Is LSD considered an enthiogen since its kinda man made? Also has anybody have any troubles with lsd and drug tests. I only get tested once a month and sometimes less than that. I dought they test for any of the tryptamines, (for sure dmt and shrooms since i proved it months ago loL )

im pretty sure they cant test for lsd...i once knew a guy who got tested..and the only things he could take were acid and shrooms...he liked smoking weed..but had to settle for acid

Sweet. I think its great that the only drugs they don't test me for are the popular psychedelics

why do you get tested once a month?? i have never been tested before. and if they will - hahahahahaha.. - they will find things they have never heard of. they will be like: god damn!.. is that human blood?! it can't be! how can this person live?

VERY entheogenic in my experience

Lorax, its probation. I have to go once a month for a alcohol blow and drug screen, its funny they waste money on an alcohol blow since it would be pretty easy to just not dring the last few days before you go and drop again lol.

LSD is an entheogen. That mushrooms and DMT are much more entheogenic can not be a serious objection.
Imagine that it would be possible for something to be 10 times more entheogenic than DMT...(imagining this would probably be the ultimate brain exercise)..that would not be an objection for calling DMT entheogenic, would it?

Of course LSD is an entheogen. Probably the one of the top three entheogens. Some people fail to see the divineness of mushrooms and mescaline but I think LSD's entheogenic properties are a little more obvious. Just look at how LSD has changed our planet in a positive way. I think erowid.org does not list LSD under entheogens because it does not occur naturally. LSD was discovered by man but it was not invented by man. Molecules such as LSD are keys and our brain is the door. Our brains have been pre-programmed to intercept psychoactive molecules and read those molecules like a blue print. As Albert Hofmann once put it, our brain is like a television. Just like a t.v. picks up signals from the air and reads the signals to produce an image on the screen, our brains intercept molecules and produce a specific effect. Psychoactives are simply neurotransmitters that exist outside of the body.

Hahahahaha I'd like to see their faces when they get the results hahaha

But about the LSD tests. I think there's a special test for LSD. And it's very expensive so it's not done unless there's a strong suspicion that you used it. But that's just what I think I read millions of years ago. So take it with a grain of salt, but maybe someone here can confirm.

I don't think LSD can be tested for. At least not when the ride is over. When you're still under the influence of it it might be different.
I was tested on drugs once, when i was still in high school. I had done peyote a week before, so i was a bit nervous. But they didn't find anything. When it's not a mainstream chemical, it's probably not profitable making tests for them, that can go back longer then a week.
Or maybe the typical entheogens are just more difficult to test for.
i mean, mescaline is an amphetamine-like compound, and they still didn't detect it, while i'm sure they DID test for speed.

also they do not routinely look for lsd. its too difficult.

Lsd is no different than other tryptamines, it leaves the body through urine and becomes untestable within a few days. Additionally, your spinal fluid is refreshed several times a day.

i heard you can only test it within the trip, or hat day.. after you cant test for it.

LSD is extremely unstable and starts coming apart as soon as it enters your body. You may be able to detect traces of it for up to 24 hours after ingestion, but not much longer than that.



Look here: http://www.erowid.org/ch...cals/lsd/lsd_myth1.shtml

It's possible that LSD's effects are not actually caused by LSD but caused by one of its break down products. That would help explain why the effects peak after most of it is already gone and help explain why the effects of the same batch of LSD can vary from person to person and even for the same exact person taking the same dose on different days. If its actually one of the break down products that's active and not LSD itself, then how it breaks down in the body would effect the trip experienced buy the user. It actually helps to explain a lot.

Sometimes people experience "strychnine" like effects from the same batch of LSD that seemed to be “pure” when taken on a different day. If some break down products of LSD are responsible for the "strychnine" like effects and others are responsible for the positive effects, that could help explain this unusual aspect of LSD changing it's effects. It could all be about metabolism.

Long ago SWIM passed around some hits of acid from the same sheet of acid and some people felt "strychnine" like effects from it while others said the acid was extremely pure and pleasant. If break down products are responsible for the effects of LSD, how LSD breaks down in any given individual at any given time would likely vary. Given that hypothesis, it would make sense that some people’s metabolisms would break down the LSD differently, and might get "strychnine" like effects from it, while others with their different metabolisms might break down the LSD into compounds with more pleasant effects.

It makes a lot of sense to me. I’m willing to bet that it’s NOT LSD but it’s break down compounds that make you trip. Considering the fact that most of the LSD is gone before you even reach the peak effects, seems to indicate that it’s the break down products and not the LSD itself that are effective in making you trip.

Ron so what you said about lsd's by products that cause the effects got me thinkin what would happen if it was possible to aquire the by-products without injesting LSD and then administering that do you think that it could have any affects

I think the dosage amounts you would be dealing with if your dealing with the by products woud be impossibly small.

I was thinking the same thing.

But if the break down products are poorly lipid soluble (LSD is fantastically lipid soluble) then taking them orally or injecting them might do nothing at all. You may have to inject them directly into the brain for them to be effective.

LSD passes the blood brain barrier really easily because of its fantastic lipid solubility. Maybe its breakdown products can't and so they need LSD to pass into the brain prior to them forming.

Another thing, if they are lipid soluble but destroyed in the digestive system, then they might work by injection.

If they are active orally that would be fantastic, but I doubt it. If they were active orally it seems like someone would have already tested that.

Yes, they would be very small for sure. It forms more than 1 break down product.

90-99% of the LSD ingested within a few hours becomes break down products or byproducts. One product that forms in humans after ingesting LSD is 2-oxo-3-hydroxy LSD (O-H-LSD). I wonder if that's active? Another that forms is lysergic acid ethylamide. Others include iso-LSD, nor-LSD, lysergic acid ethyl-2-hydroxyethylamide (LEO), 14-hydroxy-LSD, 13-hydroxy-LSD and isonor-LSD.

^^Many of the metabolites of lsd are not active. There could be some that are I don't know. Iso-lsd is inactive for example. Hydroxylated metabolites may be less lipid soluble and thus cross the blood brain barrier slower and they could in theory be more potent at the same receptors as lsd I really don't know. This happens in the case of THC and one of its main liver metabolites 11-hydroxy-THC. It appears to be more psychoactive but with a slower onset of action. The higher activity could be explained by receptor binding activity and slower onset of action could be explain by a weakened ability to cross the blood brain barrier.

Which may also happen with LSD but I don't know of any direct evidence for it.

Forensic chemists have done lots of this research into drug metabolites. Its in their advantage to be able to detect not just LSD but anything that it breaks down into to be able to prove that someone has used the substance. This is a normal part of forensic chemistry.

The only real way to know is to compare their pharmacokinetic profiles using different forms of administration and receptor binding activity and specificity would also help. Also post mortem analysis of brain tissue helps say what was going on.



Just because lsd disappears below an analytical methods level of detection does not mean it is not there. Remember we are diluting roughly a hundred micrograms of a substance into many many liters of human fluid and then adding all the fats and tissue into the equation makes it no small task. But it is do able and has been done. It also depends on what kind of tissue one is analyzing. Blood you can just take and take and take and it most likely will be undetectable in the blood as LSD very quickly. But the substance can still hang out in brain tissue for a while. One can't exactly slice up human brain tissue to see if LSD is in their brain when they are tripping. Theoretically you could but its of course unethical.


LSD does not break down into strychnine. But could it break down under storage conditions into a substance that has a strychnine like effect? Maybe but what is a strychnine like effect? Muscle convulsions?

http://www.erowid.org/ch...cals/lsd/lsd_myth5.shtml

This effect is most likely a result of impurities present in the LSD from the manufacturing process, other ergot alkaloids. Maybe one of them is breaking down and becomes more toxic or more potent. Either way I doubt pure LSD breaks down into something that can lead to such an effect as far as I know LSD's main breakdown product is iso-lsd and it doesn't do anything.

http://www.clinchem.org/cgi/content/full/44/2/287

"Iso-LSD is not psychoactive (1, but like LSD, the compound is classified as a schedule I drug under the Controlled Substances Act of 1970. Because LSD is prepared from ergot alkaloids with isomeric configuration at C-8 position, both LSD and iso-LSD are present in most illicit preparations. To control the use of LSD and iso-LSD, establishing a procedure to detect and quantify these compounds in urine is prudent. In this report, we describe a method that can be used routinely to detect the iso-LSD in large numbers of urine specimens."

http://www.springerlink....ontent/u78t70n63u4l2517/