last night i was over a friend's house (i'll name him x), it was me, him (x), and 2 other friends that came over, i'll name them y and z.

so we were hanging out, x, y and z were casually drinking alcohol, i was not, they were planning on later going out to a pub or club, which is when i was planning to go back to my gf's house.

we talked about many things, but the topic of this thread is about entheogens, so i will omit a lot of discussion subjects.

firstly, our conversations led to someone saying they'd seen a movie and explaining it, what ever it was i hadn't heard of it, then they asked if anyone had seen any movies recently, when it was my turn i said i'd watched the spirit molecule, and they asked about it, so i gave a brief explanation as to what it was about, and what dmt was and a whole bunch of stuff.

x was an experienced weed smoker, and had taken mushrooms once and reached only level 2 (going by the levels at the shroomery). y had smoked weed once, recently, and had only felt sedation, z may or may not have had weed in the past, so with this in mind it was hard to really explain what a dmt trip is like, and when the conversation led to other entheogens it was also hard to explain what a user experiences with them.

i recommended that they should all watch the spirit molecule if they wanted as it was very interesting, even for people who aren't into "drugs"

y started to question about the safety of using such substances, i would explain that with things such as dmt, mescaline, psilocybin, lsd, etc, they didn't cause physical or psychological dependence, in very chronic usage weed can cause slight physical dependence, and it can also cause psychological dependence, and blah blah, i tried to tell them that there was so much information on all these things and it's hard to go into any detail in a short amount of time, but these substances have been used for thousands of years with no detrimental consequences...

y couldn't get his head around what i was saying and started to talk about his knowledge of the human body (he is a runner and also has a degree in human movement or something like that) and he was talking about how there's the natural workings of the body, and then if something is introduced (he would say injected) into the body that is not normal, then the body would have to act to rid itself of this substance (he would say synthetic chemical or chemical), and that no matter what it was, this would always cause some sort of negative effect.

i tried to explain many things to him, the difference between an organic compound and a synthetic one, and that these thing are organic, and dmt is even produced endogenously. i also explained that the active dose is very small (ie 50mg of dmt), i also explained that i have a basic knowledge of negative feedback in homeostasis and metabolism and stuff like that, and that how is this different from eating and drinking in a normal human diet and blah blah blah, i tried to explain so many things to him, i which i could give a better account of our discussion.

it seemed as though he wouldn't take in anything i said, and when i get passionate about something in this way i can get pretty heated (like i could easily understand if someone thought i was getting angry and aggressive, but it's me being passionate), i also felt that y was getting angry and aggressive and annoyed/frustrated at me.

but yeah it ended up being pretty back and forward, each other defending their position. i felt bad at how i'd reacted in the end.

some things i can specifically remember, he said that not everyone can do it(partake in entheogens), people that are at
uni, have full time jobs, athletes, and i said why not? and he said well how much do you have to do it?
i said, once every 6 months or a year or 2 years... why? how much did you think i did it?
he said he didn't know, i asked if he thought i was on something and he said well yeah maybe, i said that entheogens are my biggest passion and i do them about once every 3 or 4 months, i have 20kg of mescaline containing cacti at home yet i've only done mescaline once and that was 15 months ago.

another things was, i was trying to ask what his point was in trying to say that everything has negative effects, and he didnt even know what he was trying to say he was just saying it, i was asking why it's relevant.
how is it different from eating carrots, which have betacarotine or what ever food that has something in it? i tried to explain that he shouldn't form an opinion on these and he shouldn't extrapolate his knowledge onto these things for which he knows nothing about, and that he should go and read a whole bunch of stuff and then get back to me, i said that it's not his fault, in this society that we're brought up in, these things are demonised and no one knows anything about them and has a biased opinion of them.

i dont have to explain to any of you how big this subject is and how much information there is, and it's hard to give a good explanation in a short amount of time, and i dont even really know what i'm trying to say in this thread, i just want some guidance or something..

in the end, after we finished the heated discussion, i said to him, look, putting everything aside for a sec, can you tell me what your weekly alcohol intake is, or monthly, and he said, yeah i know it's unhealthy..

like he even said earlier in the discussion that he didnt think entheogens were bad or anything, i dont even know why he was arguing, maybe he didnt either.

we parted ways on good terms, i hope he looks into this stuff.

i feel like i had a reason to post this but it escapes me, as does much of the discussion.

i hope i didnt go about that discussion in a bad way.

if anyone has anything to say on this please do.

i should stop procrastinating now and get on with assessments that need to be done asap.

thanks for reading.

Good post, I enjoyed reading that.

You should just understand that there are people who don't understand these things. Someone who hasn't used any drug aside from alcohol has a fractured view of drugs in general. The reasons for this are obvious, alcohol being one of the most dangerous and impairing drugs, yet legal at the same time.

Some people get the idea that since alcohol is legal anything illegal must be at least, if not more dangerous. The problem with this is most drugs are not scheduled according to their danger level. Most overdoses occur from acetaminophen(Tylenol) yet this remains legal over the counter. Cigarettes are also very dangerous and are legal as well.

I would suggest trying to explain your point a little better, and trying to understand his point as well. I agree with him that DMT can have negative effects, but so can anything, it depends how you take it and what kind of person you are. For the most part, DMT will have no long term negative effects on people. It can have deep, lasting psychological impacts though, and for some close to the edge of their minds already it can be very dangerous to their mental state. I would not advise anyone with a mental disorder, or even just a possibility of having the wrong mindset, to smoke DMT.

On the other hand you are absolutely right to say that, comparatively speaking, DMT is one of the safest drug, and substances in general, an individual can take.
A drug is any substance which alters normal bodily functioning, DMT definitely does this as I normally don't experience those sort of things. But that doesn't make it inherently negative, I think it's more about how you do it and the reasons for it.

Take this all in stride, maybe if you talk more with your friend and explain a few basic things. DMT is in the body and part of normal human metabolism, people have used it for millennia and that comparatively it is one of the safest drugs.

I hoped this helped

i did explain that set and setting are very important also, and yeah there was a lot i could have said, and yeah i could also have tried to understand him better, though i did try to.

i probably wont see him for a few months or more so i wont really get another opportunity.

thanks for replying

I have a room mate at my house that is always gone on buisness for at least a third of the month. When he gets home its always the same.. Drink drink drink drink all Fu**in day long and into the night if he don't pass out. If I so much as step out for a puff he calls me a drug addict lol.. The other day we are watching intervention and I happen to say something like that guy (the methadone addict on tv show) needs to take 5 or 10 grams of shrooms and let the universe slap him around a little, I guarantee he will stop using the methadone.. My room mate then proceeds to tell me he should put me into rehab for my mushroom use. I say I'm sorry friend but I haven't consumed shrooms in a few months and I haven't even smoked herb in over a month, this coming from the man who is cracking a beer at 8am in the morning cause it's his day off.. Calls me a drug addict again. I ask him what it is he thinks he is drinking?.. He says "alcohol it's not even a drug".. Think again I say. Just cause its sanctioned and the government tells you it's alright to consume doesn't change the fact it's a drug. I try to tell him about the origins of pot and the movie the union and how much it explains about the different people in power not wanting it sanctioned. To Wich he looks at me and says "your Fu**ed".. I wasn't even going to attempt to tell him about something so wild and out there as the spirit molecule.

You just can't get through to some people, they are far to narrow minded to even listen. These are the people that are together, ruining the world today. Blindly following what society tells them to be accepted. I try to avoid right and wrong arguments at all cost but they come up from time to time. I try to always see why the person thinks they are right and it usually is because society has taught them that they are right.. You have to be careful who you discuss entheogens to, I have lost friendships over little things like that simply because they are the blind leading the blind. They don't want to wake up, they would rather just put the blinders on and march on through another socially acceptable day and be happy with it.. The worst part is most alcoholics will get offended if you don't drink with them. Try and sit through a party with friends drinking and not get pressured into drinking with them. They try to make you feel like sh*t because you have to leave or have to drive home and don't want to drink or stay and get drunk with them. It makes me sick sometimes and I just don't even bother associating myself with these people anymore.. Sorry I'm ranting I'll stop now hahaha..

ranting is good, and i enjoy reading rants, dont apologise, thanks for your comment and i have been through many similar experience and completely agree with you.

The problem with having arguments like this is that you could come up with the single handed most convincing argument ever woven on the subject, and that quite frankly will never be enough for some. Even going out and doing all the reading afterward may turn up with nill. The only thing that can change a person's mind most of the time in scenarios such as this is direct experience. You can argue up and down, but until someone has experienced it for itself, and experienced it effectively, they are unlikely to change their minds any time soon. You can explain away just how wrong they are, but they'll just keep bouncing from point to point as you prove each previous one wrong until eventually they're back defending the same points with the identical arguments and it becomes a never ending loop of ignorance. Drunks are even worse cause they are only interested in what they have to say about the topic for conversation, and aren't even usually paying close attention to what you're saying anyway.

yeah that is very true.

this guy i wouldn't call a drunk, well i dont really know, he probably drinks at least once a week in a social context most weeks, like most people it seems.

this guy is a bit more open minded than your typical ignorant robot or what ever you wanna call it.

he's a nice guy, he's even pro-choice, he's half dutch which also might explain some of his liberalism.. but yeah he's a very nice and open minded guy, it's just that unless you're a person who actually knows things about "drugs" and not just what society tells you, than no matter how open minded you are you're still pretty blind.

i used to be blind, i also used to be drunk...