Hello! It's my first time posting and I'm glad to start working myself into this network of brilliant people. I'll write a post with a little more about me later. I think we'll get along quite well. For now I have a question.

Although theoretically impossible to OD on smoked DMT as you will be unable to smoke more long before even of a fraction of the possible LD50 would be inhaled. With an MAOI and orally consumed DMT though, you can chemically dose yourself to much higher levels. I went through a fantastically intense pharma+mimosahuasca and half way in smoked DMTsalts experience.(I'm working on an experience report. It's detailed ) I want to go deeper. I recognize this isn't the standard practice, and many of you would caution me against it, but I know what I seek, and I know what I am doing.

Is it possible to dose an unsafe level of DMT through pharmahuasca or any ayahuasca analogue? I'm talking about getting levels of 600mg+ of active DMT or more. I want to explore the boundaries of the highest dose pharmahuasca trips. I want it to be where I tell people the amount I took and they question how I am alive or sane, type of doses. Not for those reasons, but I have mine for going there. All I want to know is whether or not it is physically safe. Would it be possible to induce a heart attack from too much? Is there any receptor or enzyme that will break if drowned in DMT? What would happen if I took 300mg of an MAOI and then 1000mg of DMT?

I know I sound like a cocky fool, but I am simply looking for information and any journey to such ridiculous levels would be done with care, precision, caution, respect, and baby steps.

You will simply pass out. I will be a complete waste.

BTW What you seek can be found with much MUCH lower doses. DMT is only a tool. The states you seek are within the mind.

Peace

why dont you just up the dose of harmalas? harmalas produce by themselves full on OBE's at a certain dose..upping the dose of harmalas will take you deeper.

First of all, there's no reason to smoke a DMT-salt. Simply smoke the freebase and don't over-complicate things. I'm curious as to how you think will benefit from smoking a DMT-salt.

It is possible to overdose on oral DMT: yes, but how much that is I forget. There's no reason to take 600-1000mg DMT orally (or otherwise) and the deep states that you describe that you wish to be thrust into can easily be accomplished with much less DMT. 600-1000mg is bordering on black-out and unsafe.

Calling them salts was probably a mistake. It was a DMT form I smoked. I guess it was freebase, but I don't know exactly. I'm not familiar with crystalline drugs.

I will read more on how to control and guide my experiences to reach where I seek, thank you for your input. I will still be using fairly large doses, but I will tailor them away from excess.

Work you way up cautiously. I doubt you will get to doses that high before you start blacking out and not remembering anything. At some point you might not want to remember. Do not take it lightly.

I think the LD50 in rats is equivalent to several grams for an average-sized person.

DMT doesn’t work the way you seem to think it does. There isn’t an ever-increasing transcendence directly proportional to dose size.

Here’s how vaporized doses work for me (with pre-dosed sublingual harmalas) :

-----Less than 10mg: slight physical alteration, but not much more.

-----10mg – 20mg: noticeable physical effects, slight visual effects.

-----21mg – 23mg: moderate visuals, near breakthrough.

-----24mg – 25mg: Strong visuals, almost always a breakthrough.

-----26mg – 30mg: Very strong visuals, deep fully immersive 3D breakthrough, often with an intense spiritual/emotional message. A few of these were definitely ++++ Shulgin “transcendent” experiences.

-----Greater than 30mg: Honestly, with the GVG I’ve never gone higher than 30mg. There’s simply no need. Once you reach a certain optimum level, adding more detracts from the experience. I have had higher doses (pre-GVG) that led to blackouts: smoke, look at clock, close eyes, open eyes, look at clock and see that 15 minutes have passed.

For aya/pharma, the amounts are different but the general idea is the same. (And the amount of caapi seems to play a much bigger role regarding how far you go than the amount of DMT.)

Think of it like listening to your favorite music. At too low a volume, you have to strain just to hear it, and there are many nuances that you can’t hear at all. At too high a volume, the sound can become painful and very unpleasant. There’s an optimum range for listening.

The same is true with DMT. There is an optimum dose range. Go below or above that range, and you’ll be disappointed.

I almost feel silly asking this, but would you say if rue is being substituted for caapi that it likewise would play a much bigger role regarding how far you go in an oral DMT experience. I've always used 3.5-4g syrian rue, but for some reason it just never occurred to me to up the syrian rue dose. I always for some reason just figured on settling for what would be guaranteed MAO inhibition without raising the MAOI level too high for nausea sake.

I’m not experienced enough with aya to answer – I use caapi extracted alkaloids for my pharma. But my guess is that more rue equals a deeper experience to a point (you also have to take increasing nausea into account).

It doesn't really sound like you're being honest about your motives and attitude. If that's the case, I hope DMT does hand you your ass on a fractal platter. (as long as you don't die)

But even if you do come back, is it worth the risk of permanent psychological damage? Ego destruction is a real possibility, and if you're not a shaman/healer, or under the guidance of one, you could be in a lot of trouble.

I think you sound like an imbecile, personally, but good luck with whatever you want to do.

They'd love you over at The Shroomery. Why don't you go seek counsel there?

"I want it to be where I tell people the amount I took and they question how I am alive or sane, type of doses."

Grow up before you seriously loose your head on this stuff.

I would once again like to clear up that sentence. I am in absolutely no way looking for praise or approval for doing strong doses for the sake of it. I am not seeking fame for doing a DMT amount never done before. I do not seek such things.

What I was trying to convey was the concept of the depth I am trying to reach. Those more experienced have been informing me in this thread that excessive doses are not necessary to reach the place that I seek. I am grateful for this guidance and will tailor my exploration kindly. I was only trying to express the depth I am wishing to attain.



I think you have misunderstood my intentions and what I seek. Thank you for your well wishes though.
The reason I came here as opposed to another forum was because I saw there was excellent knowledge and wisdom into these experiences on this forum. A lot of which I know that I do not yet posses. I came here to seek council and learn from those who can share. I came to learn, be guided, share, and reach a point where I can give back. That is why I am here.

You are far from a cocky fool,

Can you tell me what you wish, or think you will achieve by taking such a high dose? If you have read the attitude page you know the nexus is no pissing contest.

No one will view highly of you just because you take a stupidly large dose of a psychedelic drug, its a lose lose, lose situation.
At a dose that high you will just black out and wake up the next day in a pool of your own vomit, (Ive had first hand experience with that one.) gaining nothing from the experience, losing DMT, and have others look at you like an idiot.
They would definitely love you at the shroomery, they have more of a childish, pissing contest like attitude.

If your goal is to explore the furthest boundaries of a pharmahuasca experience, the answer is most CERTAINLY not the dose, anyone here can tell you that. To explore the furthest depths you simply must keep exploring, at high dosages, (Try 300-400mg a few times and see if you really as ballzy as you think you are.)

Another option for exploring the world of DMT, is under the influence of a dissociative, this has led me to the deepest darkest depths of the inexplicable, ineffable to explain.

" I recognize this isn't the standard practice, and many of you would caution me against it, but I know what I seek, and I know what I am doing. "

I have no standards, many would look upon me as a psychotic freak, even many here at the nexus.
We caution you against it to save you the trouble, many have tried what you seek, and all come back the the same experience. Black out. no offense, but really, you don't know what you seek, and you don't know what you are doing.

seriously.. "Is there any receptor or enzyme that will break if drowned in DMT?" Are you kidding me?

By all means, do what you need to do, just please use your brain, research the internet, you can find information on this everywhere, read a few reports on high dose oral DMT, see if its REALLY what you seek...


Youll find what you seek, you'll realize that it has nothing to do with physical masses.


edit: I apologize if this comes off as an angry rant, i read your above post and it looks like your eager to learn and take advice, That is good and intelligent attitude.

"I was only trying to express the depth I am wishing to attain."

That is good, I now understand that, and there are many ways to reach what you are looking for... but I will repeat, you cannot reach that by simply eating a gram of DMT.
There are ways to reach what you seek. And you have no idea just what is in store.

I have read a decent bit. I know I need to read more. I know a fair amount of what I am doing, but I also know that I have a lot to learn still. More so I have a lot to experience first hand and truly KNOW. I have experienced some, but I have much more dues to pay before I earn my ranks. Thank you for your advice and reassurance. I will search and gain from this forum the guidance to achieve the rest of what I am looking for, the right way and the wise way.

Also, some of the questions I posed I already have answered. I just like hearing other peoples answers too.

I have never heard of anyone smoking the salt, until a friend described a recent trip on some spice(unknown to him) that was indeed fumarate. he and another buddy piled 'heaps" of dark fumarate into a bong and smoked LOTS thinking it was normal spice. his description of the 30+/_ minute trip was amazing. i know that vaped spice has never lasted this long for me, although i have never timed my voyages with closed eyes. they "seem" to last 5-7 minutes, but unconfirmed.



i for one did not like high dose purified rue harmalas. body load, and sedation. the hallucinations were great, but recovery took some hours (uncomfortable).

have not gone over 250 with caapi, and it has been nice.

The kind of depth you are trying to attain is something that doesn’t have a simple recipe. I like Shulgin’s rating scale and his description of a +4 experience:

Notice he uses the word “rare”. And he says that it “is not necessarily repeatable with a subsequent ingestion of that same drug”. And read that last sentence carefully.

:idea:

My friend you are a gentleman and I scholar and I forever thank you for this excerpt you have shown me. Truly I am in your debt for the idea you just allowed me to complete.

Please understand I mean no boast with this, but the "participation mystique, a connectedness with both the interior and exterior universes" I have already experienced. I am writing an experience report, but alas being a poet and writer, although my recollections contain fantastic detail, they also come with the burden of length.

That excerpt puts into words, that I couldn't find, what it is that I am seeking. I am seeking the repetition. I am seeking the form/process/ritual that can be repeated and hopefully, hope I hope so strongly, can be shared with another. I have come to understand that part of my place is as a Shaman, first to myself, then to help others and spread healing. I do understand the immense nature of the task that I set myself to, and I agree with the thought of it perhaps leading to the ultimate revolution of the human experiment. I also have no expectations of ever completing said goal if it is not meant to be, but simply to devote my life to the process, so that even if I am not the link of the chain which succeeds, that I may strengthen it so that another may.

What I seek is vast and difficult, but I know that the wise souls here will provide me with great assistance. I love all of you already and I look forward to the great things that will be dealt with on this forum.

I can understand what you are saying and what realms you want to go to. Some people will call it insane and others will call it travelling beyond the boundaries, whatever way you want to call it just dont ever get cocky with dmt.

I had a friend years ago who used to swallow 10-15 strong acid blotters when i was tripping out my nut on one, i could never understand how he could do it but of course now i do.

Just be prepared for some harsh lessons to be taught along the way. Peace.