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The Day Tripper
#41 Posted : 11/17/2011 9:19:38 PM

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soulfood wrote:
The position of mescaline on that chart confuses me.


Yeah i don't buy it either, I've read The LD50 for mescaline has been established in the range of 800-1200mg/kg orally, from multiple sources on the web. Thats like 50g+ for most people. But theres also a report the military shot someone up with 15g mescaline intravenously and he died Shocked Rolling eyes Crying or very sad. They did some pretty terrible things with these compounds to human subjects, and that could be the source of some of these misinformed "lethal doses". Like if they were comparing the 15g intravenous dose to a 600mg oral effective dose that would make sense even though flat out wrong.
"let those who have talked to the elves, find each other and band together" -TMK

In a society in which nearly everybody is dominated by somebody else's mind or by a disembodied mind, it becomes increasingly difficult to learn the truth about the activities of governments and corporations, about the quality or value of products, or about the health of one's own place and economy.
In such a society, also, our private economies will depend less upon the private ownership of real, usable property, and more upon property that is institutional and abstract, beyond individual control, such as money, insurance policies, certificates of deposit, stocks, etc. And as our private economies become more abstract, the mutual, free helps and pleasures of family and community life will be supplanted by a kind of displaced citizenship and by commerce with impersonal and self-interested suppliers...
The great enemy of freedom is the alignment of political power with wealth. This alignment destroys the commonwealth - that is, the natural wealth of localities and the local economies of household, neighborhood, and community - and so destroys democracy, of which the commonwealth is the foundation and practical means.” - Wendell Berry
 

Good quality Syrian rue (Peganum harmala) for an incredible price!
 
Untm
#42 Posted : 11/17/2011 9:19:55 PM

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You mean Flunitrazepam? I've never heard of Rohypnol before, sorry if I came off rude; the study just seems biased thats all.

Tea fell into water
Smoalk N,N DMT errrrday

Quote:
11:53:11 ‹Untm› Nexus chat and anti-gravity simulated racing is my coffee.

 
Sky Motion
#43 Posted : 11/17/2011 10:17:56 PM

<3


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Yeah I'm going to have to agree with others and say that the chart posted does not look official or documented or true in any way. Who would refer to MDMA as ecstacy? We're not talking about pressed pills here for raves, I'm talking pure shards.
 
The Day Tripper
#44 Posted : 11/17/2011 10:36:17 PM

Rennasauce Man


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Sky Motion wrote:
Yeah I'm going to have to agree with others and say that the chart posted does not look official or documented or true in any way. Who would refer to MDMA as ecstacy? We're not talking about pressed pills here for raves, I'm talking pure shards.


Totally. But ironically, it seems that the point its trying to make could be made even better if the substances had correct ed50/ld50 ratios. If that's even possible, I'm sure they don't have values for humans for many of those substances, and are going off of math based on rats and other lower mammals. LD50 is impossible to calculate in man, being that people are not being lethally dosed with these substances in a clinically controlled environment.

To include anecdotal doses that caused death however, still does not help much as everyone's different biochem, the purity of said substance, and the health of whoever took it all come in to play. So charts like that, that claim ed50/ld50 ratios should be considered theoretical at best, and even then always check the sources of the research and exactly how they went about getting those numbers. You'd think NORML would have their shit in order, but mabey not.
"let those who have talked to the elves, find each other and band together" -TMK

In a society in which nearly everybody is dominated by somebody else's mind or by a disembodied mind, it becomes increasingly difficult to learn the truth about the activities of governments and corporations, about the quality or value of products, or about the health of one's own place and economy.
In such a society, also, our private economies will depend less upon the private ownership of real, usable property, and more upon property that is institutional and abstract, beyond individual control, such as money, insurance policies, certificates of deposit, stocks, etc. And as our private economies become more abstract, the mutual, free helps and pleasures of family and community life will be supplanted by a kind of displaced citizenship and by commerce with impersonal and self-interested suppliers...
The great enemy of freedom is the alignment of political power with wealth. This alignment destroys the commonwealth - that is, the natural wealth of localities and the local economies of household, neighborhood, and community - and so destroys democracy, of which the commonwealth is the foundation and practical means.” - Wendell Berry
 
Untm
#45 Posted : 11/17/2011 10:49:20 PM

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Quote:
If that's even possible, I'm sure they don't have values for humans for many of those substances, and are going off of math based on rats and other lower mammals. LD50 is impossible to calculate in man, being that people are not being lethally dosed with these substances in a clinically controlled environment.

To include anecdotal doses that caused death however, still does not help much as everyone's different biochem, the purity of said substance, and the health of whoever took it all come in to play. So charts like that, that claim ed50/ld50 ratios should be considered theoretical at best,


My point exactly; I enjoy NORML's work but I just get the feeling a pro-cannabis biased is hidden in this 'research'.

Not that I have a problem with cannabis or any drug, I just like accurate studies.

Tea fell into water
Smoalk N,N DMT errrrday

Quote:
11:53:11 ‹Untm› Nexus chat and anti-gravity simulated racing is my coffee.

 
Parshvik Chintan
#46 Posted : 11/17/2011 10:55:57 PM

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Untm wrote:
My point exactly; I enjoy NORML's work but I just get the feeling a pro-cannabis biased is hidden in this 'research'.

Not that I have a problem with cannabis or any drug, I just like accurate studies.

the only thing i know definitively, is that they have done much more research than i Smile
My wind instrument is the bong
CHANGA IN THE BONGA!
 
Untm
#47 Posted : 11/18/2011 1:13:48 AM

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No doubt they have done much more work than myself as well.

Tea fell into water
Smoalk N,N DMT errrrday

Quote:
11:53:11 ‹Untm› Nexus chat and anti-gravity simulated racing is my coffee.

 
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