I've heard many people saying the Eggwhite/Gelatin tek has been reducing brew/extract potentcy/yield; like Jaguar shared:
Quote: At first he thought it was his imagination, but he somehow felt that removing too much tannins in fact decreased the potency of the brew.
What is the issue here?
daysonatrains' hypothesis (which I have seen posed by different people):
Quote:i could be totally wrong here, but i thought most of the dmt is bound to the plant tannins, would removing these tannins also be removing some of the dmt?
69ron, director of sound, and Q21Q21 seem to back him up on the DMT-tannate assertion.
How might this be discovered/proven as truth or fiction?
POSSIBLE MINOR IMPROVEMENTS: (Regarding the eggwhite wash itself)
I have read that a pre-cooked eggwhite "pancake" might be used to good effect also; I feel this might leave more goodies in the brew by not forming a big tannin ball possibly surrounding goodies.
I have also read that, besides following the tannin-removal teks closely,
squeezing the juice out of the eggwhite into the brew after tannin-removal; as well as
rinsing the eggwhite off briefly (
Would be best to use acidic water?) over the brew before discarding the eggwhite are good ideas to retain potentcy.
POSSIBLE MAJOR IMPROVEMENTS:
There is another, supposedly more selective tannin-removal method for MHRB tea that (it is claimed by the author) "removes most of the tannins without removing as much DMT as proteins like milk eggs gelatin...". :
Quote:
Mimosa has a lot a amphoteric tannins in it. Amphoteric means able to act as a weak base or acid depending on solution PH. Anyway, these tannins dissolve and are red in an acid and brown in a base. It just so happens that they have a very low solubility at PH 7 and precipitate out, especially when cold. This makes it possible to remove most of them while keeping most of the DMT you want. To remove them, thoroughly dissolve sodium carbonate (make by roasting baking soda at 400 deg F for 30 minutes in the oven) or straight baking soda in water. Now carefully add this sodium carbonate solution a few drops at a time until the mimosa tea becomes turbid and curdled looking, while stirring gently and allowing a minute for the ph to settle. It is recommended to do a couple filterings to remove the tannins if you don't have a vacuum filter. Slightly heating the turbid solution makes the tannins easier to filter out. It also helps to boil the solution down after filtering and re-adjust the PH. Once you have reached ph of 7, filtered all the tannins out you could, and boiled the extraction down to about a cup, place it in a cold fridge and it it sit for 24 hours. This will cause most of the remaining tannins to crash out. Pour off the liquid, filter out the remaining tannins, and boil it down further until it is a comfortably drinkable amount. You will still taste some tannins, but it will be like bitter, strong tea instead of tasting like you drank some kind of horrible poison. This method removes most of the tannins without removing as much DMT as proteins like milk eggs gelatin etc.
-"Gourmet MHRB Mimosa Ayahuasca for the masses."
Do tannin removals teks also remove DMT-tannate? If so, perhaps converting away from their -tannate form to another acid form before tannin removal?
Quote:Originally Posted by
whatchamacallit 
Basically when you soak the bark in water it has lots of tannins or tannic acid that will lower the pH . DMT is soluble in water when in a salt form, and since it's pKa is 8.68, at two points below this, or 6.68, 99% of the DMT should be in it's salt form as DMT tannate, or if other acids were used to acidify the water, such as vinegar, you'd have DMT acetate, hydrochloric acid, DMT HCl, etc.
For example, using a similar process as this excerpt from Q21Q21s' tek to convert the DMT before brewing, removing tannins then reducing:Quote:This step utilizes the vinegar (acetic acid) to change the DMT-tannate molecules contained in the MHRB into DMT-acetate and in the process dissolve them into the surrounding vinegar. The PH of the dilute vinegar is ~2.5 so the mix will probably be around that but checking the PH shouldn't be necessary
Note 1:this step does not need to be too "exact"
Step 1: Take 30g-250g powdered MHRB and place in your container. (For first-timers 30g-50g is recommended)
Step 2: Add vinegar to the bark and stir until the bark starts forming clumps. Add enough so most of the bark is wet, red and clumpy.
Step 3: Then slowly and while stirring add near-boiling tap water. Add and stir until it is wet enough to flow when you tip the container to one side or the other. The bark will absorb some of the water over the first few minutes, add more warm/hot water to get it wet enough again as needed (It will be about: 100ml vinegar and 100ml near-boiling water for 100g MHRB)
Step 4: Stir several times as the bark is let to sit for 20-40 minutes. (Longer won't hurt though) YOU DO NOT NEED TO STIR CONSTANTLY, ONLY PERIODICALLY
So; to maintian potentcy: After converting from tannate form, continue by brewing as usual, straining, and removing tannins before reducing to final amount (and possibly decanting and re-filtering)? Sounds easy enough; altho I thought I read someone saying DMT-tannate may not be converted to other acid forms unless those acids are stronger than tannic acid... Citric acid, Vinegar, and HCl have been specifically mentioned as beeing able to accomplish this tannate conversion.:Quote:You'd likely need to acidify your bark first with a stronger acid than tannic acid... Bark high in tannins pretty much always has alkaloids present as tannate salts. By adding citric acid or vinegar first, you convert the DMT tannate into DMT citrate or DMT acetate.
-69rondirector of sound expands:
Quote:i think most of it is in the form of a tannic salt, with tannic acid found naturally in the bark, or it could be in the form of an Oxalate ad there is a little bit of oxalic acid present in the bark too. using a stronger acid will reduce the DMT to that acid (just like your stomach acid converts DMT fumarate to DMT HCL) rather than the natural form making it extractable (tannates and oxalates are only mildly soluable in water).
One final note; another possible reason for potentcy reduction:
Quote:This textbook states that egg whites have a Ph of 8
I have read some discussions in which some state that the egg white tek reduces potency, while others state that it does not affect potency. I was thinking that this could, at least partly, help to explain the reason for that. My thoughts were that if one is brewing mimosa in a liquid that is not of low enough Ph (6.5 for example), then this slight alkalinity of the egg white may be enough to basify some of the DMT in the brew, thus attaching it to the egg whites which are being discarded.
I am no chemist, this is just my amateur analysis, but I think from now on if I am using the egg white tek, I will be sure to make my brewing liquid substantially more acidic than I would if I were not using the egg white tek.
- Wave Rider Any ideas as to what might be best?
I appreciate any and all input.
Blessings.
All readable matter in the above post is ficticious.
Any similarities to real life are purely coincidental.
Without prejudice.