A subjective experience with objective, measurable physiological effects.



I'm not "accosting you". If you would lose the attitude you might be treated a little nicer. The universe reflects back what you put out.

I'm sorry for offending you, let's find a common ground like the topic of this thread maybe?

Back to the topic....

but then again...

Brawling Priests

I really like the Dali Lama..

However..buddhism comes with it's own set of dogmas..yes Buddhism has had a shaky history just like other religion, and yes people who practiced tibetan forms of shamanism that pre-date buddhism were at one point murdered by buddhist monks. Before defneding buddhism as some ultimate pure path and bashing another religion for it's dogmas remember that the buddhism that such a person like the Dali Lama seems to represent is not always mirrored within the historical past.

You know there are christian gnostics out there just as enlightened in their approach as any buddhist..

I like buddhism for some of it's philosophies. I dont adhere to it as a "buddhist" though because I do see some dogma that I just dont vibe with. I love the Dali Lama and think he is one of the most level headed spiritual teachers out there in the public eye. The guy makes a great leader.

I dont really agree though with trying to persuade someone to adopt one ism for another ism. Ism's are funny things that people tend to try to fit their world views around and defend in so many funny ways. They are useful but just tools in the end.

Why does someone really need to follow buddhism?..or hinduism, christianity, islam, judaism or the plethora of other ism's?

Do you think at the dawn of time(whatever the hell that even means) there was something of an "ism"? There just was. like I said ism's can be useful tools but if you define yourself as some sort of strict adherant to this or that ism I think there is something to be missed.

Oh please. You pick out a few nice-sounding verses but ignore the hateful, cruel, contradicting, and violent ones? Or the ones commanding you to worship god or burn in hell for eternity? Have you forgotten about the victim mentality and guilt complexes that they produce?

If you don't have any reasons to not become christian, please don't post anything. And if you feel that strongly about it, start your own thread or PM me.

yea, you're not being arrogant or ignorant
the universe seems to be one-way, huh

That's not my intention, I was hoping she would use aspects of Buddhism such as gratitude, compassion, meditation, and mindfulness instead of reverting to her christian upbringing.

I never said that Jesus didn't disapprove of Mosaic Law. Jesus had to speak to his people in terms of the Old Testament, for they were radical adherents; however, they also infused their own tradition with the Law, in which case Jesus had to correct them. Obviously he was doing something right, for they branded him as a heretic and wanted him crucified. The link I posted discussed the binding nature of Mosaic Law in correlation to the feats of Jesus. Plus, this all ties in to how one should view Jesus, as aforementioned. I personally have never concluded that he was some divine being.



Is the comparison bogus, friend?



I don't appreciate being labeled as a "closet-Christian," nor the criticism of my agnostic stance. Also, my personal beliefs are incompatible with the teachings of Jesus or Christendom as a whole. That does not mean I cannot admire the man, as even Nietzsche did. You talk about proselytizing, but were you not the person who posted arguments of how God cannot exist in the first page, when the topic was about how to move an individual towards Eastern-oriented religion from Christianity?

It's not that I'm being arrogant or ignorant, and I'm sorry you see it that way, it's just that I want to keep this thread on topic. This isn't supposed to be a debate, it's very specific in it's intention and I never pretended for it to be otherwise.

Citta didn't say that I did. I'm not proselytizing any religion, I'm encouraging my aunt to seek a path that will benefit her, not close her mind and fill her with fear and guilt.

If you're offended by my thread, don't read it. Their are plenty of other threads here.

You asked for information for persuading someone to drift away from Christian thought towards Eastern-oriented thought. Citta did, in combination with arguments for how God in general cannot exist. I don't believe you asked for that in your original post. I'm not offended by the thread. Your aunt is in an unfortunate situation and you're simply trying to console her in the best way you can. I just think that there's a thin line that distinguishes the life and teachings of Jesus from Eastern thought.

If you really need reasons?
1. the dogma as soo many others even all have.
2. the storys are full of so much easly proven flaws..
3. how could any sane person believe this is the true one?
4. the violence it has brought on the world as soo many others have.
5. the jealousy that the entity reeks of for selfish gain.
6. the fear it instills if you do not obay.
7. the way so many lost there lives if they did not convert.

look.. there are many as with sooo many other religions.. people when in great turmoil grasp what they have been raised to believe as a safty line... i think just let them have it... imo.. it will not truly matter. there will be no punishment what ever they choose.. but if it gives them even a little hope in there daily lives.. it should be there,s to enjoy... now i hope this helped.. its the best i can offer..love and gratitude is the best thing to share with her for her time with you...much love and respect for you trouble..i hope you find the answer that can sit well with your heart... but??? we are talking about her heart? right<3 love to you... Oden

"If you don't have any reasons to not become christian, please don't post anything"

...you really are planning on going to someone with a list of reasons to not become a christian?..what about the reasons to not adhere to other religions like buddhism etc?

Sounds sort of manipulative to be honest, even if you dont intend it to be that way. Bring them some spiritual literature that is free from these lables or something maybe and let them decide for themselves.

Yes that I understand. I just dont get how you can hand all of that to someone. If it were that easy everyone would get it by now and the world would be a very different place. treat someone with respect and maybe you can hope that they will understand that and see it for themselves. Try to tell them that respect is a better way and they will most likely resent you shut out anything else you have to say.

People have to experience first hand IMO or it means nothing but a bunch of words.

I hope you would not use the list i made.. to change anyone,s minds cause you could use that same list on any religion... it was B.S it is there only cause you seem to need something to end this thread? it is just getting mean.. i think (jamie) said it well...Sounds sort of manipulative to be honest..... cause if your worried about her soul? it,s going to be fine<3 teach her to laugh more! forgive herself more! and have a great LIFE!!!<3

How about the type of Christianity put forth by Swedenborg?

Johny Appleseed seems pretty cool to me.

I'm just saying that maybe x-tianity does not need to be so fear-based and all that.

Reason and logic should sway against all religions not just christianity - You should just help her through the dark times without needing the crutch of religion.

I just wanted to say I apologize to easyrider, benzyme, and anyone else I might have offended for any hard feelings I might have caused. I don't don't like hurting people in any way. I just had a powerful dream in which I was hurting my friend's feelings and when I woke up I thought of this thread and anyone I may have offended, so I take that as a message. I consider you all my online friends- brothers and sisters as different manifestations of the same field of consciousness. I don't know you, but I love you all, you are all special. (although not in a special olympics way)



Generally Eastern thought is more empowering and less damaging than Christianity, so that's the direction I want to point her in. No crutches, no religion.

Thank you all for posting, I'm now prepared to make my case against Christianity.

Ragabar much is know about the historical context of Buddhism and most scholars have no problem saying what is myth and what is not. Hell many Buddhist don't even consider rebirth a core tenant and chose to not believe it....yes that is true. The teaching of rebirth is utterly irrelevant to the Buddhas core teaching...as are most all of the tibetan traditions.



Go read "In the Buddha's Words" for a historical commentary Ragabr. There is a reason why the Pali Canon is held in such high esteem. It's not because it's the oldest, but because it's the most complete. Buddhism actually started fragmenting in his lifetime. Within a few years after his death there were several major schools of thought and most of these were eventually lost to Islamic invaders. Of the remaining texts the Pali Canon was the most complete of the old schools. It is not just Theravada, but all sects of Buddhism draw from them.

History was better to Buddhism than Christianity...and that ain't saying much. I'm sorry it is just the way it is. You trying to make Buddhism like Christianity simply won't work because we have so much more evidence and historical accounting with regards to Buddhist thought than we do Christian thought.

Unfortunately it appears as though rome hijacked Christianity and destroyed what it didn't like and put on pedestal what it did like...much like china tried to do with Buddhism...it's just that parts of Buddhism escaped to other parts of the world...Christianity wasn't as lucky. The result was a bastion of a religion that is a hollow shell of what I suspect was a once great spiritual tradition. It is not any more. Today it is a religion and I'd say less than 0.1% of Christians world wide practice any real spiritual practice like meditation. Prayer and meditation are NOT the same thing. Not by a long shot. I wish we could uncover the real historical Jesus as much as the next guy. I suspect he really was like the Buddha...but there is no evidence yet...maybe the gnostics, but they are incomplete.

I'll also admit plenty of Buddhists are no better than Christians, but Buddhism as a whole is a religion of logic and Christianity (as it is today) is a religion based around blind faith.



Show many any equivalent from any segment of any abrahamic religion. Any of them.

Signs of true spiritual growth!
Takes a big human to come back and openly apologize for harshness.

Peace

this

I get really upset when I read/hear someone say "all I/we can do is pray for ___ ".
it's the most passive, uneffective way of addressing anything. all it does is give the person
praying some misguided peace of mind, an illusory way of dealing with issues of the world, IMO.
I'd rather put my head in the sand.

meditation is what prayer should be, but 99 out of 100 times, isn't.