But this is the effect of people, not alcohol. It is people who, in the end of the day, decide to drink irresponsibly albeit knowing the potential dangers of alcohol.

I also feel awkward whenever in an alcohol-related discussion weed is also thrown in the mix as its antithesis (be it in its effects, legal status and social consequences). I don't know how you can judge the effects of a drug by comparing it to the effects of another drug! Each drug is different and requires it own special discussion on its use, be it dmt, alcohol, datura, whatever. In the end of the day alcohol bashing is not only unfair to those who enjoy alcohol, but also a my-drug-is-better-than-your-drug kind of dick approach to the situation.

To the OP: if you think that the alcohol evokes suicidal thoughts, maybe you should look further into it. Just as after a psychedelic trip we take our time to think what the things revealed to the mind might mean, in a similar way after a alcohol trip one may sit and see whether such revelations have any meaning at all instead of writing them off as "Bah! that's just the alcohol messing with my head!" In a same way, if you become violent and agitated with alcohol this also means something about you. Definitely worth contemplating further.

This is the effects of people on alcohol!

Sure but you can say that about any drug like heroin, ether, cocaine, methamphetamine etc..
You cant avoid the reality of the situation when some substances are just more toxic and are abused much more than other substances. Ive watched it my whole life..I know what alcohol is like compared to other substances..and you damn well can compare it to other things and gain a general overview as to what is more dangerous. I have seen the violence and anger, along with the negative health effects that come from alcohol abuse my entire life. It has seriousily fucked up certain aspects of my families life. Of course alot of people do use it in a different way..but you cant avoid the fact that alcohol is the most abused of the substances present in our society.

Sure alcohol is really abused and a mediator of pretty much all sort of bad situations, but I really do not think it is fair to point the finger on alcohol per se. The causes of alcohol abuse are many, but since humans are the perpetrators, I'd first point the finger to them. Or, in other words, I do not believe that if suddenly alcohol was eradicated the problems from its abuse would also leave. Alcohol abuse is a consequence of a problem (that yes, leads to other pretty bad unarguably consequences) rather than the real problem here.

Infundibulum wrote:
That is strange; I find alcohol to be one of the most supreme entheogenic substances in my inventory. Of course there are alcohol-related horror stories around but this tells not much; You clearly need to know how to use it alcohol and of course, moderation is key (just as with everything of course!).

I'm curious,In what way supreme?

The characterisation as "supreme" is of course subjective. But nevertheless, supreme because it is easily obtainable, easily manufactured, great tasting, beneficial to health (especially in the form of good quality beer), one of the most ancient ones, legal in most of the world, with the ability to reach deep inside you, your emotions and thoughts, great tasting, leaving you refreshed the next day, diuretic, great for a night out and great for tripping alone, the list goes on...

Can you tell us what you are drinking? I do not understand how one could trip from alcohol? I read about people experiencing entheogenic effects from booze...but it's hard to imagine.

WHAT are you drinking?

Fine 100% agave tequila sipped, can be a relaxing pleasurable experience, and cAIPIRIhA tastes divine. There is nothing better than sipping these drinks on the comedown of shrooms. Spirits like this are stimulating and euphoric, wherea's beer can be tiring.

-I guess what makes alcohol problematical is usually due to drinking to excess, and especially daytime drinking which tends to leave me blue by eveningtime, so i'm wary of this. It has taken me many years to find my sweet spot, and it's all about being a responsable adult, as is making sure i don't allow it to depress me with hard exercise sessions.

One can get "trippy effects"( mild) from Absinthe ( containing Thujone from Artemisia sp.), used to be banned in Europe, but is now available again. The French impressionist painters like Van Gogh and Gaughin drank gallons of it.
Facinating array of folksy-artsy accessories can be used for preparation and drinking. check out . http://www.vertdabsinthe.com/

For me, my experiences with alcohol, were to say the least quite miserable. I drank all day everyday, and being so thoughts of suicide came naturally. I think alcohol made me to not care about life and not care whether I lived or died, not to mention I had some deep resentments built toward myself because of my actions while under the influence. It was not at all uncommon for me to hurt someones feelings and regret it to the point were I felt I would be better off dead. I think alcohol can be good for some people, but most anyone I know who abused it to the point I did also shares experiences of feeling suicidal as a result. It took me a long time to realize how much I had to live for, and despite the fact that surely the next life must be better than this, I still had to take care of my business here, I mean, I don't feel at all like I'm here for no reason. I haven't put any substances in my body for almost 10 months, I made a promise to my higher power and self that I would wait an entire year of substance free living before I experience a closeness to Entheogens again. I want to make sure I know my purpose in doing so. Though it has been a little bit difficult to wait I feel like I'm doing so for the right reasons. I will say this though, since I stopped drinking, the thought of suicide rarely even enters my mind and much less any sort of contemplation is a distant memory. I feel the one year mark when I have meditated and prayed on the right time to have these experiences again it will be that much more of a reminder why I have come this far.

In Canada it's almost like some sort of sick national pride. It's so ingrained into society. I'm looked at as a weirdo because I don't drink alcohol. As simple as that. And the way a lot of young people here drink is really revolting...go to a bar and drink as much as you can (or as much as you can be served) then leave and go to another bar to get more drinks...do this all night until you're so drunk you can't walk or string together a sentence. Wake up the next day feeling like you've been hit by a truck. Work all week and do it again next weekend. And this qualifies as fun...? And those that are too young to get into bars, they'll do the same binge drinking on the weekends, and brag about it at school on monday.


I'm also curious about that Beneficial to health, like a glass of red wine a day. Okay. Leaving you refreshed the next day...that one I can't agree with. Even in small amounts I don't see people being refreshed the next day like they might be with a mushroom trip or ayahuasca journey. Tripping alone, I can't agree with either, that usually leads to addictive behaviors with almost any drug (even psychedelics in some cases).

-We live and learn very slowly why the government allows us to drink alcohol and smoke cigarettes.

Not promoting alc. but there's more to than meets the eye ( or head!)
http://www.biopsychiatry.com/alcgood.htm

when did i write that quoted text?

edit: directed at arcanum's post

yeah this is what it's like here as well.

like i said in my first post, i think alcohol consumption is one of the most socially accepted activities a person can do in western societies, i guess some eastern as well (russia is eastern right?). if not the number 1 socially accepted activity, then at least in the top 3...

such a crazy world.

Sorry, you didn't. It was Dioxipus. ( just my mistake in the way i deleted unwanted blocks of text)

no problem at all.

just wanted to avoid confusion