So one of my cousins is 17 and psychedelics have been on her radar for a couple of years. She's begun smoking pot this year due to what I think may be an escape from reality (crappy home situation).. then graduated to legal highs (ingesting unknown chemicals), and just recently 1/2 of a blotter of LSD. It was probably very weak acid as she didn't see any epic colors, just fast thoughts, being more in the present moment.. time slowed down a bit..


I really like that kid and I don't have any issues discussing any of this stuff with her, I also try to not tell her what she should or should not do, but I'm getting a bit worried. Most of us have been 17 so I guess some of the recklessness and impulsive behavior is accounted for, but...

What really concerns me is that she's had this strange fears for quite some years now, for example fear of clowns and fear of the dark. After the acid experience she says she's getting scared more easily, sometimes apparently seeing "things" in the corner of her eye.

Just the other day we were playing some ping pong at night and the ball flew to this abandoned terrain/house. Our rules says whoever fucks up goes fetch the ball, so she was up to jumping the fence and go in - the ball wasn't very far, maybe 5 meters.

Right after she jumped she froze and begun looking around slowly with a fearful look on her face. Immediately I could, even though I've never suffered from anything similar, sense the wind making the leaves move, and how everything seemed to be closing in, the darkness slowly shifting in the background. It didn't scare me, I guess I automatically begun interpreting what was scaring her in that moment.

Anyway, after some sweet talking/calming down she went and grabbed the ball, then quickly ran to the fence and jumped back to the street.

I'm giving this example to put things in perspective. She's expressed some concern about the heightened fears since trying acid (even though she liked the experience.. what would happen with 200 mcg remains to be seen:shock, even asking me if I thought she was losing it (I said no).


I tried telling her, even before she went on and tried it, that perhaps it would be wise to wait a bit longer, wait for the right time. It didn't quite work, evidently. It appears that she's going to devour 2 blotters in the new year's eve, and I'm left wondering if I should try to interfere (reasoning with her) or not. The people providing the acid are kids her age, and from what she told me, they were basically all baked or also on acid during her trip. Cellphones were on, they went rambo on the streets shortly after peaking.. yeah.


She does listen to some of what I say though, and I think a good deal of that is because she knows she can talk to me about anything, and that I won't judge.

Of course all I wish for her is a fantastic experience (in my experience psychedelics may even help with eliminating the fears, but I don't think it's the right approach for all cases, you gotta be able to handle it), but in light of her phobias and the set and setting (or lack of knowledge about its importance), what do you think? Am I just being overprotective?

I'm not sure what the next best move here is.. I'm convinced that due to crappy set/setting and anxiety/fear, she's setting herself up for an experience so terrible she can't even conceive it yet. This I have not told her, so that her mind space isn't "contaminated" should she decide to go forward with it. The worst thing is that she does not yet realize she can detach from the emotion and just observe it, altough there's been some progress there.

I don't know, just needed to share the story.. if you got something similar, please share. I love that kid and would hate to see something terrible happen. But this same feeling is clouding my risk assessment, I can't weigh this one properly.

Thoughts, opinions?

I've had a very similar experience to yours nexalizer. I also have a cousin who has this interest in psychedelics and he first tried acid at 15, a half a hit just like your cousin did. He said he really liked it and that he wanted to do it again and knew I had done psychedelics and asked me about it. Being that he is one of the only cousins of mine that I really genuinely like I told him about some of my experiences with an approach as to not promote or condemn psychedelics. I told him I was concerned that he had tried acid at such an early age and that though I first tried psychedelics at 17 myself, he would appreciate the experience a lot more if he just waited a few years. I think that as long as you are genuine with how you approach dealing with you cousin things will work out alright. I would be sure to tell her the cons that come with abuse though just so she knows what she's getting into as to make sure it doesn't become a habit at such an early age. Like I said as long as you are genuine and tell her that you are worried things will work out, because we all know teenagers are going to do what they are going to do.

Hey PrimateSphinx, thanks for sharing your story; Here are a few more thoughts concerning the subject at hand..


Upon request, I've also been sharing some of my psychedelic adventures with her.

You are right when you say teenagers are gonna do what they're gonna do.

I guess what's really tripping me up (:lol is the fears she has. Now I guess most people have fear of something, but man, you had to see the look on her face.

You know, say you have fear of A. Eventually you realize you have to do A and show yourself there's nothing to be afraid of (after you learned to separate "functional fears" (like running from a lion) from "irrational fears" -- I know the distinction is a bit arbitrary, I stopped and thought for awhile about better words to describe what I perceive to be two different kinds of fears; this is the best I could come up with right now -- if someone cannot yet do this in ordinary consciousness, attempting to do so when time is standing still and reality as you knew it is (possibly literally) melting away.. it doesn't seem right, it's like you can't solve the basic problem and now you're attempting to solve an infinitely more complex version of the same thing. Gotta start from the start.


I don't necessarily think there's something wrong with her brain chem or something, just that there may be some unresolved issues there. We don't see each other very often these days because I no longer live in this area, altough I make regular appearances; We've been probing this issue for some time and I think she's beginning to realize a few things on her own about it - she can be very introspective.


My concern is that a full-on psychedelic experience may be too much for her to handle psychologically.. It's just an intuition, something tells me that not being able to unfreeze in fear situations and being exposed to a psychedelic session may result in a deeply tormenting experience - I think most psychonauts have at some point faced some sort of eternal (and you don't know the meaning of eternal until you've been there, if you know what I mean) self-imposed hell.

To me even those experiences, altough terrifying while happening, gave me something to munch about later. And boy was I grateful to be alive afterwards

Maybe some 17yos are ready to deal with that sort of stuff; I know I wasn't when I was 17, and I think she isn't psychologically mature enough, yet.

I don't know man, I'll be with her in a couple of days, guess I'll take her for a walk and talk some more about this.

It might be best to find out her motives for taking LSD, whether it be escapism, healing, mind travel, etc. From what you describe about her fears maybe lsd could be beneficial in helping her face those fears, but who knows it could have the opposite effect. I dunno it seems like she trusts you so maybe you could be a sitter to make sure nothing goes wrong? because from what you said it seems like she's pretty set on doing it, unless you really think you should convince her otherwise which if you do so good luck. If she does so I would at least pound it into her head that her first time doing 2 hits of lsd should not be at party, I think that would definitely be a bad move considering her irrational fears you mentioned. Either way good luck with you cousin nexalizer, I hope all goes well.

Nexalizer, Everything here you probably already know, and is just opinion.

200 mcg seems to be the dosage where one has a trip that is sufficient enough to cause some introspection. I know when I was 17, I took several weaker hits of acid that contained more impurities until I got 200 mcg of LSD25. (Russian Acid) That experience left me with allot to work on internally. The integration time was longer than usual, and I did have some hppd to work through, but the experience changed my perspective throughout most of my young adult life. If I could do it all again, I would have rather had a better set & setting for the experience with the LSD25 as well as a sitter. I also would have wanted to have had a full 200 mcg dose up front to begin with, because I feel doing so would have led me to respect integration time, as well as dissuaded me from taking smaller doses beforehand. The stronger the will power, and the better one is at being their own introspective therapist, the more competent the traveler IMHO. Without a sitter I hope she does not have a white out experience.

I found spending a fair amount of time into philosophical research left me with more questions than answers, and that was exactly what brought me to psychedelics in the first place. I found time and time again growing up that those who used psychedelics for inner exploration from a place of respect for themselves intellectually (beforehand) stood to learn more from the experience, had more places to explore inside their heads during a trip, and came out of the experiences relatively unscathed in comparison with those who used psychedelics for recreation, just for fun, due to boredom, or running from themselves. Needless to say those who did not take these things seriously consumed mass acid, and became wasteoid vegetables.

A good exorcize I've found is to write down fundamental conflicts one sees in life, deep philosophical questions, fundamental questions you want answers for about yourself, concerns you wish to change in your attitude or behavior, perspectives you wish to explore, and so it goes ad nauseam until you have a list one can reflect on before bed time. Revisiting these thoughts, and repeating them as you drift off to sleep as a sincere request for the subconscious to help us in the dream state is a powerful way to incant a trips end point beforehand.

Nexalizer, your concerns come from experience, are validated, and are well warranted. This is not to say the approach of walking on eggshells with a teenager where you do not want to break tenuous respect/rapport by approaching things by a apologist slant is not tiring. I too have mentored many teens transitioning the parental rebellious state with a great emphasis on personal freedom for the individual. I find we feel released from obligation by disclaimer for experiences that would otherwise cause undue suffering. I would emphasize how a body/brain is a one shot tool that can withstand much, but too much of any one thing can cause life long repercussions, and how we each have the rest of our lives to experiment in that as one gets older it does not necessarily mean you will have no means to explore consciousness.

The importance to wait until safer substances are available so that you can get the most experiences, the safest experiences, the most meaningful experiences, and deeper experience is far more worth it than rushing a bit on some crazy drug with no protocol, getting burnt from a bad experience, and having to break from psychedelics for a decade or longer. Waiting for time and setting with an emphasis on brain health in how it's enhancement of experience can lead to love/bliss perfection states of being that far outweigh the small cost of set and personal preparation are far in contrast to those mediocre trips. What you learn the weeks/months since your last trip should aid you in what questions you now seek in your future trip you are planning. Explain how a good trip is something you can revisit, relive, and glean insight from, where multiple (blah.. low dosage whatever recreational) trips doing what you usually do (hang the streets, chill with friends) will lead to a continuum of confusion, sense of dysphoria, and general lackadaisical nature in relation to reality, taking it seriously, and gleaning any insights at all from your said experiences.

Dare I be so bold as to suggest you suggest to her that you sit for her? Also, an acid trip where one tries to go internal with a blindfold can intensify the experience substantially. I would recommend she have someone there for her to comfort her if she attempts to confront her fears, but she needs self assurance nothing can harm her on a trip, anything she experiences on a trip that is strong you can pass through, sidestep, integrate (swallow) fade away from, etc, but that confronting fears on a psychedelic as they arise is a personal journey where their is no right way to deal with them, however moving past our fears is a rite of initiation the world over, and is a serious strengthening and galvanizing of our will. I would not recommend use of a larger dose of LSD than what one is accustomed to when confronting fears.

What you avoid will become larger, more animated, more repression leading to more speculation of what "it" is, and the more indirect focus put upon something that triggers fear just makes you more messed up. I recommend tackling the feeling of fear. If you can experience the feeling and realize "Hey! It's just a feeling!" then you can move past it. One has to choose how they want to move through it. Also, knowing "this too shall pass", and that it cannot affect you unless you pay attention to it (the fear) are both powerful ways of dealing with it.

Each of us have points where we doubt ourselves. (wind blowing, spooky stuff in the air) This causes a void, and our subconscious begins to worm it's way in to animate it from the recesses of our mind. Some of this instinctual behavior patterned into fear serves us in some circumstances. It's when we choose when we would like or want this (to allow it) to control us (for fun) or turn it on or off is the single most important aspect of this experience. Recounting imaginatively how many times animals have stalked, hunted, chased, and killed each other in the wild, and imagining the sensations a wild animal experiences right before a predator pounces, leaps, or strikes after the prey imagining how these fight or flight reflexes disable our neocortex's reasoning overwriting judgement and raising our sensitivity to our senses is all a physiological transformation first, then a mental head change afterwards all helps us in unraveling our fear.

One must question ones self "Wouldn't I have a better chance of survival to remain calm and collected during times I was being hunted?". If so, then one can choose not to loose ones head space. Once one has practiced concentration meditation one can use this means to get quickly re-centered and focused. Following breath can help too.

2 blotters might be a bit much depending on strength. I would say master fear first, then practice sensory deprivation in order to go deeper, then see about upping dosage. Of course, this is only my opinion, not my recommendation.

Personally I find that even ~100mcg is good for introspection, but it's still in "active mode". With 200mcg, I think you're gonna get it, whether you want it or not.



Same here.



I have similar observations.



Cool, thanks for sharing. I usually take a day off to reflect about what I want from the trip and clear my mind of work/responsibilities.. basically dedicate the headspace to exploration.



She's a curious, smart teen, but I don't think she realizes the possibilities yet. We've seen some documentaries together, they seem to catch her attention better than books/long articles. It's interesting to look back and see the evolution/shifts in her reasoning/opinion... they're gaining.. texture.


While in the mean time (we were together some days before xmas) she's changed the plan from 2 blotters in a party to 2 blotters
with a 13yo-friend-in-an-urban-garden, I fear that she's still grossly underestimating the power of the stuff.

I think you're right when you commented above about walking on eggshells. Maybe indeed I am being too overprotective. I do think that a rough trip can sometimes set things straight, perhaps what she needs is one of these and then, lesson learned, you know. I understand (this applies not just with psychedelics, ofc) that by trying to protect too much, I may be in a way denying her an experience that would actually help her progress further.

Maybe it's just the unknown variables (I've always had a good grip on fear, and learned to observe and reason about it long before any acid - so getting totally locked up because it's dark and windy is very, very alien to me), my major concern is that she freaks out. That is not bad in itself, if it leads to a direct confrontation with what's holding you back; then you're either very strong mentally or you need someone there to remind you that you can deal with it, at least the first time!



I would love to (trip sitting is one of my favorite hobbies.. as real as it gets, you know what I mean) and told her as much! I won't be around for the new year's eve and for some time after that, as I said in a previous post, I don't really live around there anymore, but do visit regularly. I said hey why don't you wait until spring/summer and we'll drive to the mountains, have a nice trip outdoors etc. She said sure, but this is some
6 months away still.

I personally would be very worried about an inexperienced, fearful 17 year old taking LSD with a 13 year old friend, especially out of doors. Whatever is going on with your cousin will most likely not be helped by being arrested. Do you know any trustworthy soul who can sit for her and will be in the area?

I think that the best way for her to be introduced to more intense psychedelic experiences would be something powerful but short-lasting. I would not have been nearly as ready for LSD if I hadn't tried salvia first. And salvia lasts only a few minutes, so the introduction to more powerful psychedelics will be short, regardless of how frightening it may be.

You need to help her understand the difference between dark & pure entities. These clowns are nothing but the dark energy messing with her head.

to nexalizer: more opinions;

Respect for psychedelics comes from catalyzing experiences. Respect in regards to set and setting come with each experience as insights into the self become more apparent over time. The contemplation of a preliminary psychedelic experience is something that the mind will automatically revisit from time to time over years in the future. I comfort myself from apprehensions for others experiences in accepting this is all an ongoing process that continues on over the course of a lifetime.

I see this random reminiscing as an important feature in procuring the attitude of respect which allows each traveler to see the potential for maximizing a psychedelic experience through proper mental preparation. Since we cannot know what hangups each person has to subdue in order to prepare their heads before their next trip, and neither can the initiate until their initial experience where they're forced to confront the totality of self, it is only until a catalyzing experience is under their belt that they can better monitor their internal landscape in order to intuit or create the proper head space or sense the proper time for an experience.

I find "holding" said psychedelic substance hidden in a jewelry box, or having said psychedelic substance of "known" quality/purity for the next time, then forgetting you have it so you are not tempted to use it impulsively is a good modality. Sometimes the proper time and place are not readily available due to constraints of responsibility/job, but nothing is worse than having the time, space, and substance without having a like minded person as a sitter "on call" so to speak.

Facing fear can have several outcomes. The worst is avoidance of the fear, and having a fear based in the psychedelic experience prohibiting you from ever wanting to trip again. More exploration of self between voyages can lead to deeper insights and inner strengthening thus potentializing the usefulness of their next psychedelic experience. If facing fear leads to no resolution, but rather an overwhelming intensity of said fear, I can only imagine this could also lead one on multiple paths.

One path might be experiencing fear as an access point to not venture into in the future without more self control next time in order one does not evoke unnecessary emotional trauma in revisiting the psychedelic experience. Sometimes confronting the path leading up to fear during a psychedelic experience can help them in identifying how not to let the onset of fear turn into an out of control experience in daily life. Other times the fear experience can sober someone as to have a "choice" over experiencing fear, or acknowledgement in how they bring it upon them self, or a precursor insight into the trigger that lead the fear response so in that cognitive function they can supersede the physiological experience of fear all together.

Yet other times the fear experience leads us to a long ongoing conscious effort to confront the root of said fear contemplatively in the weeks and months following the trip, and can lead to insights into how our past emotional experiences forge our current consciousness. Others may find a fear experience to be immersive enough to let it flow through the human emotional body during the trip, and may experience the insight of how to let fear wash through them in every day experiences afterward. Yet again, some learn how not to spiritualize fear from environment, and control psychosomatic thought processes through being mindful over "what is permitted" in everyday reality in contrast to what is experienced through paying mind to imaginative fearful prey instincts.

Sometimes "being in control" (in real life) so to speak can come from simply imagining that you will eat that scary dark critter you saw out of the corner of your eye, refusing to run away, demanding you face it, standing up, facing towards it, feeling a mean "I will eat you" blood thirst", scanning with your eyes to see if the threat is actual, or perceived until the anxiety goes away, and then going back to what ever you were doing. =) Sometimes this inner strength comes from challenging psychedelic voyages where after integration time (and insights from the nexus *winks*) one can better discern reality v.s. mental perception. (Although to the brain their is hardly any difference outside of logical analytical compartmentalization via reasoning with ones self)

The worst thing one can do in the face of paralyzing fear during a psychedelic experience is to feel small, vulnerable, and to never realize that by focusing on being scared you are feeding a negative feedback loop in your brain making the fear more stronger through indirectly paying attention to it by being the victim (soaking in the agonizing terror, or focusing on the paralyzing out of control aspect of it) opposed to taking responsibility so far in if you don't want a nightmare, "think of something else!". (In other words refusing to acknowledge you have a choice in said experience)

Seeing how it should be a type of responsibility to acknowledge this inherent lesson in some form or fashion preferably before said psychedelic experience, in answering your question of "What is the right move here?" I answer make her aware of this said responsibility in her perceptual framework. Once you have explained it to the best of your ability I believe you are helping her to be aware of a facet in how she can self monitor through an experience in a way a majority of pioneer psychedelic explorers only learned "the hard way".

Dare I say the less we bite off each trip, (as long as we got a good bite) the less we have to contemplatively chew on. Conversely the more insightful, warm, and meaningful the reflections will be upon our experience where their is no aspect of the trip that felt overwhelming/terrifying. By integrating at a comfortable rate we stand to evolve our modalities for consciousness with more attention to detail. This gives more control in how much preoccupation our minds pay to this process throughout the integrative period following a psychedelic experience. The retrospective reminiscing and daydreaming brings gleams of insight. One analogy could be that it's our sacred responsibility to bring ourselves to the operating table in good health so the ego killing / future introspection goes smoothly according to plan. An open mind & acceptance of all that is to come, pure connection to divine will, and good/proper intent all go into the compass/direction to which we are going to be shot out of the cannon, you just want to make sure you have that peaceful resolve to fall back upon in case things get hairy & there's no better way of that then to observe that place, remember it, and practice returning to that state before tripping balls/ovum.

With every incompleteness in our psyche/soul/being/brain/subconscious/etc we have to realize how this side to our nature becomes more thirsty for acknowledgement, the more we tend to ignore it. Not implying we feed our dark side, but rather find ways to cool down the wounds in our hearts, memories, and wholeness within ourselves without fear at looking at how estranged we truly are in comparison to our innocence as a child.

If we can find the areas where we lack contemplation, (areas of neglected development) the parts of ourselves where we neglect to see anything wrong, (however there's plenty wrong/denial) and we learn to feed the whole human, do the soul/past scar searching/healing with assurance from family we're OK & then find that assurance in ourselves then we have a chance to actualize the self, stand straight up inside our self for the totality of your being. (Not running from anything, willing to accept everything you ever were)

Once you understand, feel, and acknowledge the frivolity of expecting internal experience to always be outside of your control, and after you have aspect of how to control the levers inside your own head, future psychedelic voyages become much more welcome lacking the apprehension of experiencing completeness seeing how you have completeness completely under control. (regardless how a few frightened dust bunnies are running around inside of our heads repeating screaming "we're all going to die!" =)

I say, let her have the experience.

Her life is pulling her in a direction to experience things the way she needs to.

What I would do, in this situation, I think is allow her to have a new years eve time.

I did acid at 17 plenty of times...and sometimes I wasn't very responsible...youth..what more
can anyone say?

Is she has a very bad trip then I would talk to her and then when I felt she might be ready
I would ask her if should would be willing to try again with a totally different set and setting.
If she accepted, and was 18, then I would help her to have the experience these substances are
only capable off when one does them with the right people, at the right time, with the right
mind set. I probably wouldn't use acid, but shrooms. I find them more spiritual...to each his own.

Basically Im just saying let her have the experience (whether good or bad) that she is pulled towards it. It won't fuck her up for life especially if
you can help her work with them correctly in the future.

I would however, warn her up front about taking 2 hits with friends at a New Years eve party...but then
I'd allow her to make her own decision...

I guess the reason I feel this way is because LSD was the turning point in my life. I was experimenting with it a lot
in the 15-20 year old range...and NO I don't suggest a lot of 15 year olds experiment with it...but I did and it has
for sure set the course of my life to create the person I am today.

On one hand, I agree with blacklist on all points about respect for psychedelics as a learning curve type of thing, but there are questions you need to ask yourself in this situation, such as, “Does mental illness run in my cousin’s family?” It seems like you’re concerned that your cousin is experiencing abnormal amounts of fear, and it’s good to remember that mental illness can be exacerbated by psychedelics.
I remember being in my mid-teens and tripping at home by myself a couple of times, and while it wasn’t the most comfortable scenario I think it was a lot better than wandering about outside for 8 hours. Maybe you could convince her to just stay at home when she takes it, especially if she’s still planning on taking it with a 13 year old. Actually, the whole thing still screams BAD NEWS to me, as there is almost no way a 13 year old can be mentally prepared for an acid trip, and if by some miracle she can remain calm and make her way, there is no way that she would be able to help your cousin if needed.
Are you in town with your cousin currently? Maybe you could tell her to take it now while you’re around.
It is just LSD, so the worst that can happen if she takes it at home is police involvement and/or hospitalization. But out of doors they would be more susceptible to violent crimes, etc.
Forgive me if I come across as alarmist.

Yeah I agree.

I missed the post about the 13 year old. No way. This is a bad idea.

They did not grow up in the right society to do this and it has the possibility to end very badly IMHO.

In fact it could end with the 17 year old getting real jail time or other legal trouble.

Peace.

Bingo. I agree completely with the above statement. We understand the incredible experience provided by psychedelics, but the world at large considers them dangerous and illegal.
Nexalizer, what are your plans regarding this situation? I'm curious.

IMHO, it sounds like your cousin is a good lass, but with idiot friends.
such is the usual in these cases. if i was you, id try and get her to come and hang with you and your friends at new year. look after her and make sure she has a great trip.
as it honestly sounds to me that if she trips on 200ug with those fanny mates of hers, something will go down that will make her freak her sh*t bigtime.

i mean the girl got spooked at a little wind in the trees for chris'sakes!

theres not much i fear now, thanks to repeatedly ANNIHILATING my mind with psychedelics over the past few years.
used to be a bit spooked in dark rooms, and aliens used to creep me right out.
now after many trips with acid i know what true insanity feels like, and thanks to dmt i have experienced my destruction down to a subatomic level (imagine getting too close to a black hole).
theres not much i fear in this world/plane of existence anymore.

in fact the concept of some "big scary monster" jumping out the bushes at me just makes me giggle.
if anything, i would be IT's worst nightmare.... (i'd talk it to death) mwuahahahaa

i dont really know where im going with this now, so ill make this short.
sounds like a bad idea to let her munch 200ug of lsd and hang with those idiots, especially if all shes had is a half blotter, and a bit of a breeze makes her sh*t her pants.

but then again, she IS going to do what she wants.
best of luck to you.