G'day everyone,

So SWIM has 900g of powderized San Pedro on its way direct from the source in Peru, and is now trying to organize his intended extraction procedure. SWIM has read several different teks and followed numerous threads on the forums here, but is yet to find a general consensus on the best ratio of reagents to use when basing with caustic soda (NaOH), pulling with limonene, and then salting with vinegar (5% acetic acid solution)....

I think the closest tek i've come across is '69ron's D-Limonene Mescaline Extraction', however here calcium hydroxide is used in place of sodium hydroxide. SWIM can't seem to get a hold of calcium hydroxide and is not concerned about using sodium hydroxide instead (he is confident that he can use this reagent safely....).
So, should SWIM use an equimolar quantity of sodium hydroxide to that which is used for calcium hydroxide in 69ron's tek? Is there another standard that anyone can suggest?

SWIM's planned tek is this;
- add vinegar to cactus powder (somewhere between 200 - 400g of powder will be extracted)
- perform a defat with limonene and discard
- basify the cactus solution with NaOH
- perform pull with limonene (leave to sit for 2 hours with intermittent agitation)
- seperate limonene from cactus solution and then salt with vinegar
- seperate vinegar from limonene (then repeat salting/separation process at least once) and then evap the crude mescaline acetate solution
- perform additional pulls with the retrieved limonene (at least 3 more, two of which being left overnight, perhaps a final 24 hour pull depending on yield from the second o'night pull).
- combine crude mescaline acetate yields, and if considered necessary clean with cold, dry acetone

Ok, so what SWIM would really appreciate are any suggestions you have as to the ratios (per 100g of cactus powder) for;
- volume of vinegar initially added to powder (to acidify for defatting)
- mass of NaOH used to basify the solution for pulling
- volume of limonene used to pull

What strikes me as odd about '69ron's D-Limonene Mescaline Extraction' tek, is the seemingly low ratio of water used to create the cactus solution (3mL for every g of powder), and the seeming very high ratio of limone to water when pulling (1mL of limonene for every 1mL of water added).
Won't this create a very viscous mess, that resembles more a cactus paste then a solution? Won't this make things unnecessarily messy and difficult to work with? Why not add a greater amount of water and create a solution, rather than a viscous jelly?

Is it because there is a concern that mescaline freebase is too soluble in water and will not be extracted by the limonene? Surely if the solution is highly basic this won't be a problem, right?


Anyway, if these questions have been answered elsewhere I apologize for wasting the community's time and would really appreciate a link to such info (I have attempted to search...). If not, I'd really appreciate any advice from those who have completed such a process before.

Cheers

no thoughts?....

What about just the amount of NaOH per 100g of powder?....

Can anyone recommend a trusted quantity if sticking to the 3mL of water per 1g of powder approach?...

Cheers

Not exactly answering your questions but I do have some suggestions.

Do yourself a favor and use KOH instead of Lye. IME (few failed attempts, and a couple good ones) KOH is the best for cacti. For some reason it works much better than Lye and reduces chance of emulsion. Don't be so concerned with how much just use a lot. I don't think it's that easy to overdue it.

Limonene is expensive, and I don't think I'd ever defat with it. It's not really necessary, and is a waste of precious solvent. Plus I think defatting with cacti is tricky you end up with more than 2 layers.. Not sure though.

If I was in your shoes I'd skip the vinegar and go with HCL or Sulphuric acid. Much easier to clean from what I've read here. Never tried it myself.

With powder I have had the best results with an STB. https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=22831 there is some nice and easy instructions half way down the page for a STB on powder. Follow it and you are sure to be successful. On that note I have done it and gotten very nice results though if I were to do it again with more than 100 grams of cacti, which I plan to, then I would use the pressure cooker and vinegar step first. Otherwise it will take a few days, a lot of shaking a heavy jug, and a lot of pulls.

Also one more thing, I used https://www.dmt-nexus.me...spx?g=posts&m=253273 to crystalize. I think out of all the cacti teks out there these two in combination are my favorite for ease and purity.

Mix cactus powder with lye tO homogenous blend, add water to make a bass paste,add d limo, sep salt with dilute hcl, clean with dry acetone

thanks very much landfishd.

I would go for KOH if it weren't for the fact that I currently have NaOH in my possession, and that KOH may be difficult for me to obtain.

Since posting this thread I've read the first thread you suggested. Like yourself, I planned to do a STB if working with 100g or less. However, I think for my first attempt I will work with 1/4 of my material (225g), and will perform at least a single PC'ing before proceeding.

Thanks for the link regarding crystalisation as well, I'll look into it. I'm kind of keen to stick to salting with acetic acid (despite the fact it results in a crude material of lower purity), because of the comments I've read regarding its decreased absorption time.

Thanks!

Ipuma Ayar - "Mix cactus powder with lye tO homogenous blend". Do you mean mix cactus powder to lie in a 1:1 dry-mass ratio?... Not the best way of describing this if so, I'm still kinda confused as to what you mean. Thanks anyway though.