pay $29.99, "for you're best money's worth EVER".
That's when It starts to bug me, seeing the two worlds collide of consumerist clowns trying to sell us the very thing that liberated us from they're culture-oriented constraints. F****** a-holes.

endogenous dmt is no different than exogenous dmt. dmt is dmt.
that being said, if endogenous dmt is in the bloodstream, it will likely encounter MAO from epithelial cells and the liver. there needs to be an MAOI present to get noticeable effects from endogenous DMT, which in turn would need to be present in mM concentrations to get those visionary effects

Ben, i'm curious as to your opinion on the concept of "meditation" induced elevation/secretion of Pinoline from the pineal gland as being responsible for a potential increase in endogenous DMT circulation..?
seems more plausible to me for the very tryptamine-esque visions many meditators (particularly those who practice Vipassana meditation) claim to see..?

you know, I actually favor that theory..
I actually favored it back when people were still barking up the "dmt is produced in the pineal gland" tree. the pineal gland supposedly secretes melatonin during a period of perceived darkness, so it's not unreasonable to expect other metabolites of melatonin to be produced as well. pinoline is, as you're undoubtedly aware, a cyclized metabolite (beta-carboline) of melatonin...and it's a known MAOI (CYP2D6 inhibitor)

if you want to elevate levels of dmt, theoretically, take l-tryptophan and SAMe, perhaps passiflora extract. 5-HTP won't work because it's used in a separate metabolic pathway used to produce serotonin and its metabolites, and serotonin production inhibits DMT production. I also advise against melatonin supplements, because it's a latter product in tryptophan metabolism; elevated levels inhibit production of serotonin and other metabolites (it's called feedback inhibition). take tryptophan instead.

The last two posts are pretty interesting. I'm not particularly knowledgeable towards the entire relationship between dmt and maoi, except that you need an maoi in order to orally activate dmt. I have read about the role of melatonin as a powerful neurotransmitter and had considered that consuming a large amount of tryptophan could possibly aid in the production, though I'm sure it's conversion is more complicated, and I know that melatonin's activation has to do with our circadian rhythms and is sensitive to our exposure to light. I suspect that dmt is released in a controlled matter while we are sleeping in the rem phase, and that we wouldn't need to take a prepared maoi, though it would make it easier and the effects more potent. I've got a bit to learn as far as the raw chemistry goes, pharmacology is like a whole other language as almost every science is; it's interesting to conceptualize though.

this is still anecdotal at best, there's no evidence to suggest DMT release during REM sleep; this doesn't mean it doesn't occur, however the 5HT system in the raphe nuclei is supposedly inactivated during REM sleep, and DMT's subjective effects are largely due to its function as a 5HT ligand.

Yeah I've seen tons of those advertisements, but I've never looked into them. I'm proposing the possibility that dmt is of subtler effect in terms of meditative disciplines and shamanic trance that doesn't include the use of drugs however. I am doubtful that tapping into the bodies ability to release it would be as dramatic as taking a high dose in two or three big hits, because it probably would take something as dramatic as death or possibly near death experience to facilitate something as profound. But as far as deep meditation, astral projection, and even high level concentrations are concerned, if DMT is a powerful neurotransmitter as some suppose it is, then I would suspect more of it would be active in the bloodstream during these states. My interest is struck by personal experiences delving into the simultaneous activation of the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system, which is strangely comparable to the ingestion of large doses of psilocybin. I just feel that melatonin, serotonin, and possibly dmt all play important roles in this. I've read that DMT is less concentrated in other animals, but is more free-flowing; which raises more curiousity in my mind since DMT's nearly universal presence could make it a candidate for some sort of advanced cross-specie "pheromone" in a sense, especially if it were to play a large role in fight or flight tendencies.

What about TAARs and SR1? I don't doubt that the psychedelic effects are a result of dmt binding to various 5ht receptors, but that's exogenous dmt interactions. I think that the TAARs and SR1 are active at much lower concentrations and thus may serve as the functional receptors for endogenous dmt.

ok, but what's the function at those receptors? anti-anxiety?
the visionary states this molecule induces occurs when plasma concentrations are at
millimolar levels, and yea, that's typically encountered from exogenous sources, not endogenous... however, perhaps threshold effects are possible at high micromolar levels, especially if MAOIs are present

Purely philosophical, but I'm wondering if you really think that's true. Sure, they're physically, chemically the same, but I don't think that's all there is to it. The more experiences I have with these wacky states, the more it becomes evident(or I'm fooled into believing) that every piece of the universe is a completely unique being/personality. I think all DMT molecules are the same in many ways, but each brings with it the memories, feelings, dreams, and awareness of its unique source, which is why several people speak of the character or spirit of specific plant sources.

Personally, I did DMT in a dream a few weeks after an ayahuasca breakthrough, and it worked like a charm, way beyond anything I remember being possible in any previous dreams. It felt much more self-directed, rather than mostly "along for the ride" like with ayahuasca. It made me wonder if it was an endogenous DMT trip, which makes me curious if it would be possible to self-extract DMT for personal use.

So in reply to the original post, I think lucid dreaming is a very promising method for inducing "natural" DMT experiences. You just have to remember to do some DMT once you realize you're dreaming.

If I do some DMT when I'm dreaming, I'll eventually wake up and realize it was just a vague memory of a DMT experience in the past, just like it is when doing PCP in my dreams.

Well, contrary to what some have posted here, my experiences lead me to say that endogenous DMT production is possible and (like other autonomic processes) it should be possible to develop the ability to control it to some degree.

These are my opinions, but they are based in lengthy and repeated personal experience.

1) I have smoalked DMT & taken Aya in dreams and gotten high.
2) Contrary to what benzyme has said of his experience, my experiences of dreamtime hyperspace were not memories of previous experiences, but altogether new and unprecedented trips.
3) I have had tryptamine-like experiences from yogic practice. (specifically a 3rd eye stimulating mudra)
4) I have had the subjective experience of the area where the pineal gland is located pulsing and throbbing accompanied by DMT-esque features. (using entheogens, yoga, meditation, and also from heavy massage... often in some combination with each other and with vocal toning, deep relaxation, brainwave entrainment, nootropics, harmalines, herbal and vitamin supplements etc.)

It is often said around here that the pineal gland has not been shown to make DMT, and that it is found most often in the lungs and in the spinal cord. The intensity of the need many people have to shoot down all the "airy fairy" talk of the pineal gland can be overwhelming. But, as another thread here explored... the fabled missing ingredient for DMT production in the pineal has actually been found. http://www.neurophys.wisc.edu/~cozzi/Indolethylamine%20N-methyltransferase%20expression%20in%20primate%20nervous%20tissue.pdf N-methyltransferase immunoactivity has been found in the pineal gland (as well as elsewhere in the central nervous system like the retinal ganglion). "In the pineal gland, the INMT signal was robust and punctuate..." All the other ingredients were already known to be there in abundance.

Even if this was not the case, I don't understand the kinds of reactions you see on pineal gland threads here. There is a reason that Rene Descartes spent a great amount of his time studying the pineal gland. (The inventor of the Scientific Method no less.) Rick Strassman gets a lot of flack for his conjectures about the gland vis a vis DMT, dreaming, near death experiences and the like... but how many of the people criticizing him have done official scientific studies of DMT? None. He is the only scientist to have done DMT research in many decades.

It is my opinion that not everyone's pineal glands are as atrophied and degenerated as everyone else's. Those of us who stimulate and feed this gland might be more successful at inducing it to do some work and produce some effects that it might not normally exhibit. We don't know for sure that the pineal gland makes DMT, or if sleeping or dreaming affects this. But we also have no good reason to think that it is not possible.

Thus, subjective anecdotal experiences like my own are a reasonable point of speculation. And, I can say that after stimulating my pineal gland on a number of occasions, I was reliably rewarded with a juicy flood of saliva into my mouth that made me high as a kite in a very familiar way. (like a near peak on ayahuasca) The fact that the pineal gland does make pinoline (a known MAOI), means that we just might have the ability to make endogenous ayahuasca.

You'd think people around here would be thrilled by this prospect.

Don't let anyone discourage you. If you are intent on activating this ability, I have a feeling you will succeed. Unfortunately, though, I think your time-frame is a bit rushed. It might take you many years to develop the abilities and yogic proficiency required for this. It is only possible from a very deep meditative state from what I can tell, and it is rare for full time University students to have the kind of time and discipline to reach this level... even when on "Spring Break." You may have to chalk this up to a long term goal and think more along the lines of a 5 year plan. I would be amazed if someone without a background in yoga, chi kung, esoteric practices, heavy meditation, hypnosis, or the like would be able to make this work with less than a year of concentrated effort.

Who know? Things do seem to be moving quicker these days.

Good luck
HF

Thanks for your insight Hyperspace Fool. After reading through that, I do think my timeframe is rushed, especially in comparison to your personal experiences. In terms of achieving a deeply introspective, nearly paralytic state that a good dose of exogenous dmt would exhibit, I sure that is a ways off for anyone except highly devoted ascetics.

I've been practicing a resurgent practice of ecstatic state that is well described on this website:

Somafera: Body Wild

It is a modern form parallel with the northern berserks, greek maenads, and indian sadhus. Though many people have their own personal approaches, I've had my largest successes or breakthroughs in short bursts, during extended periods of physical and mental exhaustion. But again, this is mostly because I can only devote a specific premium of time into my spiritual practices. Though, I have begun to be more regimented in practicing meditation daily as concentration has always been an achilles heel for me. Realizing that it's much easier for me to focus after exhausting my body has helped though. But the above link has alot of great information that's been gathered over years of contact between a number of practitioners via web-forums, e-mail, etc; comparing my personal experiences with theres, I'm really quite novice, as they equate the highest unitary states that they have reached with true samadhi or zero-pointedness, with a period of one-pointedness being a plateau along the way.

The most profound I've felt is a sort of twilight state, where things are much more vibrant and seem to be emitting light. It's similar to the afterglow of a mushroom trip, when the pupils are still heavily dilated and the vision is augmented. Audial hallucinations are also common as the walls between the subconscious and consciousness deteriorate.

I know most people are skeptical of profound altered states of consciousness, but once you experience even a taste of what's possible it really is a powerful pursuit. My biggest barrier now is getting rid of old learned behavior patterns that consequently make practice more difficult.

Nice link... very interesting technique.

Perhaps you would be interested in posting about Somafera on this thread I started about "Methods of achieving mystical states & spiritual knowledge."

It happens to me though sometimes while still awake in my bed at night where I will start to see all the patterns on my closed eyelids and in the dark room around me. It might not be DMT, or DMT alone but it definatily resembles a mixture of tryptamines and beta-carbolines.

Good point. In believe that since I was brought up on fluoride-free Reverse Osmosis water and good nutrition (thanks Mom!), my pineal gland is not as calcified as some. I have always been prone to lucid dreams and OBE's and it's very easy for me to induce these as well. I don't know if there's a correlation there or not but it's very possible.

On a related note, I had an interesting DMT-like psychedelic experience a few days ago- sober. I was laying down meditating with eyes closed and not even 10 minutes in I suddenly saw a flash of the most beautiful colored psychedelic fractals moving and morphing in my entire field of vision. It only lasted a second or so but was powerful enough to snap me out of my meditation with a "WHAT THE FUC*K WAS THAT?"

I was not asleep or dreaming and I was not even experiencing hypnagogic imagery yet. I believe I had inadvertently activated a burst of endogenous DMT. I don't know how I did it though.