I have just come out of one of the most terrifying experiences I have ever had, with or without psychedelics.

Earlier today, I took 100 grams of cielo ayahuasca with 7 grams chaliponga. However, I had been awake for more than 24 hours when I did, and upon reaching the space, I passed out. In fact, I don't even remember going to sleep.

I woke up around 10 PM, and my wife's family decided to do christmas in the early AM hours, so that everyone would be awake. It was nice and wholesome.

After this, I went to scrape up some spice that had been precipitating, and decided to take a hit. I loaded 26 milligrams in the VG, and prepared myself, finally taking a single large hit with a jet lighter.

Oh, how to explain what happened to me?
From the word go, I knew something had misfired. The visuals were in the general DMT form, but there was something horrifying about them. I was caught in what felt like a whirlpool, the same moment repeating itself endlessly in a womp womp womp womp womping fashion. Time had slowed to what I can only assume was the planck constant, making each second an eternity. The visuals were coming in a terrifying frequency, barraging me and looping back on themselves again and again, taking my mind with them. I can only describe it as a "loop", with nothing new happening, only the same moment again and again and again. I opened my eyes, and began to have this awful feeling that I had transported myself into a shadow parallel-dimension a fraction of a hair's breadth away from ours, in which all the objects in the room had been replaced by its dimensional "shadow". I mean to say, everything looked similar, but in fact had been switched out. I began to seriously fear that I would never be able to return to normal, that I was stuck in this place, this strange repository of moments that had already occurred and were no longer occurring - or purgatory. I can't say how long it lasted, and I wasn't sure that I was still on earth and so waited until it was absolutely unbearable to go get my wife. Having her there calmed me considerably, as it proved that I was still here and not actually in this place that I feared I was in. However, the visuals persisted, ebbing and flowing in 10 second intervals...

This experience was EXCEEDINGLY strange and EXTRAORDINARILY terrifying. There were NO entities, not even a felt presence. In fact, the bleak de-populated quality was perhaps the strangest part of the whole experience. It wasn't normal DMT space, it didn't look the same or feel the same... it was some other place, some in-between-realm. It seemed like it was an unfinished portion of hyperspace, or a discarded failure that somehow lingered on in the shadows... it was horrifying. I was pleading for it to stop, something I have never done. Begging, more like it. Like "OK ok ok! Enough now, please stop, please please please stop I'll do anything just stop!", but it just kept going. That was the worst part, it just kept going and going with my perception of time going so slow that it stretched it out into an eternity. It made me reconsider this substance, or realize that it is just as capable of inducing a hell-scape as any paradisiacal realms.

This shit is some SERIOUS JU-JU!! NOT TO BE BLITHELY FUCKED WITH! I have been considering what it could have been that caused this, as 26 milligrams is on the small side of the doses I have taken, and can only think that it was the ayahuasca from earlier. However, I took the ayahuasca more than 12 hours previous, and I didn't think MAO inhibition from harmalas lasted that long... I was apparently WRONG! Has anyone here ever experienced this place, or a similar state? Has anyone had extreme experiences like this from freebase mixed with MAOI?

Oh man you guys, it's so nice to be a human being and not stuck in a personal purgatory!!



EDIT: This report doesn't contain a FRACTION of what happened to me. I can't really explain it using only words... but I feel like I really need help integrating this experience and would really appreciate any replies...

This is exactly the feeling i always get with chaliponga brews. It´s very weird..especially when you consider that endlesness´ tests showed no significant differences in the content of alkaloids between chaliponga and chacruna.
I just find chaliponga a bit 'spooky'.


Yes, like i said. But the real strange thing is that you had this experience the day after taking this caapi-chaliponga mixture, after vaporising just 26mg´s of DMT.

100 grams of caapi is quite a large dose, though. Not extremely large, but still. Large doses of harmala´s do have some weird effects sometimes.

yeah I've used chaliponga lots of times and it is sortof a "spooky" one and a wildcard at that, but nothing ever quite like this. Also, the brew was taken probably 15 hours previous, I didn't know MAO inhibition lasted that long?!

Besides my radically slowed perception of time, the visuals persisted 30 minutes to an hour, which is what I would expect for vaporized DMT + MAOI...

with the hideous looping of the same moment AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN lasting probably 10 earth-minutes...

I seriously thought that I had been physically transported to this place and was to be incarcerated for eternity. At least now, with this awful experience under my belt, I will be more able to calm myself and realize that it will eventually end...

Most definately. Terrifying psychedelic experiences can make you stronger...you just have to accept that all of this has happened to you and find peace with that.

I had one trip in particular where in the morning I drank 30g white caapi tea. Later that evening/night I had some 2:1 changa with caapi leaf/cannabis/dmt. I pre-dosed some extracted harmalas sublingually before vaping the changa. So 30g brew early a.m. + pre-dosed harmalas + changa equaled "the most heavy/intense/visually/mentally challenging and terrifying experiences of my life.

Me and a friend were sitting in the back garage and I was sitting in this plush lawn chair. Two huge lungfuls later (first held for about 15-20sec then 2nd hit held indef) IT 100% didn't matter if my eyes were closed or open. I was stuck in this endless loop like you described with that "waampp" effect. I could not make out a single object in the garage. Reality just kept exploding, exploding, exploding, exploding,.....and on and on and on and on. And that coupled with the fact that time just COMPLETELY flattens out until your no longer. It lasted for a good 20 minutes (my friend as reference) and the glow lasted well past the hour mark. It was one of the most humbling experiences though imho.

That RAW-ness to it all. So hunbling.

..hey, the good news is you're back here, coherently sharing this harrowing sounding experience with like-minded people..
..this happened to me once when combining high dose smoked harmalas and P.cubensis..i had eaten nothing all day but an icing coated raisin bun, and it was the distant knowledge that this aspect of the experience was toxicological/metabolic which gave me hope while riding it out..
..my shamanic opinion (which is quiet to date on the net) believes that this is also partly a result of toxins, not having a sufficient dieta, or not being somehow prepared enough on the occassion..there are places similar to Castenada's 'realms of the inorganic beings', or what dzogchen may map in the 'hell realms'..
as much as MAOIs can enhance higher states they can, when the system is a little down, enhance lower states..other subtances in the body can attract the wrong kinds of spirits, who do not work with you on your path
..i try to remember - if it doesn't feel like home it's not me..there's 'interference' i must work on..

Heavens and Hells, like Aldous wrote..all experienced voyagers have had 'falls'..we learn from them, even if the cause is not clear at the time..
whatever it means for you, AlluminumFoilRobot, it will make you stronger..
thanks for sharing

respect

Thanks everyone for the thoughtful replies. I am very thankful that this virtual space exists, and that we can compare notes and co-analyze our experiences. I love the DMT-nexus!

@ polytrip: I do feel stronger for having had this experience, as it gives me a reference point for any future such experiences. I am just glad that this happened to me and not to my wife or someone less able to cope - as even I was getting to pure panic-mode and before I got my wife I was about to start writhing around and banging my head on stuff!

@DMTtripn2Space: I'm "glad" that you have had such a similar experience with this combination, as in that it gives the comfort of knowing I am not the only one who has been to this awful place... that I am not alone in having been to this bleak parallel-world.

@nen888: Thank you. As the experience began to wane, I had the strong impression that what I had just gone through was the result of jumping into the churning depths without a life-vest, that is without proper shamanic preparation or protection. I well knew the risks, what I was getting myself into when I began, but I still wasn't prepared for this... I felt the need for a shaman's magic to weave some protection around me...

Again, thanks everyone for the replies...!

It should be noted that during this experience I had the strong urge to start dancing, and when I did start dancing later on once it had calmed down I felt immediately better. I recognized the dancing from a previous high-dose mushroom experience that I ha, it's like twisting my arms in a very odd, alien-like fashion with my hands forming spontaneous mudras, reminding me of Shiva's dance.

I feel that if I had simply begun to do this while being assaulted by the endless looping, I would have gained perspective on what happened to me. It was like being shown reality as it truly is, an endless cycle, never beginning and never ceasing. I wish I had started with the spontaneous mudras, as I feel it could have turned the experience from horrifying to revelatory...

has anyone experienced these spontaneous mudras, the hands and arms twisting and dancing in a way you've never been trained to do and/or is not part of your cultural/religious experience?

Yes, this is a lot more common than you think with DMT.

I just looked up a list of mudras, and found a few that I noticed I was doing repeatedly: Utpalapadma "prohibitive" or asking "who are you", Pataka, Arala "blessing for males", Bhramara "picking flowers or removing thorns", Sadumsho "taking out thorns or picking flowers" or "when pearls are pierced", as well as "alapallava"

Lots of "picking flowers and removing thorns" mudras. Will have to look into those.

You are stagnant until you flow.

OK, I've been thinking about your statement above all night, house. Could you give me a little bit more? I mean as to the more esoteric side of your statement...

are you saying that this was somehow due to my not jumping on the mudras as a way to get myself out of this state? That's what my wife said, that the stuff was there giving me the tools to work my way out of the shadow-world I was in and the recursive visual assault but I didn't take advantage...


I should say that after this all resolved, I do not feel any malice from the spice. It wasn't a "wrathful deity" experience, I didn't feel like I was being punished or anything - just that I had inadvertently stumbled into what I keep calling a "moment-repository" or "dead-space"... kindof like a DMT version of that movie "The Langoliers"! It was the duration and recursive nature of the visuals that was freaking me out so much....

I also have since realized that this was my first go with the jet lighter, and so I may have gotten all the spice that may have been melted in the screens, and this along with diminished MAO in my system led to this strange and harrowing experience...

..re: jet lighters - too high a temperature can partially destroy or change the extracts, leading to odd or diminished experiences..
and smoked MAOIs are more likely to lead to unpredictable complications than pure tryptamines alone IMO.. (as all amines in the system are now less able to be broken down)
.

hm yeah I haven't said until now but I had a weird feeling that the jet lighter had something to do with it... but I wasn't smoking the harmalas, I had taken 100 grams caapi about 15 hours previous!

I was made into a hamster, running the eternal loop, constantly exerting all my energy just to keep myself and my world alive, with the same "womping" effect. This happened at the end of an amazingly beautiful mushroom/pharmahuasca combination. Looking back, it seems like it was some kind of joke/illusion, but also a test of my resolve, my will to live, and my ability to surrender and go with the flow. It was both exhilarating and exhausting, but it left me feeling pretty invincible, because if I can survive that I can survive almost anything.