I have never used a psychedelic drug. I found this website via renting the PPV documentary "DMT the spirit molecule" which I found very intriguing. I am at a point in my life where many of the things that were important to me have fallen away. What remains is a desire for knowledge and improvement, a compassion for my fellow man with a desire to be of assistance, and a goal of transmitting only positive energy. I have read extensively on this web site. I have yet to understand how using DMT teaches anything of practical value. What am I missing? I have gleened from what I read that using DMT allows fantastically detailed visions, incurs a profound sense of being loved, being part of a bigger universe(s), and experiencing a removal of physical and ego boundaries. It seems to me that these things are intellectually accessable to a lesser degree via other avenues that seem to be less risky. I haven't read yet anything that I would find incentive enough to try it. Has anyone received revelations that assist in living here and now or only the sense that these exist? Without some type of enrichment of usable knowledge, the experience seems to me to just be another way to titillate our senses.

This is very difficult to answer. The whole thing about a psychedelic experience is that's it's deeply personal and many elements of a standard 'trip' are representations / archtypes / visual metaphors for issues in you're own psyche. With this being the case, it isn't possible for anyone here to tell you what practical knowledge you might extract from it. You're mileage could vary greatly.

Some common things that people (myself included) report (not all inclusive and these don't always happen to everyone, again your mileage may vary):
1. A deep connection to all things
2. A sense that something important was lost and forgotten
3. A revelation that you are more than you thought you were
4. The experience of another 'place' known as hyperspace to this community. Impossible to describe, you have to 'go there' to understand.
5. Experiencing a type of Non-Verbal Communcation (NVC) or instant download of information from somewhere or something
6. A deep sense of joy and appreciation of the beauty of being a living creature
7. A sense of loving responsiblity to the planet and those around you
8. Gaining a fresh perspective on personal habits and hang ups
9. Things begin to seem possible that our culture has told us were impossible; cultural programming begins to lessen

Having never had the experience yourself, it's impossible for anyone here to tell you the depth of meaning one may find in these altered states. I, to this day, swear on my life that psychedelics provided me with the salvation that belief in Jesus is supposed to offer Christians. I feel it, I feel saved, but it wasn't saved from a wrathful god, it was salvation from my self, from my bad habits and my wrong way of looking at things. I don't judge now. I'm a pacifist. I'm a vegetarian. I support equal rights across the board. Race, religion, politics, social class, these things mean nothing to me but they were oh-so important before my 'wake up' experience. I know what it means to be enlightened because of my psychedelic explorations. I know it, but I cannot describe this knowing to you or anyone else, you MUST have the experience to understand. This is a pre-requiste (sp?) to understanding the conversations here.

DMT the spirit molecule is a fantastic movie and it did an exceptionally good job (imo) or describing the mystery associated with the divine compound, however watching it through eyes untouched by the psychedelic universe means you're only half-getting what's being communicated.

It's getting to be an old analogy and I'm sick of using it, however it still applies: try to explain true love with words to someone who has never felt it and you will understand the difficulty psychonauts have in describing their experiences to others who have never 'been there'. And that's not to make us out to be in some special club or in some privelaged frame of reference from those who've never had the experience. Quite the contrary. In many circumstances, I can no longer fit into the accepted mold of society and this proved difficult in day-to-day relations. However, I would never go back to being the old way. Psychedelics have changed every part of me for the better, and I hope beyond hope that if you end up having the experience yourself that you will walk away with the same kind of understanding.

I concur with Tek.



If those things don't seem to be of practical value to you, psychedelics may not be for you. If you must see things in risk to reward ratios and net returns on investment, much of the value of entheogens might go over your head. They are by definition ineffable and transcendent.

One thing I can say is that entheogenic experiences generally inspire people to be more healthy and instill a powerful sense of ethics, without any threat of a wrathful deity or everlasting torment. Their ability to help one make connections that were not being made previously is functionally like increasing one's intelligence. Things that had confused in the past become clear.

Knowledge of self, understanding of one's psyche, and a much greater ability to understand what makes us truly happy (and thus achieve that lofty goal) are among the things that can come from psychedelic use. Considering the roundabout and tiresome methods most people go through to even hope at possibly finding happiness... that is some serious value IMHO. You could play the game, do what you are told, do well in school, get a high paying job, buy a nice car, score a trophy wife, buy a mansion on a hill, see a shrink 3 times a week after your massage with a happy ending... and still not achieve self knowledge or happiness.

So what is practical then?

I smoked a bowl of changa and closed my eyes. Before me was a pulsing, spinning, vibrating, ever shifting and luminescant geometric landscape. I had the intense feeling that I knew this place, I had always known this place, I had seen it so many times before. I wondered, will I remain here for the whole trip? Is this all I will see? I wasn't complaining, just curious

Immediately a small boy, around 10 years old maybe, appeared in front of me. He had short blonde hair. He didn't say anything. He just stood there in front of me, then he reached behind himself and opened a door. It was like a portal to another place, suspended in thin air, there was very bright sunshine streaming through the door, the brightest green grass I had ever seen, flowers and beautiful fruit trees. You could feel health and joy radiating from it. The room of geometrics around me became dark and gloomy in comparison, oppressive almost.

I simply sat there, watching this happen. It didn't seem to occur to me to actually go through the door. I heard a voice which seemed to be the boy's, it was distant and muffled, it seemed to be slow and arrived late. It was saying "you have been sitting in a dark room, look how bright it is outside".

After a moment or two, a woman appeared on the other side of the door, I couldn't see her face, she wore a long apron. She leaned forward with her right hand out from the side of my face, she moved it around and then held my cheek in her palm for a while. A very comforting feeling.

The woman, child and the door the began to slide upwards, above me, they moved up over my head and went behind me. The vision was replaced with a spinning geometric orb in front of me. I was sitting in front of a sofa, using it for back support and a female presence sat down on her knees on the chair, placed both of her hands on my shoulders and remained there until my trip ended.


Okay. I'm 25, almost 26, I've lived alone since I was about 19, I've not had a girlfriend, I've had very few friends, I speak to very little of my family, I very rarely go out and I'm not very social. I pretty much just sit around and smoke weed really. Not very pretty but there you go.

My life has been a dark room for a long time. Oh look it's nice outside

Seeker57,

-You have some great responses from the above already. I'd like to also say that the kinda understanding that psychadelics provide can simply not be attained in normal states of consciousness, and that trying to "think them out", is impossible because these are the insights of "non thinking" states. Thinking or analizing actually takes you FAR AWAY from these states. You may be best to stick to perhaps looking for answers in dreams or when taking a shower -(or other non thinking states).. if you "don't want to risk it??"

-just my 1 centavo of theory..

I think the thing of greatest practical value DMT will teach you is the unimportance and insignificance of things of practical value.

^ This

The impression comes on strong that most things we humans think is practical and important are trite and insignificant.

If your goal is to learn about yourself, there are innumerable avenues to take... but there is no "Magic Pill". Psychedelics can show you many things, but they only show you. Take your average raver kid... many have taken hundreds of doses to see pretty colors and feel new sensations, and have not "gained" anything for it. They have no great insight, they have learned little from their trips.

Psychedelics show you things. They take the most obscure, mysterious, strange and amazing parts of our mind and our world, dress them up in technicolor and place them in front of us to see in new ways. Most of these things are completely incomprehensible, they will hit your mind and splash away like water off a duck's back; these things are too alien to be easily and immediately grasped.

If you wish to learn, you must put in a little bit of work. You can't just take a dose and expect a magical download of info... What you get is a trail of breadcrumbs that you can, if you are patient and honest with yourself, follow on your personal path to self-improvement. You must gather all of these little bits of wonder, and seek out the knowledge you need to put them together into ideas that you can use. Most of what you learn from psychedelics will be from the internet, books and like-minded people (and douchebags, on occasion)... not the drugs themselves. It's all you.

I have learned that questions illuminate the dark corners answers often obscure.

JBArk

What you are missing is the DMT experience. Whith that experience comes an understanding that only the experience can give you. I am sorry if this is too vauge for you. In the experience called life, we are often called up by our inner being to act out based on gut instinct or faith. This is something you cannot and should not force upon yourself. You have the calling? Take the step. Its that simple. The experience is all that everyone says it is and MORE! The MORE can only be taught to you by experiencing it.



You are missing the experience



I have benefitted immensly in that, I have brough back with me another veiw of our slice of the holograph and having that view or experience had tought me new ways to interact with others and my surrounding. I dont ingest DMT every day, however, DMT is with me in a positive way every day. My veiw of existence was very one dimensional before I entered hyperspace. I now have the ability to experience life from multipule points of view simultaniously. This allows be to see the world in a much more objective manner.




I dont know, you tell me. What are you missing?

I learned that DMT induces clarity of consciousness and communication in even the most closed up users.

I learned that all is reflection.

I learned I could make permanent accelerated evolutions to my being in every waking moment with hyperspatial trance.

I learned what I had been missing all along. I am literally exploding with love pandimensionally.


I learned EVERYTHING and NOTHING!

I learned that life is just a playground for us to grow up in. We are babies all our lives, and when we die, we are truly born.

Spice has helped me make changes in my life that I had been wanting to make for ages, but could not find the motivation.

I have seen the infinitessimal nature of existense.

I have been dazzled by non corporeal beings emitting pure unbridled love - I have learned from them and absorbed some of that love.

I have been scared shitless - this alone teaches you a lot about yourself.

I now know how being so ecstatic that you can only cry feels like.

I have learned to leave my ego at the door, and just BE.

If you wish, why not try it and see what all the fuss is about??

All valid and excellent comments there, Seeker57.

-There is only one way to get to those states of mind of which we are talking about, and i'll give you a clue: it's a 3 letter word!...

dimethyltryptamine is not a 3 letter word

At seeker57, welcome and thanks for your post. It brought a highly enjoyable thread, including several memorable quotes.

I think the main points are made. To me, it all comes down to this: you are what you do, the deeds shape the doer, and above all, the sum of your experiences constitutes your reality. Those experiences are your decision and responsibility, and no one should decide for you. We live in times of pharmacological inquisition. Don't let that keep you from exploring and learning. Live by yourself what does no harm to others. And nothing good comes without effort. If a psychedelic experience makes you stand by what you think now, good. If it doesn't, good. But you need the experience to find out and judge. As they say, pun intended, you cannot SWIM and guard your clothes.

Speaking of this thread generating memorable quotes, this is a fantastic description of our modern times!

It's not mine, it's by Jonathan Ott

I have not yet ventured into DMT hyperspace for myself. I also am not a trained philosopher, but I have done a lot of thinking about these issues, so here's my take on it:

When I was about 5 years old I approached my parents, sobbing in horror at the prospect of having to live forever in Heaven, because I couldn't come to grips with the concept of infinity. Call it "philosophical angst" if you will, but these issues of ultimate destiny have been taken up throughout the history of human thought, and I think your question seems to imply them. After all, "practical value" is a meaningless concept in the absence of some sort of theoretical framework for defining "value" itself. If mere titillation of the senses is an unworthy goal, what do you consider truly meaningful?

Obviously, I'm not about to try to answer that question for you! However, in my opinion, psychedelics have a potential role to play in approaching the question of human destiny. Now, The only psychedelic experience I have any real familiarity with is cannabinoid receptor agonism, which is said to be a far cry from the effects of the classical hallucinogens. (Although the one time I've tried mushrooms felt very philosophically comparable.) However, I have had some immersive visuals and perhaps a preliminary taste of ego death. In the cold light of mathematical reason, these haven't been revelatory experiences. My life hasn't radically changed, and I don't feel I've learned anything that remains qualitatively inaccessible to the uninitiated.

What I have learned is that some of the same conclusions philosophers and seers have been pointing us to throughout the centuries snap into sharper focus during a psychedelic episode. True, this may be the result of mere interference with the mind's sensory processing equipment, but the fact that greater minds and souls than mine have encountered the same patterns gives me reason to believe they may not be entirely illusory.

It's so hard to explain without sounding like a mystical fool! Like you, I want to be reasonable and justified in every risk I take, in both action and belief. I've just been forced to come to terms with the perception that objective calculus alone cannot ultimately satisfy my epistemological needs. Faith (or courage in spite of the uncertainties inherent to finite human existence) is unavoidable.

For me, the psychedelic experience has been a confirmation of the existentialist approach to reality, and my role in it as a participant in the Divine fullness of being. I feel more emboldened to resist the drive of ego-obsessed fear. I suppose it's ironic, but being forcibly shut into my own mind turned out to be a great reminder that reality is so much greater than silly ol' me!

Just wanted to say that this is the best forum of any sort that I've been a part of...