Accacia bark is a lot more fatty than MHRB and doing an acid step first it is easy to do defats. Accacia bark can require 3-4 defats. You could probably get rid of this through freeze precip but it would probably require 3 or more recrytalizations and it is easier to do a defat than a recrystalization. Having said this I have never done a quicktek so you never know. It is a long drive (5-6hrs) to get raw material so I tend to stick to the devil I know. If any one has had good results with quicktek on obtusifolia bark I would love to hear about it.

Mardybum - you're smart to stick with the A/B, you'll definitely need a defat step. Recrystalization wouldn't work with such a large ratio of fat to alkaloid. I'd go with a long boil using lots of water. My friend is doing a batch of MHRB this way - five changes of water 24 hour boil each - to see if he can yield better than a quicktek. I'm pretty sure he will. I wonder what would happen if you did a quicktek, and then without evaping or preciping added the solvent to acidified water and agitated, defatted that, basified and extracted? That's a riff on Mars' psychotria method - only substituting a quicktek for his A/B at the start and not bothering to remove the solvent in favor of salting out the alkaloid. I keep thinking that there must be some reason he did it that way rather than put the defat between the A and the B. Maybe I'll have to browbeat the Antarctican into giving that one a try with MHRB. Not that it needs a defat, but he could see if the alks come out that way. I can see why you're sticking with tried and true though. Sucks to lose a kilo. Silly - did you really mean three parts vinegar to one part water or is it the other way round?

Hey Noman, sorry mate, I meant 3 parts water 1 part vinegar Thanks for spotting that. I imagine you would probably pull out a fair bit of unwanted crap with that much acid.

the jar of which i have been re-freezing is now ready (3 days) imo to get the crystals outm but they havent stufck to the jar theyre just floating around inside? to avoid them melting again should i just filter out IN the freezer? any ideas? SWIM went ahead and filtered out in the freezer, , hes going to let it sit for a while to make sure all the solvent is filtered through so no chance of redissolving. he evapped the majority of the solvent which went through the filter mixed in with som parsely then scraped everything up = goo mixed with parsley. he loaded into his glass pipe with a layer of normal parsley underneath and a layer on top and smoked lightly torching the top layer. the parsley was a bit wet from water so it crackled alot - no idea if dmt crackles when smoked but anyway. he took 4 hits holding in as long as possible but nothing happened. when hed finished there was made patterns on his pipe, apparently dmt had recrystallliosed on it, so he heated up the pipe and the crystals crckled and vaporized to smoke, obviously not enough to toke, but enough to see it must of been dmt in there. was there no enough dmt in his solvent to have any effect> there was enough to recrystallise onto the sides of his pipe, why didnt he feel any effects? since it was his first time IDing obtus he is worried he might of picked the wrong bark. i spose all will be told when het tries to smoke crystals. are there any other alkaloids which have all the same characterisics as dmt except with no effect? it was definately an acacia tree, hopefully its not NMT or something.

hello i was just thinkin that since ammonia is polar and water is polar too, can the ammonia wash be substituted with water and have the same cleaning effect? or is there a reaction btw naoh and nh3 i dont know about? why use cold ammonia? if ammonia doesnt dissolve dmt wouldn't warm be better to remove the naoh? i'm just wondering

well ammonia does dissolve dmt, just very little amount. obviously the hotter ammonia is the more dmt it will dissolve. same with water, water just dissolved that little bit more dmt than ammonia. and yeah, you can used distilled water (cooled) to clean, but expect a little loss. this kid i know is pretty much way too keen to wait around for his coffee grinder. hehe. so in the name of science and experimentation hes going to try the quicktek on obtus bark. he grabbed (a.obtus) 150g of powder and 100g 1cmby1cm peices (dont worry hes still got 900-1000g left over) and chucked it all in 3.5 L of water then added 20 tablespoons of NAoH, thinking of adding an extra 5 tblsp?? to be sure its 13-14pH, + his tap water is around 6-7pH, lower than most.. plus more lye = higher yeild anyways - apparently. hes gunna let it sit in the water till the weekend, do a few pulls with shellite, evap it down a bit then chuck it in the freezer and pray to the gods something comes out. if it does, i'll bet hell have a fair bit of cleaning to do! question - if i chucked say 200mL of solvent on tonight. and let the mixture + solvent sit till the weekend, saking occasionly, would that be a good idea so the solvent would suck out everything it could?

which one is recomended for the first extraction in the qt's tek

[quote:fc170d819d="mentalextentions"]which one is recomended for the first extraction in the qt's tek[/quote:fc170d819d] sorry i mean which is better between cotton ball filter and the coffee filter

You don't need to filter that fine - just fine enough so you don't clog up your separation equipment. BTW - QT's tek doesn't work.

Hey everyone. I know I ask alot of questions. But SWIM really wants to make sure everything works for him. He just finished his THIRD unseccesful extraction, and is quite dissapointed. He puts it down to there being not enough bark/dmt. (1. he didn't powder the bark, 2. he only used 200g). He just finished powdering his 1kg of bark. He froze it, ran it through his coffee grinder, froze it again and ran it through again. He was going to do it a third time. But it was insanely small and fine powder. So small when grinding it all a second time, half the bark would turn to dust and when he opened the coffee grinder he'd get a load of dust in his face sending him into a sneezing and coughing fit. He had to let the grinder sit for 10 mins between every round! So he's definately not doing it a third time. It's powder enough. He weighed it out and he's got a little over a KG. Anyway, he didn't get enough to smoke, but he got pure white crystals from the quicktek, (freeze precipping) so there doesn't seem to be a huge problem with the fats and oils in acacia. But, he recently learnt, there is this thing called tannis in acacia, which makes smoke dirty and harsh, so he has to do a defat at some point to pull the majority of tannis out. Tannis comes out of the bark almost as soon as it's combined with water. So basically he's going to leave the bark in the mixture the whole time, thus still letting the lye pull out dmt from the bark. He's heard boiling can destroy DMT, so is going to heat the bark as little as possible, and leave the DMT pulling up to the lye, but still being able to pull that tannis out. Which has led him to this procedure: -Let bark sit in three litres of water at pH 5 water for a week. -Boil three consecutive times, with 1.5 litres of water each time (this includes the bark soaked water, he will be adding 500mL each boil), in pH 3 water for two hours each time. (By boil, I mean let the water warm until tiny, tiny little bubble start popping up, then leave it at that) -Combine all the water from boils + bark into a big pot, and simmer/boil (you know what i mean) down to three litres. -Put the boiled down mixture (including the bark), into his empty 4L shellite bottle. -Let cool overnight. -Do four defats, each with 250mL of warm shellite, warming the mixture with warm tap water each time the shellite is sucked off. Leave the last 250mL of shellite in the mixture overnight. Heat up mixture in morning and suck off. -Add 3-4 tablespoons of NAoH directly to the mixture each hour, making sure the mixture does not heat up, and is cool each time he adds lye, until a pH of 13-14 is reached. (DMT is destroyed at 40 degrees in its freebase form!) -Making sure mixture has cooled, add 500mL of warm shellite, warm the mixture, suck off the shellite and put into a baking pan. Do another pull with 500mL combining the solvents to evaporate down to 100mL. -Once solvent has evaporated down to 100mL, put into vegemite jar, place in freezer. -Leave for 3 days untouched. Hope crystals form! -After three days LOADS of crystals will have formed wink.gif, pour off solvent, lay vegemite jar out to dry, scrape of crystals and SMOKE! He's going to be doing this with an electronic pH meter, to make sure everything goes well. Your critisicm/suggestions/comments are HIGHLY encouraged. He wants to make sure this time it goes perfect. He's tired of screwing up, and just wants a lesson from the great Dimitri.

Mardy, [quote:c0ab62dd35]Anyway, he didn't get enough to smoke, but he got pure white crystals from the quicktek, (freeze precipping)[/quote:c0ab62dd35] From 1 kg there is not enough to smoke ???!! Can you estimate the weight or post a pic ? Mainly curious to see white crystal from acacia... [quote:c0ab62dd35]so there doesn't seem to be a huge problem with the fats and oils in acacia. [/quote:c0ab62dd35] So defats are useless ? [quote:c0ab62dd35]But, he recently learnt, there is this thing called tannis in acacia[/quote:c0ab62dd35] Tannins are soluble in water, I doubt they would be soluble in naphta. Why to bother about tannins then ?

- No, he's about to do 1kg. Last time he did 200g (which wasn't powdered) and didn't get enough to smoke. - It would seem defats are useless. Unless pulling out chloryphyll or something that must come out. Maybe it's the shellite, maybe it's the bark, but my solvent came out clear, and when evapped down only went a very light yellow. - If their not soluble in solvent there's not much point trying to defat them out then. I was talking to my friend, who knows all the guys who developed the teks for acacia bark, and I got him to ask them why they didn't do straight base teks, as the crystals come out clean anyway. They said because you have to pull the tannis out. They didn't say anything about too many fats or oils, just tannis. They also said if you wanted to do a straight base you could use (some base chemical) and do the whole straight base extraction without water. I suppose i'll just have to find out whether tannis is soluble in solvent or not.

Understand almost nothing about the following but this may help you to get an opinion : [quote:171c16d55e]n-hexane and dimethyl ether solubilizated only non-polar organic compounds presented in acacia bark, while the ethanol extracted the tannin compounds[/quote:171c16d55e] http://www.scielo.br/sci...p;amp;script=sci_arttext

he is going to do the straight base tek again. because everyone says it gives much higher yeilds. but when he does his pulls, he'll extract the dmt in the shellite pulls into acidified water. essentially doing a defat. then basify that water and extract with shellite again to freeze precip. he got this info on the nook. apparently this sort of defat is much more effecient at removing fats and oils + no heating so no spice destroyed + still gets the higher yeild from straight base. geez i hope it works.

I hope so too. My friend has been wondering about it since he did cactus that way with no defat. Am I right that your friend previously extracted a dose from 200g of this material? Could you post a link to that tek?

noman the first a.obtus extraction i did 300g (not powdered) and used normal a/b and got a little less than a dose. i fucked up when trying to filter crystals out, then when i tried to freeze solvent again nothing happened. second time i used 200g and followed your tek/quicktek. sort of just read ovetr them both then did it off memory. now for my third time im useing 1kg very much powdered and going to follow that method i posted earlier (straight base, extract solvent, defat solvent with acid water, basify acid water, extract basified water with solvent again.)

Are you sure its obtusifolia bark? You definately should have got enough to smoke off 200g of bark. Maybe around 1/2 a gram.

No, unfortunately he's not sure it's obtusifolia bark. Some FOAFs who do ALOT of extractions and do not powder their bark were not surprised that I did not get a dose on 200g. I put it down to 1) not powdering and 2) only freezing my solvent 24 hours. It's Acacia bark I know that. Plus there was DMT on the sides. Just not enough. It's definately not A. Maidenii, and certainly not A. Longifolia. What other similar Acacia could it possibly be. I didn't think there where any other lookalikes. Anyways, the 1kg extraction will tell.

alright, 24 hours ago pulled out the first layer of mineral spirits from my basified mixture and evaporated them to decent results. Around this same time put in more naphtha than before and let that sit for a few hours. then looked at perfect layers and agitated it. after 12 hours the layers were no longer as distinct, and after adding more naphtha and 400mL of water with around 40gs of NAOH and letting that sit for a while (adding in 100mL water intervals with 10g of NAOH each). can't get good layers (there is a small clear layer with no bubbles, but the rest of the mineral spirits are in the basified mixture. tried tapping on the jar and whatnot, but am not sure what is wrong...last night the pH was fine as guessing by the first pull and how well the layers were separating, but now with a higher pH and more naphtha there is less on the top layer.

ive always found adding more lye makes the layers separate easier. strange it worked on the first pull. maybe try adding some salt? but id really reccomend adding lye until it does separate, thats what ive always done. http://www.dmt-nexus.me/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=947 i have some questions with the base tek aswell. all the amounts of water/lye vary alot between teks. im doing a 1kg extraction and wonder how much water/lye i'll need. vortex says 3L+300grams. lazymans says about 450 grams+5L of water, but noman says about 1000grams+15L. any ideas on which is best to follow? im leaning towards nomans, because he seems a pretty knowledgable extractor. but shit thatll take alot of naoh and one BIG container. help please!