wow man, this post seriously makes me consider not smoking dmt again. Every trip I have had I have felt like i was being warned not to venture further, wow....

the ultimate thing is not to discover the there is no outside-inside paradox??? since its all the same???
I had been sure Dmt was allowing me to go "parallel Univerves" until they told me....
it was all inside of me... and that dindnt make any less real...

the Tibetam Book of the Deads, says, in the end, that if you dont understant that, you didnt understand anything...
that is all the same thing

inside, outside, me, you, planets, all beings, all Universes, all times, its all the same...

we have just the ilussion of separation...

but off course, we dont know for shure!!!

"The human eye is the portal to the individual soul"
"The music is the portal to the human soul"
AUMUMANO

What nobody seems to have pin pointed here (correct me if I'm wrong) is what the Dr. sees as a "proper experience"?

Is it not to be plunged out in whatever hyperspace that's awaiting you, demonic, heavenly or just alien?

As Jamie mentioned this is a very powerful psychedelic tool, it has been used for ages as a medicine, a gate to other dimensions and as a weapon in tribe wars where shamans in different tribes would actually take the concotion and battle eachother in these other realms with help from either good or evil spirits.

DMT is just as you've experienced no fairytale but sometimes more real and brutal than the ordinary life itself. No matter how softly you tread, expect to fall every now and then.

Best of luck on any future experiences you may have!

I went through a stage of recurring dark places, and this monster was in my head constantly, without even taking DMT to, it was as you describe, black and it looked like it had tenticals for arms, all black, and tiny red eyes, it was almost cartoon looking, but i just learned to laugh at it and treat the experience as if it was a dream.

Great approach, toppy, it's important to have an observers' attitude during these visions. I personally think that contemplating on the fact that our world is just an illusion, just like a rainbow helps a lot when dealing with difficult trips.

[quote=Dr Psychonaut]

Well to me the bottomline of this topic seems to be about the naive perspective on DMT, not wanting nor expecting a "bad" trip to occur, now why would anyone expect a "good" trip from this substance considering its historical use and alien effects? Psychedelics are not opiates, they don't make you feel "good" in the ordinary way some drugs do.

Just as I don't feel happy in everyday life, DMT doesn't make me feel happy in every journey, therefore I never use DMT If I'm anything but happy and I don't see that being possible If I were to use it on a daily basis, in time it would turn out as bad as any addiction with the craving for the "good" feeling to be re-expereienced whereas the bad effects have gotten dominant and dire.

For some reason it seems that people in this community tend to speak of DMT as a "conscious" inhibiting their own rather than a substance affecting their state of mind. To me, this lack of objectivity sounds unhealthy unless it's with a deep spiritual connection that one goes about regarding his/her journeys because the substance is then no longer looked upon as a drug or medcine but as a alien personality to whom the user endeavours to justify their use to.

And whom might I finally ask, endeavours to justify their use of a substance in such a frantic way? My answer would be; Either a shaman or an addict, the difference being in which one's faith lies, to the drug or to the journey? The shaman or addict comparison is due to the two being somewhat similar yet so different since shamans help to cure addictions and addicts, well they mostly just use in a selfish manner which makes the two a clear and strong contrast.

Now before OP goes all bananas over this somewhat judgemental post, I'm fairly certain that Dr Psychonau has more experience with spice than me (regardless of their kind or hostile spirit) and that this is MY view of what the cause to Dr Psychonaut's "bad" experiences might be, my theories are only to be seen as a possible aid and if you don't agree kindly discard them as insufficient

I hope my wall-of-text helps you, if not I'm sorry for the space it will take in your topic

The way I see it, spice serves as a catalyst that unlocks our innate ability to open portals to other places.

The fact that a typical person has more psychic sensory input over the course of a night than they do during the entire day they spend awake, indicates that travelling to other realms in our minds is a fundamental part of what being human is all about. In fact, even dogs and bears dream.

That most people only remember a tiny fraction of their journeys doesn't change this in the least. Whatever you think about the objective reality of the various places we are capable of journeying to (with or without help), it is undeniable that this is the nature of the experience subjectively.

So, we are left with judging spice (and dream) experiences in much the same way we judge any journey we might choose to undertake. If you decide to go to Hawaii, you can choose to remain in the relative safety of your resort hotel... but you can also go out and mingle with the locals. You can go surfing. You can climb volcanoes. You can have a luau. You can ride on a sail plane. Whatever you do, though, including staying in your room, has some potential for a negative experience. If you cut yourself on some coral while snorkeling off of Kauai, you wouldn't go home trying to pass legislation that no one can visit Hawaii, and that planes not be allowed to take people there.

You may write some safety tips on your blog or facebook page... you may warn some others you meet on their way to go snorkeling that the reef is sharp in one direction and smooth in another, and that coral cuts get seriously infected right away if you don't pee on them.

If someone came across this advice, and had never had any experience with coral... and had a urine phobia to boot... they might find your admonishments to be the ravings of a madman. They might think you were blowing it out of proportion due to the fact that millions of people snorkel every year without incident. But, if they took your warning to be a rationale for discouraging people from entering oceans, or to institute a campaign banning the sale of snorkels... you would have to take umbrage with their cluelessness.

Spice journeys are not much different from any adventure sport or exploration. In fact, I would say that going on safari, rock climbing, sky diving, skateboarding, motorcycle riding and a hundred other acceptable activities are considerably more dangerous. People get proscribed anti-depressants and then go and off themselves... in fairly large statistical numbers no less.

No one ever overdosed on DMT. I have never read about anyone committing a murder or driving under the influence...

It is an exotic mental/spiritual adventure sport. Do it, don't do it... your choice.

That's how I see it.

I don't see what a OD has to do with this but I suppose it's hard to function a vechile with no connection to your body or motorskills to speak of.

Your comparison on spice and hawaii was good though, if not very creative too!

About that most people only remember a tiny fraction of their experience, I can't say I fully agree with that, lately, everytime I journey I experience very similar things and beings, It's a Déjà vu all the time and after each time I can recall more and more and not just pieces but whole parts because of its striking similarities.

It's like: Oh, I'm here again and Oh! I remember that!
Now I haven't done the massive 40-50+mg doses YET but I suspect people go to high too soon which makes their experience resmeble a tivoli, the only thing they can really recall is how it started and ended and the feelings they felt because these aspects are as overwhelming as the visual medium.

I think Hyperspace Fool was also referring to the multitude of journeys we take every night when we lay down and go to bed. The dream land can feel just as real as any place we visit even whilst the most bizarre events imaginable are unfolding right before our eyes and those worlds can be terrifying beyond nelief. Some people have ability to undertand that they are dreaming and use this to their advantage, but it can take years of practice.

I think if the you feel the spice telling you not to go further, then you should probably listen - it may be the spice or it may be your higher self simply warning you that you are not ready yet or perhaps you have some serious issues that need to be worked out. One of the most beautiful/brutal aspects is theway that one is able to see their life and how they treat others without the ego but, that can be very painful indeed.

I personally think the spice was just telling you a harsh lesson.
It's not good to smoke NN every day, as a casual, recreational thing.

I really do feel that DMT serves a clear purpose and wants to convey a message that is understood.
It clearly doesn't approve of recreational, superficial use and really wants to connect with individuals
to share certain information.

I never did DMT dayly but I did it quite often when I just got my hands on quite a bit of it for the first time.
I had amazing, meaningfull journeys, but after a while got mostly blankness. I interpret that as the spice saying:
"You've received enough knowledge for now. First learn to apply that knowledge in your life. Then come back to
learn more". And after another while I took DMT and it became unpleasant, dark & sinister. DMT was just being clear.

Or my own soul, of which DMT was the catalyst. Who knows.
I don't think the torture has been so meaningless Dr. Psychonaught; It has awoken you to your compulsive use of DMT.
I hope you realise DMT oughta be used alot less frequently, in special occasions, in a calm, ceremonial setting, with
clear intentions as to what you wish to learn/reveal in your DMT journey. Try processing the visions & their meaning,
before indulging in more visions. Write them down, contemplate their possible meanings, draw visions...etc.

Share these contemplations and visions in this Topic:
https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=24280

DMT can be a very harsh, mercyless teacher, but only if your self's head is so thick it demands a little cracking open.
To let some light in so to speak. But you've got to admit DMT is a very patient teacher: It warns you WAAAAY ahead, with
subtle, sinister & wrathfull vibrations, WAAAAY before it decides to pull you apart wrecklessly.
Had I continued journeying and started smoking more frequently, like you did, I bet I would have been wrathfully
obliterated by DMT.

I'd say you should consider yourself lucky to have been awoken, even if it was so rudely.
Those elves didn't seem to "want to take away a beautyfull thing from you" as 1) it was never Your's to begin with
and 2) they seemed to want to protect you, because they knew the thing would become repulsive and harm you. Yet you
clinged to it and for that wrong choice you had to suffer.
It was the only way your stubborn self could see the error of it's ways.

I think, the fact that it´s mainly curiousity that made you overdo it, makes it likely that you´ll not only be fine, but also that you at some point in time WILL be able to extract something valuable out of this.

People who´re very eager to learn, are also more likely to fall on their noses sometimes.
I guess that´s what blake meant when he spoke about the relationship between wisdom and excess.

Interesting to see this thread get revived and see some more great insights. Bearing in mind it was 3 months back I had this experience now and in that time I've had some time to integrate. I have to admit the alarmist title was more of a ploy of mine to get as many as I could to read my experience and offer advice and it certainly worked (and thank you to all who have). I also wrote it almost immediately after the experience, and must stress that my view on what happened now is far less extreme than it was at the time.


I do feel I was using DMT compulsively at the time and did question whether this might be dangerous or unacceptable with such a powerful substance. I remember reading a thread here on the nexus where people said how many of them have gone through periods of smoking daily and how the spice often teaches them to journey less, which kind of led me to believe it was somewhat acceptable unless the spice advised me otherwise. Ofcourse I didn't read any experiences as extreme as what I eventually experienced and if I had I certainly would have trodden a bit more cautiously. That is also part of the reason for the post as I'm sure a lot of other new DMT users who have just extracted heaps of DMT might be tempted to journey more frequently than perhaps they should.


I've yet to take DMT since as I believe I need a lot of time to integrate the trips I had, and when I do feel the calling again I will only use changa or ayahuasca as I feel the smoked route is too short and intense an experience to integrate easily. But I did learn a lot from my DMT use, mostly about substance use and my own addictive behaviours which I have greatly modified since as I feel I have a great propensity towards addiction (as well a strong family history).


The majority of my trips I interpreted to have something to do with addictions. Things I've read of the astral plane (particularly C.W. Leadbeater) talk about entities of a low vibration being attracted to similar energies here, and how people with addictions, greed, hatred and other such energies can attract these perceived 'demons' which feed and feed off the energy of the host in a destructive cycle which often leads the affected individual to exacerbate these negative behaviours. I feel this concept was being shown to me in my DMT visions and that I needed to move to higher vibrations and leave addictions and obsessions behind, and this included my current obsession with DMT. I have since curbed these unhealthy behaviours and if ever they begin to surface again I will always remember the horrificness of that last trip, and I thank the spirit molecule for the lesson even though at the time I felt hard done by and somewhat terrified




SKA, I found your post very insightful and certainly agree with the above as I admit DMT was very patient with me showing me the same trips over and over before it finally had to teach me a lesson the only way my stubborn self would really acknowledge it.





I certainly agree with this analogy HF and have had a few people private message me after this saying how they feel it might be dangerous to smoke DMT as you might be making connections with dark entities and evil beings, but this is similar to saying you should avoid dream sleep as you might have nightmares in which the same things could happen. Like you say the spice serves as a catalyst to enter a state of mind that is innate to us much like sleep is to dreaming.

What you are saying kind of makes my point.

That most people only remember a tiny fraction of their experiences (as it is with dreaming as well) is borne out by the fact that when you get back to Hyperspace, you can recall things you have clearly forgotten.

The more you do it, and the more adept you become at bringing things back (again, as with dreaming) there starts to be a point where you remember an awful lot... but even then, I think this is only a fraction of what you actually experience.

It is my conjecture that hyperdimensional and non linear data, info, and experiences are rather difficult to cram into a normal "waking life" 3D moving through the 4th dimensional mind. Not impossible... just damn hard.

So, even if you get to the point where you can personally remember everything... it wouldn't change my estimation that MOST people only remember a tiny fraction.

Good point Hyperspace Fool.

This is how I've felt for a long time and every time I have a difficult journey I see this more clearly. I actually once had a trip where I was shown the mechanics of karma. It's one of the best/craziest trips I've had. At the end of that trip got arrested in a massive police operation in Spain 'cause they thought me and my friend were some lithuanian gangsters they were looking for. They had been spying on me and my friend acting like psychopaths and talking Icelandic. Hahaha the trip had been so great I even thought it was fun getting arrested. Didn't give a fuck

I don't think of karma as punishment. It's like you say just about balance. We are all one and come from the same source. If you hurt someone, you are hurting yourself. So you will feel that pain at some point in your existence. I think psychedelics are great tools to clean up a lot of karma in short time. You go beyond time so you can take a years suffering in matter of minutes or hours.

Karma is not about punishment. It's about balance. The perfect justice and it runs through the universe.

just remember, my friend it happens to the best of us.
ive been spooked off dmt as of recently due to some gripping experiences.
i will say this...
although it is true that apperception is malleable and that the mindstate can be molded and flexed [in certain situations]...
ive found its best to be absolutely neutral going into a dmt trip.
Have no stigmas or lurking thoughts left unresolved or any demons chasing your shadow.
I realise that this task is near-impossible to achieve flawlessly, and yes, there are times where dmt is simply going to rape you no matter how you slice the cake.
But take note of this dmt is heavily affected but conscienceness; easily swayed by current minstate.
whether you believe me or not, i never believed the words im telling you now,
until i began to have a period of sucessive, outrageously terrifying, malevolant -type trips.

and then of course i realised eventually...
i needed to extract myself from the process and consider that maybe, just maybe these demons i was visiting during that time were not so much 'strangers', but rather, just as much inside me as they were alien.

and so...
i took a break, re-evaluated my own personal psyche, took some time off from dmt to ascertain the experiences i had had, and eventually, after i'd relaxed a bit and returned to my neutral, more meditative non-inclined unrestricted version of myself... thats when i started using dmt again.
and let me tell you brother, nothing but pure light.
brilliant experiences; the jawdropping kind.

Equally terrifying though still can be any [and probably most] dmt exeriences whether 'love-bound' or malignant.
The difference is of course,
feeling the awesome afterglow
that is the infusion of higher-being and excitement and divinity and mystery upon returning from hyperspace,
rather than alternatively feeling as if one should go huddle in a blanket and cry himself till no more tears come out, and fear these kinds of things that revel behind closed doors.

and this observation is completely non-coincidental, but rather a recurring theme with my dmt use. periods of breaking, re-evaluating and integrating and returning back towards what is essentially, the light of dmt,
so maybe its a similar process for others, im not sure.

fact is...
if you feel really fucking amazing about yourself and have a general diligence and awareness of your daily activities, your emotions, thought-processes...
and if you feed your 'self' the knowledge and thirst for self-fulfillment it so rightfully deserves...
then you will be strong and soulful.

and after all this, whether you get raped, scared shitless, massacred, or defeated or dug into a ditch by dmt,
well itll be entirely non-circumstancial.
because youll be returning from hyperspace back to a place [aka mindstate] where you are ok and accepting of whatever comes your way.
negative energies and influence aint got shit over simple, endearful, oh-so-sexy, self-love.

"What if we could share the world around us, in all its everlasting pleasures, if by simply taking a look inside the world inside ourselves?" - these are the inward-facets that we must explore in our existence.
and sometimes you will face challenges in this subject; sometimes you will find yourself trembling in the ever-glowing wisp of insidious ideas and deviations, but this is not the true nature of dmt. -imo

i personally believe that dmt is the ultimate reflection of one's highest form of imagination and ability to 'escape' as they say [from reality], but in conjuction unfortunately, tethered by the conscienceness, personality and emotional state of the user.
if you are calm and in control of the above-mentioned, but also free and holding on not to a single thing!,
than dmt will be given liberty to take you to truly breathtaking places.

Some ppl have this gift of letting go and negating they're emotional inbalances very easily. others must work hard at it.
and i would say most ppl will never achieve these abilities or even recognize them as crucial feats.

To summarize, i personally believe dmt is highly-hanging on to humanity; tightly wound with the user's thoughts and feelings.
Not entirely deterministic of what a trip will turn out as, but influencial, undoubtedly.
Conscienceness is a key contibutor to dmt the same ol' way its been with psilcybin and lsd and mescaline alike ['bad trip'].

im sry if this post was rendundant, but im not sure so many realise how entangled and not necessarily chaotic dmt is in actualization. [which could be another ten paragraphs trying to argue that statement alone]
i think ill end here. just thought this was an interesting tip related to dark experiences.
pce

Wow, thanks bigmack for that great post which was far from redundant. It spoke volumes about the way I've been thinking about DMT since this experience in trying to get my head around why it happened. I very much beleive it was an incredibly important lesson I was taught and this was the best way to get such a lesson across.





I love this part because it sums up my mindstate when this happened. I was in a very good place (and still am) and then I had this horrific trip and wondered if it was punishment for something or if I needed to live in fear of these evil forces. However I was quick to realise that I could have an experience as horrific as that and go straight back to my usual happy-go-lucky self, while acknowledging what happened as a nudge from the powers-that-be to just make sure I steered clear of addictive behaviours that could one day take me to a place of horror like I was shown, only then it won't be just a 'trip' there.


Contrary to the title now in retrospect the experience has far from scared me off DMT, though I will no longer just pick up the pipe at the drop of a hat when I feel like I wanna journey to some far out destinations just cos I can. It will be when I feel the calling of the spirit molecule reach out and let me know when the next lesson is to be imparted.

It will be interesting if you decide to journey again Dr. what your experience might be like. I wonder if the dark beings who practically raped you last time might look entirely different and say 'well, glad you got the point.' lol.

beautiful to hear, its exactly what i was thinking when i read ur story,
i got this feeling as if your impression of trip was perhaps premature, and that maybe you hadn't come to terms entirely with the experience yet. [im only imagining this the way i would have reacted had i been in your shoes]
Sometimes it may take weeks-months-years even to fully reach a 'bird's-eye view' over an event like this.

and so... the point is, coming back to the 'fear' from that trip, is that its needed i think.
Not only present at times during trips, but also an important gamechanger in the entire ritualization of dmt.

As truly astounding and terrifying as your trip may have been...
well...
with each waking morning,
and every passing night.... that feeling [once overwhelming]
starts to eventually receed a little.
A bit here, a bit there...
and as that fateful night becomes further and further a part of history,
so does the 'feel' and prescence of it, begin to tumble away too.
Until eventually, even inevitably id say,
one finds himself becoming intrigued again; inticed by the idea and experience of it all.

I usually let my rationality flutter around the idea of a next departure with dmt for some time.
Even weeks, ill hopscotch around the consideration, usually cautionary of former visits.
but it always happens some way or another,
where I'll bring myself to smoke some... convince myself really...
but in the process and result of my decision,
it works out so I wind up having,
yet another...
ineffable experience of macrocosmic proportion.

anyways, thats what i figured after so many of these trips time and time again.
no matter how it turns out, there's almost always something about it of indescribable astonishment.

The dmt experience is near next to never of insipid intent.

so going back to the ritualization thing, i think thats why its so prominently part of dmt use [for most, not everyone]
Because ultimately the objective is to open one's self up to the divination, gift, vision or insight that dmt offers.

But from my personal experience and opinion, i feel theres always needed 'periods of grace' where one can reflect and integrate or even collect himself if necessary. Im not a fan of mutiple tokes within a day, or multiple aya journeys within a short period of time either. Especially with the latter. I can attest to becoming extremely dysfunctional after my first 4-5 aya journeys last year [in 5-6 weeks].
I was finding it hard to be a part of society, go about day-to-day life [work and school],
doing mundane tasks or anything i didnt enjoy really, was a nightmare.
I was just kind of obssesed and probably too deeply moved by the sucession of trips and the things i had seen, and didnt really give a shit about anything else.

This is so very powerfull. This is exactly why I do not fear DMT experiences even if they send
hordes of evil dying to do harm my way. In the powerfull light of my self-love(as you name it)
this all seems quite laughable. Like a childish act trying to scare & impress.

While I can feel my "lower self" respond in terror, my Higher Self isn't fooled.
Like it projects a sphere of confidence, calm & love around itself and the body
and any "evil" that penetrates it's perimeters, turns into something wonderfull.
Is broken down and rearranged into something healthy.

Where my lower self feels attacked and provoked to retaliate, my higher self
doesn't feel attacked by these "evil" manifestations in Spice journeys. It can
even find the compasion to forgive them.


All this only makes me more puzzled about the deeper nature of "DMT entities"
Manifested Archetypes of our own souls? Or external beings, each with an
independant consciousness, just lacking a physical form?
Are you forgiving your lower self? Or are you forgiving disembodied/bodyless
entities for trying to provoke your lower self?

So far we have no idea which of the 2 theories, if any of them, is more
likely than the other. Seemingly, no matter what
the content of a Spice Journey is, it is still always marked with a
peculiar set of perceptions; Travelling fast forward through tunnels,
Geometric Mandala-portals, Entities seeking to actively communicate
& interact with the observer. This strange coherence and consistency
seems to indicate some strange level of Objectivity in the nature of
these experiences.