"they" Don't put you nowhere. im afraid its yourself. mi recommendation to you, is this:

DO NOT DO DRUGS. YOU ARE NOT AN APPROPIATE PERSON FOR MIND VOYAGE.

ok, sorry. Yes, I was being a little bit facetious with my post, but only because I believe I have experienced similar places, and was making light of it. It's possible for you to move on as well, though you seem stuck on certain themes. I know you didn't say you were afraid of death, which is why I made a point of saying in my post, I'm sure you're not afraid of death. I was trying to express an opinion related to issues, but tried to express that the point I was making wasn't referring to you specifically. You did say that the hellish place you are afraid of might be what happens at death. So for you, the hellish place does equate to death. I was using death in the context you used it. I also used entities in the context that you used them.

Well, I hope you move on from these unpleasant experiences, but I wouldn't touch dmt again if I were you.

A truckload of wise advice here!

With all the emphasis on the familiarity of this hell... I automatically think of BIRTH. It's not too farfetched to think the DMT has opened up some deep-buried information channels. Being born is probably more hellish than dying.

I don't deny the 'reality' of hyperspace and entities, but it also has a very personal, subjective side to it...

Anyway, if it made you a better person DMT scores positive in the statistics, some people just need a whip rather than a sausage

I only have one thing to add to this thread.

No matter what your beliefs about demons, possesion, heaven, hell.

DMT, and all psychedelics, are only a mirror that reflects inner parts of ourselves.

This is why psychedelics are so good for self work.

I was having horrible anger issues for about 2 years straight. It was creeping into every part of my life. It was because of this that I chose to revisit psychedelics later in life. Every sunday for 1 month straight I would wake up 4 am. go to the living room and consume 3 grams of cubensis mushrooms and then sit down and meditate with myself. These were some of the worst experiences I've ever had. BUT they were the experiences I needed to have to clear the baggage I was carrying at the time.

So how exactly was this baggage cleared? Well I was confronted with who I was. I hated it. So mushrooms magnified this 100 fold. Eventually in a vision I decided to embrace my inner anger demon ( he took real form in visions...I called him Ed...laugh if you want) . Once I accepted him in vision I could accept him in life. Aka I learned to accept my anger. By accepting that I'm was a human being tossed around on a sea of emotion I was brought face to face with what emotion really is. emotion is brain material. The part of you that you call you is mind material. Unless you have a history of meditation and watching your own mind this my seem like non-sense, but if you just applied that same basic logic to you visions you will very quickly realize that this is correct.

Your visions are you. What else could they be? DMT interacts with your brain just like any other neurotransmitter. However, it unlocks parts of YOU, that perhaps you are uncomfortable with or not familiar with... Which brings me back to my point.

My point is this.. when you become comfortable with YOU, (all of you) then your journeys will be filled with love and light. <-- I promise that to you.

As long as you are not willing to embrace your fear and confront your inner demons you will likely be doomed to having very negative experiences...

I wish you the best brother. Whether you chose to do DMT again or not consider meditation as a means to find out who you really are.

Peace

No offense, but if you are repeatedly cast into this hellish place through your use of DMT, why on Earth would you continue to use it? If you find it to be so evil and soul stealing, just STOP USING IT, man... because (and I hate to state the painfully obvious, but) it clearly ain't your thing.

That's my personal advice to you: don't try smoalking moar or less; just stop smoalking the stuff altogether. There isn't a bit of shame in that. But to continue to do it, have awful experiences and then repeatedly come here to warn us all of the potential soul stealing dangers... well, that just makes you appear to be an unstable glutton for punishment, and it can't be all that much fun for you either.

I'm sorry. That's as nicely as I can put it. I hope you feel better and resolve to stick to prayer, meditation and fasting.

yes its the familiarity that bothers me still. Yes oddly i agree with you regarding DMT making me a better person, HOWEVER i full heartedly believe that you are dealing with the same evil influencial forces that cause men to commite murder, rape, and suicide. I have no doubt of this, you are opening up your soul for anything to jump in and take the controls of you. Your also opening yourself up to the pagen gods... which apparently are more real than i could have previous imagined. DMT has taught me alot, but I believe only because of who i am and my ability NOT to be influenced and my free will of thought. There is a true source on the other side and we must stay focused on that source and never stray from our path in life. You do NOT need DMT or any mind altering substances to follow this path, cheating/hacking/circumventing the system via DMT and other ethnogens will have immediate negative reprecussions. Adam and Eve and the apple... want to know what God knows? Eat this fruit? ... i think we all know the consequences of that decision. We as low level humans are ment to follow a course in life, to not question it nor stray from it. I hope my story causes some of you to think twice before picking up the pipe. This is not a means of communicating with God or Angels, rather its the other side with will manipulate and use you and honestly , pitifully, you will all (myself included) be too entralled to realized it. The lies and deciet are beyond our human capability to recognize and to defend ourselves against. The ONLY thing DMT has convinced me of is of a unquestionable existance of life beyond death and beyond our 5 senses. The things i've been told while in DMT world are all coming true to date, its unimaginable the things that have happened to me that were predicted and told to me last year..(they are all true now). I also have been too fearful/smart to view the other side again. We simply are not prepared to nor created to experience this reality at this time in our enlightenment PERIOD. Disagree i'm sure and defend your drug, but I speak the truth, use it to open your eyes and begin living life without asking the questions, just accept and follow the path God (or whomever...) has laid before you. I again hope my story positive influences others to break the cycle.

You're a frightened little tit mouse with a head full of bogeymen. Spare us your scary rhetoric.

:evil:
Well the mirror lets you see what's inside of you. Some just don't see it, and some don't like what they see.

There is no point in coming here to try convince experienced users they got it wrong.
It is clear that you need a break from your insane relationship. Loosing the plot ain't a nice thing to live

Good luck with your dilemma. But please stop telling us we should fellow you "guru".

It's okay, skinwalker, you just got scared. Everyone gets scared sometimes.

Don't be afraid. But it's true you can't ask angels and heaven trips. it jsut doesn't work this way. neither speaking with dead relatives at will. It sure would require some good medium skills. Not just smoking something.
There is a lot to integrate from your experience. take the time and reflection. without jumping into more negativity. Or your gonna have hellish trips until the end of your life.

If I would shit my pants, I wouldn't blame the thing that scared me for ruining my pants. I would instead try to deal with the fear that comes if I encounter the "thing" again.

[/quote]

yes its the familiarity that bothers me still. Yes oddly i agree with you regarding DMT making me a better person, HOWEVER i full heartedly believe that you are dealing with the same evil influencial forces that cause men to commite murder, rape, and suicide. I have no doubt of this, you are opening up your soul for anything to jump in and take the controls of you. Your also opening yourself up to the pagen gods... which apparently are more real than i could have previous imagined. DMT has taught me alot, but I believe only because of who i am and my ability NOT to be influenced and my free will of thought. There is a true source on the other side and we must stay focused on that source and never stray from our path in life. You do NOT need DMT or any mind altering substances to follow this path, cheating/hacking/circumventing the system via DMT and other ethnogens will have immediate negative reprecussions. Adam and Eve and the apple... want to know what God knows? Eat this fruit? ... i think we all know the consequences of that decision. We as low level humans are ment to follow a course in life, to not question it nor stray from it. I hope my story causes some of you to think twice before picking up the pipe. This is not a means of communicating with God or Angels, rather its the other side with will manipulate and use you and honestly , pitifully, you will all (myself included) be too entralled to realized it. The lies and deciet are beyond our human capability to recognize and to defend ourselves against. The ONLY thing DMT has convinced me of is of a unquestionable existance of life beyond death and beyond our 5 senses. The things i've been told while in DMT world are all coming true to date, its unimaginable the things that have happened to me that were predicted and told to me last year..(they are all true now). I also have been too fearful/smart to view the other side again. We simply are not prepared to nor created to experience this reality at this time in our enlightenment PERIOD. Disagree i'm sure and defend your drug, but I speak the truth, use it to open your eyes and begin living life without asking the questions, just accept and follow the path God (or whomever...) has laid before you. I again hope my story positive influences others to break the cycle. [/quote]


Beware, beware, beware the smiling fools who speak the "truth."

you know what you have to do then

what a great blessing

lol just proves you've never gone "as deep" as i've gone. You have no idea fear is such a childish term for what i went through. I think eternal infinate severity PAIN would more suffice. Fear ? lol the shit i've seen and done in the real world would have most of you shitting your pants. I'm afraid of the PAIN, i had no idea such pain could exist, and their is no ceiling as to how severe it will go. Obviously none of you believe or understand or care what i went through. Not that you should care, but why ignore the warning of a fellow psychonaut who actually may have peeked alittle further behind the curtain than most and saw creatures and entities that do NOT have you best intentions at heart? Your all mesmarized by the ohhhhh bouncing jeweled eggs and shit... while your souls are being experimented on and raped.

Its so easy to manipulate mankind from their perspective, you all so willingly come to the feast. I wont check in again for a while and its sad that my concerns will of course be unheeded.

how do you deal with the fear of sticking your unprotected hand into an open flame? How does a child deal with the fear of being abused? How does a woman deal with the fear of being raped?

despite DMT appearing to be a mental internal experience, what i experienced was actual PAIN on a level beyond just the physical. This wasnt imagined or some boogyman dream. Even a inanimate rock (and the atoms within) would spontanaously develop the emotion of fear if it encountered this entity.

i agree, and understand the wisdom of your words. this was somewhat of an unrealized blessing that has forever changed my outlook on life.

Sorry to hear about your negative experience (an understatement I'm sure).

I'm reminded of the words of Don Juan in Casteneda's material: "We are luminous beings and for a luminous being only personal power matters."

Overall would you consider yourself to be an empowered person, one who knows who he is and his value as a spiritual being? How connected do you feel to your essence? How much love fills your heart each day? (I'm not trying to insinuate that any one of these could be your problem, just trying to offer perspective)

Are you afraid of hell? What's your upbringing like as far as fire and brimstone religions are concerned?

I ask all these things because as we often speculate with regards to hyperspace that it is a door into the collective unconcious and there are many, many themes of hell, fire, and brimstone echoed throughout the collective psyche. It could be possible that if you had already had a certain aspect of your mind attached to some of these concepts (you mentioned the place seemed familiar so maybe you were even aware that it sits in the back of your mind) that, with just a dash of fear thrown in, you could spiral into a truly hellish experience.

Another thought. Have you read Stanislav Grof's booke The Holotropic Mind? He devotes four chapters of his book (available for free in pdf format, just google it) to correlating different negative experiences in psychedelic states to potential complications during birth. For instance, he claims that right before the fetus is born, it experiences an absolute confusing hell with no possible way to know what is happening to it or why or if it will ever stop. The womb starts to contract on the fetus causing extreme discomfort, chemical agents are released causing the unborn child to experience unpleasant sensations, etc. He claims that during psychedelic therapy sessions he was able to revert people back as a witness to their own birth to help them sort out some of the complications that caused them to have all sorts of psychological disadvantages in life. The correlation he draws between psychedlic archtypes of hell and punishment are directly related to this physical process we all go through with varying degrees of difficulty.

I'm only speculating I haven't had the torn-to-shreds trip yet (I hope not to but it may be unavoidable for everyone). I would really recommmend you download the pdf and at least read those first four chapters (only about 50 pages or so) and I think it might really help shed some insight into why you might have experienced that hellish place and why it might have seemed so familiar to you.

Until then, I'm sending you all my compassion and healing love

Yes skinwalker, I don't see why you should be here because many have said that dmt is clearly not your thing. But jeez man, check your logic! You say you

This is clearly not true. If it were true, then a whole bunch of people on dmt would be raping, murdering and committing suicide, and this is just not the case.

You go on about the evils of dmt. Well this may surprise you, but we seem to be doing just fine. Our souls are ok. Certainly no more manipulated than before trying any of this. I think I've asked you this before, but what is it about dmt that you believe makes the soul vulnerable? If there is a soul that can be manipulated by otherworldly forces, why can't those forces just rape your soul whenever they want? What's keeping it protected? To me it doesn't seem like anything keeps it protected. The forces that we encounter on dmt are hidden, not experienced by us most of the time. They can manipulate anything without you knowing. You think dmt brings down some kind of soul shield? What about sleep? Doesn't that bring down you defenses as well?

And for some reason, you deny the validity of any experience other than yours. If someone disagrees with you, then you say they obviously haven't gone as deep as you, as if you're the only who could possibly go so deep. And if others claim they HAVE gone as deep as you and they're ok with it, then that doesn't seem to mean anything to you. There is a certain logic to what Art Vandlay said. You are the scared one. OK, we get it that you're trying to warn people that dmt can be scary. I agree. So what? You're the one who's trying to convince the everyone on the planet of what is right and wrong for their own life. If you believe it's wrong for the soul to use dmt, or it's wrong of Eve to eat an apple, then you shouldn't try dmt or eat apples.



Then these otherworldly forces that can manipulate can do it however they want. If we have no way of defending ourselves, if we are not smart enough to recognize their deceit, then doing, or not doing dmt won't help anything. These other forces can just manipulate anything any way they want and we wouldn't even know it. So your claim is that we are protected from these other forces unless we use dmt? At that point, our souls get manipulated and raped etc? Again, we seem to be doing just fine.




What course? The course you say? You can go ahead and follow whatever course you feel is right for you.



I don't think it will. I think it's a lot more likely that someone considering trying this would probably think, "damn! is it really that powerful? Is this for real? I have GOT to try this". You say dmt has convinced you of an afterlife, you've said that there is some hidden forces to be found. That's likely to motivate people to want to try it. You think people would turn away from such knowledge because you also claim it's scary? People won't understand the fear you're talking about until they try it, but they'll be fascinated by the power you speak of. It doesn't seem like you're trying to keep people from picking up a pipe, it seems like..... well.... what Art said. And nothing you said will keep anyone who has actually tried dmt from using again because their own experience speaks many volumes more than yours. Their own experience is going to have a lot more influence than your words. There are plenty of people out there who have reported very scary hellish reports. It is well known that psychedelics can take people to very scary places. Most peoples experiences are not about angels and God as you seem to think.

When you say that dmt has caused you to feel fears that you didn't know could exist, that might actually dissuade some people from trying it. But when you say that dmt has convinced you of an afterlife, that you've communicated with beings from the other side, and that people are not meant to use dmt because our puny human minds and souls are not ready for the otherworldly things that dmt opens up..... all that would make people want to try it, and they'll be willing to push aside their apprehension due to fear. Your certainty that people are not meant to use dmt because they should follow the path of God merely comes off as preachy and no one is inclined to listen, unless they already think a similar religious way, and had zero inclination of using any psychedelic. But if you like, you can stand at a subway station and hand out flyers about the consequences for the soul that dmt inflicts. I'm just saying.... for every person you try to dissuade, 10 will actually be more inclined to try it. Most people are already afraid of psychedelics. But believe it or not, there is a MUCH stronger desire out there to KNOW, to experience otherworldly things. You talking about how dmt can open these doors is what is going to grab peoples attention. The scary part is beside the point. Not that I think your thread will grab all that much attention among the tonnes of reports already out there. Just saying.

That's my intuition as well OP. Read that book I mentioned, I really think it might help shine a light on things.

Dealing is facing it. Right on, even if it hurts like hell. Not resisting in another words. Fears are to be dealt with only by facing them. Then one no longer is afraid.
And especially not blaming it.