No need for confrontation. And if you can't express your belief that such expressions are not mature logical, common sense and intelligent... in a mature, logical, or common sense way (insults and assumptions don't qualify)...

I guess you might want to take your own advice to heart.

I mean that in a constructive way brother.

Logic is not only what you think it is, but rather a very detailed set of paradigms by which to analyze experiences. Not just the ones you find common sense, mind you, but all experiences. Remember that logic was invented millenia before the scientific method. Materialists didn't invent logic... on the contrary, materialism is in direct opposition to the philosophy of rationalism. (not making this up)

I suggest we cool our jets and get back on topic here.

No viewpoint (however common sense it may seem to you) is held to a higher standard than any other. People like tele & myself have contribute as much to this wonderful place as anyone else.

Truth be told, many of my most recent contributions to the field of knowledge here are completely empirical, science-based advances. (Proof that TSP works as a base, proof that liquid parrafin (mineral lamp oil) works as an NPS, and a fool proof method to eliminate burn while insufflating DMT... just to scratch the surface.)

I say this not to toot my own horn, but rather to challenge your unfounded belief that you and other naysayers like yourself are the "voice of reason" here, or do all the heavy lifting science-wise around here. This is not borne out by the actual public record.

If you don't like talk of spirit possession or entities being real... no one forces you to read such posts... let alone reply to them.

Peace.

Oh, I don't do any of the heavy lifting, science-wise. I know nothing of science and if I were the hardcore rationalist you think I am, I probably wouldn't have been drawn to DMT in the first place. I just think that personal accountability is always a good idea, and that externalizing/reducing the experience as you have is a means of avoiding your own issues.

I use psychedelics to explore my own mind. I use them as a gateway to a better understanding of my absolute highest potential, the limits of my creativity and to briefly experience divinity. If I reduce it to "hanging out with beings", whether they be light or dark, I miss the point entirely. It's me in there - AT ALL TIMES - both when it's beautiful and when it gets dicey. When it does, there are lessons to be learned. Why have I reacted in this way? Why have I been unable to let go of preconceptions in the moment? Why do I need to understand or decode my experience linguistically? And in the absence of understanding, why am I then occasionally stricken with fear? If I attribute this all to external forces, I cut myself off from these lessons. They're just hyperspace boogeymen torturing me, and I choose not to play the victim.

I think your point of view does a disservice to the nature of the experience. You're welcome to it, and to express it, as I am to reply.

I think the only disservice to the psychedelic experience comes when it is boxed into earthly perceptions. Inside forces vs outside forces.....it doesn't matter. All that matters is taking the experience as it comes, leave it where it lay, and let the changes take place naturally within your own paradigm.

HOLD ON!!!
just... waaay toooo logical.
you need to leave here with that completely sensical standpoint.
come back when you are well versed in accepting the ludicrous

Well, it is obvious we all share different beliefs of what we view as good/light/angelic, and evil/dark/demonic and whether or not they are real or not or where they exist if they do in fact exist at all.




Those are some good points. And yet, they raise even more questions to ponder. What is a psychedelic experience? With that what is reality? Different beliefs do change experiences as well, to each his own. Psychedelics sure seem to be a very useful tool to cause one to ask questions, which is important, to keep asking and not accepting one answer over another, that's what the 99% of the other sheeple are doing. I've learned more about myself and reality solely from drug experiences. And have come to more unanswerable questions because of that as well. And that is where the beauty lies, constant desire for growth, nothing in nature just stops. And while in hyperspace one may seem insane, that is relative, (Einstein always comes to mind). If you were a completely free spirit you would see humans as insane, living in a society as ours, willing slaves to another of equal power, going to work, coming home, catching the news and sports, and repeating it. That's INSANE, relatively speaking. I've really offered my view of evil not being external to help overcome fear, not to see anyone getting hurt by throwing caution to the wind. If you think you can fly, take off from the ground, not a 4th story window. Someone most of us probably know well, but for those who don't I want to finish this post with this:

The world is like a ride at an amusement park. And when you choose to go on it, you think that it's real because that's how powerful our minds are. And the ride goes up and down and round and round. It has thrills and chills, and it's very brightly coloured, and it's very loud and it's fun, for a while. Some people have been on the ride for a long time, and they begin to question - is this real, or is this just a ride? And other people have remembered, and they come back to us. They say 'Hey! Don't worry, don't be afraid, ever, because, this is just a ride.' And we...kill those people. Ha ha ha. 'Shut him up! We have a lot invested in this ride. SHUT HIM UP! Look at my furrows of worry. Look at my big bank account and family. This just has to be real.' It's just a ride. But we always kill those good guys who try and tell us that, you ever notice that? And let the demons run amok. But it doesn't matter because: it's just a ride. And we can change it anytime we want. It's only a choice. No effort, no work, no job, no savings, and money. A choice, right now, between fear and love. The eyes of fear want you to put bigger locks on your doors, buy guns, close yourselves off. The eyes of love, instead, see all of us as one. Here's what you can do to change the world, right now, to a better ride. Take all that money that we spend on weapons and defence each year, and instead spend it feeding, clothing and educating the poor of the world, which it would many times over, not one human being excluded, and we could explore space, together, both inner and outer, for ever, in peace.
Bill Hicks

I don´t think discussing entity´s, whether good or evil, is in itself a disservice to the DMT-nexus community.

But when it starts to sound a bit like:'BEWARE, BEWARE' or 'well, i happen to KNOW a lot about these entities and let me tell you this' it all becomes somewhat out of place.

Let's take your analogy and move it to something else I happen to know a thing or two about... tropical rainforests.

"I don't think discussing jungles, whether the safe or unsafe parts, is in itself a disservice to the travelling community.

But when it starts to sound a bit like: 'BEWARE, BEWARE' or 'well, i happen to KNOW a lot about these jungles and let me tell you this' it all becomes somewhat out of place."

Maybe you don't see how ridiculous that is.

If I take some longtime city dwellers with me into the Amazon, the Lancandon, the Congo or some other such place... I would be seriously remiss not to warn them about the very real dangers that they might not be aware of... might not even believe in.

In these jungles, there are insects that lay eggs in your skin. Parasites that can enter your brain through your ears and your nose and eat your brain down to the size of a walnut. There are man-eating fish. Anaconda the length of a large school bus that can swallow water buffalo whole. There are jaguar, poisonous snakes, tarantulas, scorpions, and any number of things that could make you wish you never left home. There are tropical diseases that we don't even have any name for yet. As well as millions of bugs that just love to drink your blood like wine. That is to say nothing about the truly dangerous human animals that one might encounter.

If my buddy from Orange County tells me he doesn't believe in the fer-de-lance, and certainly doesn't believe that he will die in 4 minutes if bitten by one... his opinion on the matter is less than worthless. I will not desist in telling him NOT to lay his sleeping bag on the floor of the jungle... I will instead hang a hammock for him, and set up a secure mosquito net for him. If he refuses to sleep in the hammock, I will pick him up and carry him there.

This is done out of love.

The last person I let sleep on the floor of the jungle (He was drunk and belligerent, and began punching me when I picked him up off the floor and carried him to the hammock I made for him.) was bitten by a vampire bat. No lie. I am dead serious. He was fed upon by a nest of vampiric flying mammals. I am fairly sure he didn't imagine such a scenario to be a possibility when he was punching me.

Likewise, I feel it is my duty to warn people about the real dangers of Hyperspace travel... and the horrific experiences which many are already having (as evidenced by the trip reports). There is no reason to ever have a horrific experience while spicing it up. There is no reason to ever be filled with paralyzing fear. You can enter this realm and have nothing but heavenly joy and bliss... but you can't act like an idiot.

Unless, like my friend ____________ you want to end up having nearly half of your blood drained out of one of your veins, to pool on the ground and be lapped at by a nest of bloodsuckers for half the night...

This is not sensationalism. This is not a disservice to any loosely perceived community. This is not a threat to your personal ego. If you think me a madman, and you feel that you are totally knowledgeable about entities (or the lack thereof)... ignore me. Don't read or respond to my posts. There are plenty of threads around here that don't have wild eyed fear mongering on them. Heheheeh. (Feel free to edit my entries to the Hyperspace Lexicon on entities while you are at it... just erase the whole section if it strikes your fancy.)

Note: I am not being sarcastic, or snide. I say everything I do out of a deep reservoir of love I have for everyone here. Please read every word I write with the firm knowledge that I have a wide warm grin on my face and compassion in my eyes. There is no anger here, and I don't begrudge my skeptic friends their right to be skeptical. But I will not refrain from warning you all about what I know to be true.

May G*d, the Omniversal Mind, and the Great Spirit of Life bless you and keep you all. (whatever you conceive those terms to mean)

Aho Mikakuye Oyasin

HF

Not trying to butt-kiss here, but I just wanted to give Hyperspace Fool the props he deserves for eloquently and maturely sticking to his guns. I can tell he actually does have the experience he claims, and the love and concern for his fellow Nexians. I have learned a lot from you in this thread and I want to say thank you.

Art, with all due respect, I honestly think you mean well, but your attitude doesn't seem in line with that of a moderator of a site where attitude is held in such high esteem.

Take it up with the head office.

+1 here on both matters. And if to follow the attitude guidelines made by the Traveler:




Basically the same point of view can be expressed without being rude towards anyone, just out of respect towards fellow nexians.

Did you just implicitly declare yourself an authority on all hyperpacial issues?

Perhaps I missed it, but where did HF declare himself an authority on all hyperspacial issues?

What I read sounded like real practical advice. Who in their right minds goes wandering into a foreign territory just thinking it's all honky dory and nothing to ever worry about? No one does a thing like that, it's silly. You prepare for a journey, and one of the ways you prepare for a journey is by understanding all the lifeforms you might encounter while on your journey. His jungle analogy is a perfect example in my opinion (and as I've often joked, 'hyperspace... it's a jungle out there.' )

Comparing things of wich everybody KNOWS they actually exist with things that could be very well be fictional, as an argument to defend a'BEWARE, BEWARE' or 'well, i happen to KNOW a lot about these entities and let me tell you this' tone, looks a lot like claiming you actually DO know a lot about hyperspace.

While in fact no-one here knows shit about whether entity´s are real, etc.

Hyperspace fool implicitly and explicitly claims his advices, with all his experience (which keeps being mentioned), are what can save the "noobs" from all the danger, while us all 'nay-sayers' (his own words) are actually posing a danger to these people. This is absurd because we've been in this forum (and real life) for many years helping people from all sorts of different angles, except we dont agree that hyperspace monsters exist as an independent reality in the way hyperspace fool does. We just have a different perspective.

All this analogy of jungle dangers and how he knows how to deal with them, and then contrasts this with "acting like an idiot" does not fit the case here. Nobody here is proposing acting like an idiot, and nobody ever thought that you can go nonchalantly entering hyperspace and thinkign there are no potential dangers. Isnt this clear from the get-go, to all those who join this community? Did you read the health and safety section?

Its just the interpretation of what are these dangers that is different, so please dont keep making it seem like youre the good guy and we're all bad and endangering others for not following your way of advising.

My dear friend endlessness...

Since you seem to think that you have been able to help people to deal with the dangers you don't believe are real... point me to more than one thread where you offered someone who had the subjective experience of being accosted by dark entities any PRACTICAL advice that didn't consist of telling them to suck it up.

I am serious.

Show me where you were able to actually help someone NOT have such experiences. Simply telling them to go through it and attempt to recognize these dark entities as manifestations of their mind is not sufficient... and hasn't actually worked in a majority of cases.

What I have seen is people coming here quaking in their boots, and the advice being given them amounting to insinuating that they are just tripping and it will get easier. I have seen the same posters come back to report that they had even worse experiences and will now be giving up spice.

Sure, there are a number who got over their experiences without any real help. And, it is possible to visit Hyperspace regularly and never really encounter the beings that we are discussing. Most of the faces and apparent creatures seen while tripping are merely creative designs that your mind (or the intelligence of hyperspace) creates for your amusement.

However, when someone meets a truly independently conscious being and that being accosts them... your attitude is akin to that of people who would tell a rape victim that she just had a bad dream because no one else actually saw the man who raped her.

More often than not, when posters here actually were told something useful, it amounted to something fairly simple and along the lines of "Don't go over and engage those dark looking malevolent entities next time."

As obvious as this advice seems, it is effective.

I would tell a jungle tourist something similar. Don't go prodding those howler monkeys with sticks. They are not hallucinations, they are real, they are stronger than you, and they have 3 inch fangs.

Since you and others here are saying you don't know if these entities are real or can harm you... then how are you so sure that I am wrong?

What is the harm in telling people to avoid entities that radiate malice? What is the harm in advising people to associate with light beings?

I have seen people be harmed... Many times.

On the off chance that your gut level feeling that these things don't exist might be wrong, aren't you being somewhat arbitrary in insisting that other people who aren't addressing you shouldn't even bring up the topic simply because it makes you uncomfortable?

Are you asking me not to give my opinion on this real health issue just because you have no knowledge of it?

(note: It is a real health issue even if it is not caused by independent demonic beings. Mental health can be safeguarded here by letting people know that engaging the more ferocious entities can lead to a scarring and fearful experience.)

Hear Hear Hyperspace Fool! I would definitely have to agree. It seems to me that this debate has somewhat devolved into whether or not HF knows what he is talking about (which i really have no concern with), and also whether or not the entities exist or if they are merely phantasms. It is from the debate of the validity of their existence that the other debate has sprung up of whether or not to engage or to stray away from the entities as real or just treat them as figments of the imagination which i think is inconsequential to the debate. I think these entities whether they are real or not should be treated as real because whether or not they are, people continue to see them and are affected by how these entities/phantasms treat them. For example you wouldn't tell a Schizophrenic that the voices and people in their head aren't real and that they need not worry because that is the end of the story. One obviously must go into these things with great discernment but granted the raw power of the DMT experience I don't think anyone should go into it what they saw, whether real or not is not going to affect them deeply in some way

Getting all hung up on dark entities and harm only further propagates the meme of the dark entity self generated by the fearful humanoid.

Let go of human emotions and concepts and ride the hyperspace. Harm is a part of life. It is the prelude to death. Get over it.

Being scared of hyperspace has nothing to do with dark entities and light beings. The fact is, it's simply one of the most intense experiences a human can induce to themselves, and quite frankly many people I don't think have the awareness strong enough to deal with it. They still had the guts to peer through the veil, though. It's a natural human desire to want to experience that. Sometimes all someone needs is that one time. Sometimes people don't need to have repeated lovegasms with lightbeings and other beliefs and attachments to a completely phenomenological experience that drives on generating questions and consciousness, not mystical definitions IMO.

If you have such a problem with the way a lot of us are open minded and not clinging to various mystical beliefs- here's an idea, you can simply offer your perspective on the matter to users you see who are troubled. It's not going to change the fact that we all perceive hyperspace in our OWN WAYS. A troubled user, myself, and yourself, are all going to have different experiences. Who's to say what's right and wrong? Who's to say people who can't deal with smoking DMT should even be smoking DMT at all?

Another thing. A lot of the problems people have in regards to DMT stems from the fact they have absurd beliefs. They start believing all kinds of nonsense and that's when they get overwhelmed. Like demons. Like entities. Like God. Like aliens. Like pseudoshamanism.

My advice, to reiterate, is to ride it with an open mind free of definitions and attachments as they only serve to be dead ends.
I would never tell somebody beware of the dark and evil entities that lurk inside your mind! What a way to scare someone and feed them with unnecessary propaganda. Let them develop their own awareness free of fear and BS human definitions.


It's not hyperspace that's doing the harm. It's the silly beliefs people hold onto because they make them feel special.

Again, I never said dangers arent real, I just interpret the dangers of DMT experience differently than you. I dont need to suppose hyperspace entities are objectively real or not, as I have expressed this several times, to take proper precautions and deal with it with an open holistic way. You say demonic possession exists, and this to me seems to put oneself in a victim and disempowering position and prevents one from learning about the encounters with the dark side.

You say: "demonic posessions exist objectively, demons can hurt your soul, etc , do this or that and you'll be saved from hell".

I rather say/think: "there are experiences which people might feel a dark side in several ways, and regardless of the objective reality of what are these experiences, what matters is that they are subjectively important to oneself. So how can one minimize potential harm and maximize learning/benefit? I cannot say one ready answer for everybody, I can only offer my perspective and say what has worked for me and for others around me, or what Ive read having worked for others in this community, but ultimately you have to find for yourself what works as it might be completely different than all of the above."



Im sorry but I wont turn this into "let me show you how I help people and compare with you" thread, that would be absurd. I've never reduced advice to people who had issues with dark entities to "they are just part of your mind", because thats not how I believe a person with a psychologically troubling experience should be helped. Also, I find funny how you know what "the majority of cases" worked, as if you made a statistical analysis of it.

You can read the health and safety section and tell us if you disagree with anything.





What a lovely comparison, that sounds just like me indeed

By the way 'independently conscious being' is a supposition, one that you cannot know and neither can I nor anybody. I think maybe a good idea would be to check out gibran's thread about the 'improbability of hyperspace' again.




Tell me where I said you are wrong ? I said I dont agree with your interpretation, that I find it disempowering, I have another opinion, but most of all my real problem is with how you present yourself as the savior while us all are only harming others. You say that you dont want to convince others but you keep writting with this attitude that if others are not convinced they are clearly wrong and doing harm.



The harm is in presenting it as an absolute fact instead of your own personal view which may be wrong. The harm is in disempowering people who might not be having a problem with real entities but with their own selves. The harm is in the constant reinforcing of the idea that you're so experienced with everything and that others clearly dont know as much as you.



Clear twisting of my words. Im not uncomfortable with the topic, I find it interesting to talk about. I find uncomfortable that you keep expressing that you know The Truth, whatever it is, and that whoever doesnt agree with you harms others.

Thanks PrimateSphinx and to the others who both publicly and via PM supported me here in this.

Poo pooing the mystical beliefs derived from people's genuine experiences is not the only flavor around here... I think some people on this forum need to get used to the idea that we are not all cut from the same cloth, and that hardcore scientific materialism is not the state religion of the Nexus.

@ ۩

I'm not sure, but I guess your post above is addressing me?

Regardless. If you think that harm is a part of life... and I have been in chat with you when you were in rather fine form in that regard... more than once... what do you care if dark entity memes are perpetrated or not?

Why do you feel the need to judge what others say or believe if you are so open minded? For someone making the claim of open minded ness... you sure make a lot of judgments. Silly beliefs? We hold onto them because they make us feel special? Believing all kinds of nonsense? Absurd beliefs?

Really ۩?

I suppose you have some rational, peer-reviewed proof for your conjectures regarding my beliefs? Can you prove that my beliefs are silly?

Shame on you.

If you don't like what I am saying, don't read my posts. No need to try to play censor while claiming to be the open minded one.

I have only said repeatedly that I am not trying to convince anyone. And, I am not the one telling other people that they can't express their opinions.

What are you really saying here? That I shouldn't be allowed to say what I think about a very pertinent and regularly arising topic here?

Come now bro.

I didn't invent the entities meme. I didn't invent the dark entities meme either. These things have been around since before the Ice Age. They are among the oldest and most popular stories on the planet... and have always been so. My telling people to hang with the light beings is not going set off some kind of domino effect that strengthens what is already the most prevalent meme of all time.

You do realize that people read the Bible, the Koran, the Popul Vuh, the Epic of Gilgamesh, the Ramayana, the Zend Avesta etc. etc. before I was even born don't you? While I am probably old enough to be many Nexians' father, I am not that old.

My advice to all you who continue to tell me to shut up in veiled and insulting fashion... (to borrow a phrase from ۩) Get over it.

I would have shut up after the first post if you all didn't keep challenging me.

I have a right to express the hard earned wisdom I have acquired over many decades of direct experience. I have repeatedly talked about the extent of SWIM's experience... and what is wrong with that? If it helps people understand that I am not talking in theoretical terms here, I will reiterate... SWIM has done entheogens on 5 continents. SWIM has literally thousands of journeys under his belt. SWIM has encountered entities while completely sober. SWIM is a lifelong and daily lucid dreamer. SWIM is a regular astral projector. SWIM has trained with masters and shaman.

Now, if you truly feel that you are qualified to tell me I have no idea what I am talking about... go right ahead. I am not about censoring the free flow of ideas.

But shut up, I will not.

Bless you brother.

"What are you really saying here? That I shouldn't be allowed to say what I think about a very pertinent and regularly arising topic here?"

Chillax, I actually said the complete opposite:

"here's an idea, you can simply offer your perspective on the matter to users you see who are troubled"

I posted my perspective because I just don't see the point in making a big deal out of nothing when we are all free to express our various perspectives. That's great you think people need to be warned about dark and evil entities, more power to you, instead of whining about it why don't you just help them in posts? I don't get it. The fact that you are a 5 continent super shaman apprentice doesn't change the fact that I am still an individual with a unique perspective, just like you. Without differentiations there would be no individuality, no whole.