The illusion of free speech

At times I see people on the forum telling me they want 'free speech'. I see arguments that without this free speech "Spontaneous creativity and inspiration" will be lost. however, what they try to say with this 'free speech' talk is that they want their form of 'free speech' on the forum but not a complete freedom of speech.

And how can we? Should we allow free speech about dosing unknowing people? Should we allow free speech about buying/selling? Should we allow free speech about personal attacks on our members? Should we allow free speech that is bashing spiritual posts in the most destructive way possible?

Of course not. Some rules are here to protect us all from law enforcement, others rules are here to make sure we can all come along and some rules are here to protect and improve the social status of DMT. It is impossible to satisfy all members to the full 100%. And with this knowledge in the back of my mind I try my very best to be as fair as possible to as many members as possible.


THE DMT-NEXUS PLATFORM

I chose to make a platform where we can share our experiences and where we try to evolve the knowledge we have about this molecule. One other thing that is very important to me is that we also are a place where people from outside the DMT-Nexus can come visit us, people who do not have much knowledge about entheogens. I want them to see that unlike all the prejudice that is out there, that we are a reasonable bunch of people who are actually a lot like them. The only difference between them and us is that we take entheogens and that we try to do that in the most responsible way possible, and that in turn requires critical thinking and reliable information.

For some that might not be important and they might reason that they do not come here to be a nice example for the outside world. However, it matters to me and not a little bit, no it matters a lot to me! Without this progressive platform I highly doubt that we will ever move forward the way we are doing now, combine this with the hope for a better acceptance of DMT in this world and I will work damn hard to reach that goal! I don't want to go jail for just taking DMT or any other entheogen, I want to explore the world of hyperspace without any fear for law enforcement and in total personal freedom.


DRAWING A LINE BETWEEN GROUPS

Because I know that certain visions about life bite each other I made a special section for one of them: the more spiritual inclined group. I made a special subforum where we can discuss all things spiritual and anything out of the ordinary without the need for that much needed critical thinking that we need so hard in the rest of the forum. If people also want to receive the more 'scientifically' or critical replies to their posts in that subforum they can state in their threads something like: 'scientific/critical replies are appreciated'.

If needed I can even make a special subsection that has several subfora for the more spiritual inclined group instead of the one "Through the Looking-Glass" subforum that we have now. Let me know how you feel about this by replying in this thread.

With this new approach I think that we will keep as much "Spontaneous creativity and inspiration" as possible.



This post shows a bit of my vision and how they influence the choices I make for the DMT-Nexus. If people come to me complaining about 'free speech' and 'censorship' then I can only come to the conclusion they do not fully understand how many different opinions we have here on the DMT-Nexus and how hard it is to come even close to making them all happy.


Kind regards,

The Traveler

Well said, people need to realize that everything you do is for the best of the site/forum.

You're a great person Trav thanks for putting so much care into this!

I think one subforum is fine.
People should start to accept that there is no need for rebellion here, that drama is not appreciated because it just distracts and that free speech never exists. There are always sanctions, even in very egalitarian communities. Some are drastic, but most of them are subtle. Perhaps it's just easy for me to say because i agree with a position of power for the first time in my life. Still, i would like to see people who want to be a part of the nexus to respect the foundations this site was founded on. The beautiful thing is, that this includes the possibility of change. Still, this forum got a special flavour you should like. The thing is, there are TONS of forums on the Internet with other cultures. Forums in which you can talk about conspiracy theories, about selling drugs, acting foolish with psychedelics etc. Everyone got a different worldview but why can't the nexus just be ONE of many flavours?

In my opinion, demanding "free speech" in this context is an insult.
Because this is nothing but saying "I don't like the culture here, i wanna change it to my liking and disregard what's already there"

Man, i talk like a republican...

...but then, i just don't want to lose something i like very much.

There is so much room for everyone on the Internet..

So please let the nexus be the nexus.

I'm pretty sure I understand what you want, and what your NEW POLICY is... but to make this abundantly clear, you did step back from the stance that ALL spiritual, mystical, metaphysical, paranormal or less-than-scientific posts MUST reside in the TTLG subform, didn't you?

(if that is ever what you intended)

From your recent posts and endlessness's, I was operating under the assumption that the new modus operandi was that your New Policy rules were general and applied to the whole spectrum of posts and posters, and that the TTLG subforum was simply a safe haven for people who didn't want to be subjected to criticism or analysis. Did you not say that we can consider discussing these things where they happen to come up (like in experience reports or in the Tavern or in Open Areas where new members can participate) so long as we are respectful and make it clear when we are expressing our opinions or subjective views on our experiences rather than 100% truths... and are willing to be challenged about what we write?

This latest announcement makes me wonder if I misunderstood. Are we back to the TTLG as only place to discuss the wealth of supernatural or non-material issues we all know and love to fence on?

If that is what you want, we will go with whatever you decide. I would simply suggest 1) that i thought the New Policy as stated was sufficient and balanced 2) TTLG might not be as encouraging a title for that subforum as what it used to be called.

Some stuff happily matches that title, but other stuff is not so much Wonderland-esque as it is simply unproven scientifically (or un-provable scientifically). As you are aware, talk of chakras, chi, consciousness based philosophical stances, religious/spiritual beliefs and the like are not exactly Mad Hatter's Tea Party stuff, but rather widely held conceptions that are simply not within the materialist purview. Many insurance companies will pay for your Chinese Medical treatments, so I don't think its basic tenets are as far out as say channeling. And such ancient systems of thought are certainly not "new age." (Which itself is a term that doesn't really jibe with the TTLG title.)

I don't post here to challenge or question your authority (as a rather odd recent post seemed to be lampooning).

(Nice response on that thread btw.)

Just to try and make this abundantly clear, because as humans we tend to see and read into things what we want to (or already) believe. It seems that many people on every spectrum of the so called divide feel that what seemed to be a clear and balanced approach from you was either confirming their bias or being more heavy handed than it seemed to me.

In the interest of clarity, from someone who loves to get lost in the Tulgey Wood.
HF

Hey Hyperspace Fool,

Let me answer all your questions so that everything is clear for all. You did ask some very important things!



You can still place ANY spiritual, mystical, metaphysical, paranormal or less-than-scientific posts in the rest of the forum. However, scientific questions should be expected in the rest of the forum, something that can actually be very interesting.




Completely true to all things that you stated there:

• TRUE: New Policy rules were general and applied to the whole spectrum of posts and posters
  
• TRUE: the TTLG subforum was simply a safe haven for people who didn't want to be subjected to criticism or analysis
  
• TRUE: you can consider discussing these things where they happen to come up (like in experience reports or in the Tavern or in Open Areas where new members can participate) so long as you are respectful and make it clear when you are expressing your opinions or subjective views on your experiences rather than 100% truths.. and are willing to be challenged about what you write
  

No, you can still discuss the wealth of supernatural or non-material issues we all know and love to fence on outside the TTLG subforum. Just as stated before: scientific questions should be expected in the rest of the forum, something that can actually be very interesting.




If you have any good ideas about different subfora and names then I'm more as willing to listen to them.




Amen!



Kind regards,

The Traveler

I think your doing a great job at trying to please everyone. I have an idea about how to address the problem, perhaps there could be an icon you can click or a few different icons when you make a post and each one has some kind of disclaimer. for example one box could read ' this post contains information that falls out of line with current scientific knowledge but critical and scientific replys are welcome. another box could read this post contains information that falls out of line with current scientific knowledge and critical replies are not welcome' if someone doesn't add the disclaimer to the post before they make it they can expect to be called out on it.

something like this might make members making these kinds of posts feel less segregated from the rest of us and they would then be able to post in each section of the forum if they want to post specifically in one section. I don't know how many of these disclaimers you would see around here but someone that just came in here and reads a new agey post but there is a disclaimer at the top saying that this falls out of line with the attitude of the nexus I think your reputation and attitude would stay fully intact and appreciated by people.

Perhaps the mods that are well versed in what has been proven or not with science can add this disclaimer if a member fails to do so.

Just a suggestion to think about. I think your doing awesome and thank you for all the hard work you do for everyone.

Thanks Trav,

You have nerves of steel. And we all owe you a debt of gratitude too great for words.

May the light of joy follow you wherever you go.

HF

I very much liked this forum because of the rules and the people,, that is what helped me decide to join.... because so many other forums seemed like too much unchecked crap... I think trav is doing a fine job and also my congrats to the other mods... i already had miss right harsh my gig..and turned me into something i did not like.. i started a post without much thought.. the mods stopped it.. and i was thankful better heads were working.. i like this forum.. and i hope it will remain the same way i found it... but thats just me.. respect and thanks Oden

I will add this idea to my ever increasing ToDO list. Thank you for the suggestion!


Kind regards,

The Traveler

What about an 'OffTopic' section too ??

So we can also protect the fellows who sometimes just get bored of talking about "drugs" (do not read pejoratively) and just wanna find some agreement about certain mundane or pop-culture topics among the comunity members and make some friends. In fact, this happens all the time in the Chat

If there is already a space like this in the forum.... never mind ! xD

...Is also important to preserve and respect the diversity.


Warm Regards ♪

^Hyperspace Tavern, my man.

I can peacefully abide by what The Traveler believes is best for maintaining some semblance of order and dignity, here at the Nexus. After all, it's like the old colloquialism states, "ownership has it's privileges". Since Trav has been so kind as to bend over backwards, to explain things more clearly, shows his genuine sensitivity and open-mindedness towards our more esoterically-inclined members. For this I thank him for his magnanimity.

I do agree with Hyperspace Fool, that the name for the spiritual/esoteric subforum may be ineffective to steer the interest of like-minded individuals, who are not familiar with this forum or it's categories. Through the Looking Glass is pretty cool... but from my admittedly curmudgeonly vantage point, this draws specific reference to Lewis Carroll's penchant for opium, and possibly hashish and/or other plants (chemical molecules), perhaps even Amanita Muscaria?

Arguably, these are not exactly true psychedelics, but ARE decidedly, deliriants and dissociatives. OK, hashish and marijuana certainly CAN be a psychedelically profound experience, especially orally with harmalas in the mix, but you know what I mean? Amanitas can be trippy, shimmering and dreamy (even euphoric)... but not the intense shift in perception, which expands ones awareness into a mind-blowing, soul shattering, full breakthrough into Hyperspace. Is this a reasonable complaint?

(For me, only tryptamines and phenethylamines do that. Nitrous Oxide and Salvia Divinorum can facilitates OBE, but I begin to digress...)

And sure, I often use the phrase, "From this side of the looking glass". I use it to define the separation from "normal" consciousness, to the altered state which certain chemical molecules ignite within the mind of the observer. it is a general reference to being influenced or not influenced by an entheogen. I wouldn't use it to describe a transcendental experience or a rebirth (but that's just me).

TTLG does imply areas of thought which are not rooted in pragmatic scientific fact (purely rational theories and hypotheses). It does not, however, convey meaningful reference to that most Holy, mysterious and all-pervasive universal quintessence, The Spirit. :idea:

"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet."

Sure, it's just a label, after all... but I wonder if Through the Looking Glass is the appropriate name of this newly re-formatted subforum? I would not be so: "fallacious", "ridiculous" or given towards "mumbo jumbo" (or any one of several frequently used negative adjectives circulating lately in the Nexus), as to project my preferences or imply any dogmatic ideologies. But would it be permissible to make a poll with a variety of suggestions for the tittle of this subforum?

No, nothing so disrespectful as was done earlier today (while harmlessly tongue-in-cheek, it did little to heal or bridge our differences in viewpoints)... rather, one designed to reflect how other members feel about the label, TTLG. Nexians can either vote for one of the categories, TTLG included OR make suggestions as replies bellow the poll.

You see, most of us do not feel traditionally "religious". While we encounter a force which both shatters our ego definition, concept of existence and expands our very consciousness, we also taste something of The Divine. This changes a person forevermore. and while some of us do flock to ashrams, churches and mosques... some of us find "the spiritual" intimately embraced with the natural. Our temple is in the here & now.

I realize full well that this is Trav's baby and he calls the shots. Anyone who feels otherwise can go start their own website, right? But let's face it, there is something special about this fellowship and our diversity in vision is one of the things that make sit so intriguing and unique.

More than anything else, I am NOT attempting to cause further division or controversy. It's just that TTLG has far too many "fairy-tale" connotations and those of us who who practice our daily spiritual approach to living, sober OR high, feel that there is something of great significance to naming this subforum.

Surely, "You can't please all of the people, all of the time." Still, if nothing else, we might learn something pertinent about how strongly some molecules effect our direct encounters with The Spiritual.

As an afterthought, I'd like to thank the Traveler for being so concerned with this aspect of the psychedelic experience. And so, I sincerely salute his authority (which may even elicit further laughter on The Traveler's part).

BTW, I await administrative approval (or conversely, denial) about the whole TTLG poll thingy. Thanx for listening.

Much love, RS

Hey Rising Spirit,

Thank you for your kind post.



Making a poll for this will be no problem at all and I even think it is necessary do to so.

It might even be wise to to make more as one subforum. For example, I can imagine that there is the need for a subforum for the spiritual/philosophical discussions and one for things like crystals/chakras/Telekinesis/etc, I see those two as two very distinctive type of topics. What do you think?


Kind regards,

The Traveler

I agree with this ^^^

Seems that more than one subforum would be in order. We already have Philosophy and TTLG (whatever it winds up being called).

Perhaps one for Religion & Spirituality.

In this way the stuff that people might find objectionable to be labeled TTLG can be given the respect of the lengthy traditions they have.

My suggestions for potential other subfora:

X-Files / Fringe (For psi, sci-fi, psi-fi and the like)
Esoteric, Mysticism & The Occult
Religion & Spirtuality (For strongly held beliefs or knowings about these topics without Atheist ridicule... unless asked for)

In a system where we had more than one out-there forum and people's religious or spiritual beliefs didn't have to fit in there... the TTLG label is actually endearing. I wouldn't mind keeping it. It was only when it had to serve for all such non-scientifically provable speculations that it seemed a bit derogatory. There is a difference between people who feel that they encounter angels, deeply revere Tantric Yoga practices, or believe in some kind of G"d... and people who want to share and speculate on the more WTF conceptions, mysterious mind bogglers and what not.

I would rather not call chi and chakras TTLG, because they are not such out there beliefs and are in common parlance. However, if someone wants to hear my story of the sudden creation of a crop circle... that is pretty much TTLG all the way.

Blessings.

That sounds great! There is need for two alternative subforums, given that spiritual topics and the myriad of psychic experiences human beings have reported, would essentially be lumping together, apples and oranges. Thank you Sir, for having the insight that there should ideally be two areas of discussion. This is more than enough room for members of this association to have the freedom to express their ideas about unscientific, subjective beliefs.

I would also respectfully add, that moderator participation is necessary and should be welcome. After all, we can't just type ANYTHING we want, off the top of our heads... as it does and would continue to effect the whole of the Nexus and it's primary aims. We are guests here and yeah, I sometimes have to remind myself of that fact.

This needn't be seen as some kind of restraint of self-expression or "The illusion of freedom of speech" being imposed on the forum body. I suggest that by seeing the bigger picture, we would all benefit from the small compromises we each must make, for the greater whole.



I agree with both of you! I always did feel we ought to have the Philosophy subforum separate and unencumbered by discussions of strictly spiritual/mystical ideas, even though the two can and DO overlap into each others turf. Yes, there exists a need for a separate Spirituality or Mysticism subforum. Shall we put The Spiritual back into our Explorations of the Spirit Molecule?

IMO, the Esoteric subforum worked pretty well, as it was. A really good place to discuss: shamanism, astral travel, meditation, pranayama, lucid dreaming, Qigong, human auras, Tarot cards, I-Qing, pranayama, telepathy, UFO's and an innumerable volume of non-ordinary phenomena, which so fascinate the 21st century psychonaut. It can be called TTLG or Esoteric... or whatever.



How about two simple polls to decide exactly WHAT their specific titles should be? Or is a poll actually needed here? If The Traveler is kind enough to establish a spirituality subforum, as companion to the decidedly metaphysical realm of experience... he can call them whatever he wants to. Right? :idea:

Say a fellow Nexian is away from the site for a few weeks or even months. Maybe it would be wisest to keep the format as similar as it always has been? Meaning, the path of least resistance is to split the Philosophy and Spirituality subforum into two separate entities and then, decide if the fourth category should remain Through The Looking Glass or be resurrected as the old Esoteric subforum. As Hyperspace Fool astutely pointed out, TTLG is endearing. Frankly, it's also grown on me.

As joedirt has insightfully expressed, shouldn't there be an appropriate region of discussion for both members and visitors, to sample some of the spiritual ideas our fellowship exchanges? For example, if an open-minded Buddhist individual living in Nepal or Japan, has heard about DMT and is drawn to Trav's site. It is not reasoanable that a Spirituality subforum would be the logical spot to check out, were one a contemplative person?

And I sincerely feel this should NOT EXACTLY be the same as a strictly religious discussion room. Not an organized, structure of dogmatic tenants (God forbid)... rather, an area where we can respectfully discuss topics like: kundalini, Samadhi, The Godhead, The Void, No Mind, Satori, The Tao and other pertinent aspects of Oneness.

So, while religious topics are essential, the word Religion itself, may be a problem. The "R-word" might turn some very spiritually-minded people off? You guys know what I mean? So many hypocritical acts and cruelties have gone under the banner of organized religion, that perhaps it should be implied... but not necessarily named outright?

One of my favorite human teachers, Swami Satchidanada, used to have an expression about the human concept of religion. "As many minds, as many Gods, as many religions". We each create our own belief system and gravitate towards what we feel an affinity for. Or perhaps a blend of many beliefs, orbiting around a central universal core belief? The days of accepting whichever religion to worship within, strictly as a cultural condition, are over for many of us living in the 21st century.

I also found this to be a good idea.

What is it with these people now a days, free speech idk how much more the nexus can provide.

Maybe a conspiracy sub-forum also?


Have an entire wing for bothersome "problem" topics...even name it "The Looney Bin".

Hey just a thought.

Everytime I check back in here, someones got their knickers all in an uproar about something. I mean, if the added spiritual forum helps eleviate everyones recent spritual crises, maybe a tinfoil hat forum would likewise make people happy. OOh! and even a "swimmers only" subforum subtitled "for the prudent and cautious, a place where FOAFs can SWIM in peace" or something.

Or am I being silly again?

I'm afraid that will not happen. Spirituality is something that is closely related to entheogens. Conspiracy Theories on the other hand are not and have a bad way of dividing our community. If you want to discuss a CT then Google is your friend.


Kind regards,

The Traveler

No, they do not overlap. The seem to overlap, because many people do not really know what Philosophy actually is. It's a strongly rational school of thought, following a certain dialectic. It's not just asking "what it all means".

Sure, in the tradition of analytic philosophy, the approach resembles a rather scientific one. That does not mean the spirit is not discussed in various philosophical themes. It could be said that the spirit was more commonly intertwined with individual philosophies of antiquity and throughout modern philosophy, with an apparent decline into contemporary.