Hello!

I have been a user of tobacco for around 9 years, which seems like a much longer time than I realized when I write it out. I've used it in basically all commercially available forms (cigarettes, cigars, dip, pipe tobacco, chewing tobacco, snus, patches, and powder snuff!) and feel as though it is really starting to hurt me. I have a nagging hack and sometimes my lungs itch. During my first CWE jurema experience I went through getting cancer and saw the doctor tell my weeping mother and wife. It was chilling and moving and yet the very next day I was smoking again.

So what's the point? I feel as though getting to know tobacco in its true colors, seeing it's form and being leveled b it's hammer will help me kick this impostor, white mans tobacco. I would like to use it as an admixtures to ayahuasca.
, though of course fear doing so and it will probably take years and the direction of someone more experienced in the art.

I don't know, this sortof became a ramble, but does any have experience with tobacco in this way? Are there any users of Mapacho here, alone or as an admixture? Or has anyone been so daring as to try an oral dose of N. Tabacum? I've known one person, but he was kindof a wingnut, enjoying the mix of heroin and antihistamines.

Yeah I love mapacho I just smoked some. Mapacho is nicotiana rustica leaves that have been boiled down to a resiny paste and then more leaves are dipped in this paste, rolled, and dried. I used to make a sun tea for ~3 days with a small handfull of mapacho in a water bottle. It gets stronger by the day so you just steep however long you want. I used to slip this back up my nose with a seashell before, during, and after certain entheogens, aya and pedro specifically. It will put you down into a whirling trance pretty quick, and the harmalas synergize wonderfully with other entheogens. Many people get nauseous and purge. All depends on your dose. Start off small and get to know what it's like so you can judge how much you want.

This is called a singado. I want to make a singado with DMT HCl in it. I might do this soon, actually. I started a thread I believe in this subforum "Mapacho singado and DMT HCl" if I can recall correctly. https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=25835
Taken this way it is anti parasitic and incredibly entrancing to say the least.

If your lungs are itching you may want to take a break from smoking. This started to happen to me after I would smoke spliffs around twelve times a day. It got real rough, so I stopped for a long time. I was smoking mapacho mostly but also a lot of that american spirit crap. I still like mapacho smoked, especially in these dark times, I rub leaves off on hash oil and smoke it in a pipe for a meditative relaxation. The harmalas are very noticeable apart from the obvious nicotine buzz. The plant contains harmine, harmaline, and tetrahydroharmine among other things. There is a clarity that occurs. Oh the little death that I exhale is a window to what has died.

When I was smoking DMT ~ 2 years ago I would get physical hallucinations that there was something stabbing my lungs. Always in the same spot. It hurt so bad that i couldn't breathe....so I would stop breathing....and I would die....and I would go through all the various possibilities of cancer and all that like you are describing.

Interesting reality we live in. If you have room to garden in the spring n. rustica grows like a weed in the shade.

Nicotiana rustica is the "entheogen" tobacco:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotiana_rustica

Mapacho=very powerful, having several or many times the nicotine content of "white man tobacco" (plus an assortment of beta-carbolines hinted at above), and you could use that to quit the "white man tobacco": you could use it, say in snuff form (just take a knife and chop pieces off a mapacho log, it shreds quite easily when dry), use that to satisfy any cravings for nicotine, then wean yourself off of it. Ever heard of Nu Nu?

Thanks guys!

I have been trying to taper my tobacco intake to ween myself from nicotine, some days I smoke 4 or less cigarettes, however today I have already smoked two and it's just now 10 o clock! Has anyone successfully tapered from nicotine, or is it recommended to just try cold turkey?

And no, I've never heard of nu-nu?

My goal is not necessarily to "quit tobacco", just to be healthy and I have always thought there was more to tobacco's death-magic than just physical dismemberment!

NuNu is a snuff that is a combination of mapacho and a species of theobroma tree. It is said to be hallucinogenic sometimes.

Mapacho is not the entheogenic tobacco where as the other is jusst white mans tobacco. Both species are used by native peoples, mapacho is just used in south america and tobaccum is used by peoples of north america. I dont understand the idea that you can quit tobaccum with rustica..rustica contains MORE nicotine so how does that make sense? you are still taking alot of nicotine. If you want to quit then taper off or just go cold turkey. Rustica is nice becasue it is most likely organic and free from all the shit in other tobacco.

I like to smoke rustica occasionally..but dont fool yourself into thinking just smoking rustica will help you break a nicotine addiction. It is probly healthier to use as you need less plant material and is not adulterated..but you are still going to have to ween yourself off of it.

have you looked into lobelia? Lobelia contains nicotine analogues that hit the same receptors but does not cause the same physical addiction. It is easy to grow and I think you can find it at most nurseries and stuff. Alot of people smoke lobelia when trying to get off nicotine.

Mr. Foilbot,

I would suggest stopping cold turkey for around 6 months, and then getting back into using it occasionally in ceremony. Of course, please do what feels right for your own body and mind.

+

I love growing rustica and using it ceremonially, most of my life I smoked N. tabacum and through a few changing experiences with rustica and psychedelics it has totally altered my views and use of the plant. I went from smoking a pack or two a day of nasty cigarettes(shouldn't even be called tobacco) to just using rustica perhaps once every month or two; it's my understanding as well if you manage to use the plant in such a sparing manner it is actually quite beneficial and defiantly adds depth and lucidity to psychoactives.

Careful though, it's quite a potent smoke; nausea and purging is very possible like House mentions.

I wasn't really thinking that using the more potent rustica would on it's own defeat my nicotine addiction, of course that is an absurd thought. I am more saying that perhaps getting to know Mapacho in it's full visionary clothing would help me mentally and spiritually with kicking cigarettes. Also, I am aware than N. tabaccum was/is used in a similar manner and was widely cultivated by the indigenous people's of north America. By why'd mans tobacco I mean that produced by people in large-scale capitalist-industrial agriculture, and which is filled with poisonous additives!

Thank you for the heads up about lobelia, that will be something to look into for sure!

Yeah, the amount of poisonous and addictive additives in store cigarettes is ridiculous, about 700 chemicals. You can find the list on wikipedia. And most smokers have no clue... I am sure without all this crap they would be less addictive. Well, of course plain nicotine is also addictive.

Most all of the toxicity and carcinogenic effects from cigarettes comes from the Potassium based fertilizers used on the tobacco. Igniting these fertilizers creates free-radical radioactive particles that gather in regions in the lungs; this is what causes the highest cases of cancer. The additives about 700+ in numbers isn't helping the case but these are more for addiction and flavoring. Smoking tobacco itself is compared to smoking mint by one doctor, it's a no brainer smoking plants isn't the best for the lungs but it's also a no brainer to realize the difference between smoking radioactive pesticides and straight tobacco leaves.

Erowid and a few others comment on this, one guy uses a black light on some Marlboros to show the Potassium content in a cigarette.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptFwUr7B9rA - Excuse the guys but it's a great video.

http://www.erowid.org/pl...acco/tobacco_info1.shtml

http://www.naturalnews.c..._Big_Pharma_Tobacco.html

..the one time i met Christian Rastch he had recently spent a few weeks studying shamanic tobacco usage in South America, which included trying some of the preparations..the tobacco is cured for weeks until it becomes a 'charas' or hash-like black putty..up to three inhalations from a pipe are taken, strict diets are recommended for tobacco shamans (who are usually jaguar shamans)
..one toke will, in most novices, produce tremor, sweating, and purging (often both ends)
..a second toke, for Rastch, led, after previous symptoms, to temporary loss of consciousness and then vivid dream-like hallucinations including flight as a bird, which lasted around 20 minutes..
..only usually shamans can handle a third toke, which allows them to shapeshift, remote view the location of stolen objects, judge if someone is being truthful, and other shamanic feats..it is considered by many the most powerful of the plant teachers..they also drink the juice, in what was thought lethal amounts, and snort juice through nostrils..

..experiments by i and friends years back showed that smoking tobacco during ayahuasca slightly increased visions, whereas cannabis for the majority slightly diminished or 'clouded' visions..
..smoking tobacco has been found to cause some MAO-A and B inhibition [Fowler et al 1996], and the smoke contains small amounts of harman and norharman...
Nicotiana rustica (the more shamanic variety than tabacum) contains some slightly different alkaloids, and
i found it a lot more relaxing and trance-inducing than regular tobacco..less needed, could be good to change species..

..for quitting tobacco, smoking passionflower is recommended for withdrawls, and, yeah, lobelia..
i find cocoa and nicotine incompatible, so eating lots of chocolate helps to cut back smoking,
homegrown tobacco seems to be less habit-forming than commercial, incl. 'no-addidtive' brands..
.

Do the "non-additive" kind contain the potassium based fertilizers? Or does it have to be completely organic?

@nen888: wow thank you, that information is particularly what I was looking for! That must have been an amazing meeting conversation to be a part of.

And I think they're pesticide-free. Other than the nicotine of course!

Yeah you need to buy organic if you want no pesticides; no-additives is just no extra flavors. Buying organic will get you neither pesticides nor additives. IMO the way to go.

And (most likely) addictive chemicals and other poisons:

http://en.wikipedia.org/..._additives_in_cigarettes

It's impossible that there would be 600 flavoring additives.

Good call UNTM. It's just a shame, the one store that used to sell the organic kind doesn't carry it anymore. :-( Maybe this just means it is time for me to shell out the dough to try some rustica.

AluminiumFoilRobots wrote:

hey, i'm glad u found the info. handy, it was certainly an entertaining and fascinating series of stories freshly experienced..

here is a bit more info on the topic:

Tobacco and Shamanism in South America - summary
also see book "Tobacco and Shamanism in South America" Johannes Wilbert (1989)

"Suggestive Halluncinogenic Properties of Tobacco" Oscar Jangier - Medical Anthropology (1973)
.