SWIM found some sodium fumarate laying around and was wondering if this could be used to make a solution of fumaric acid. SWIM would imagine one would have to free the fumarate from the salts and then somehow get them into water without the sodium? Actually on second thought I dunno how practical doing something like that would be. One would have to get rid of the water...

has any other SWIM heard the sound of their dmt fumarate tumbling together inside their little jar/container after they are all dry?? haha it sounds like a salt shaker

So does the FASA method drop out 5-meo-dmt as well? if using chaliponga?

Does the acetone really have to be anhydrous? Does 5ml water per litre acetone make that much difference (if using 99.5% acetone)? Also read somewhere that you could use NaOH to make anhydrous Acetone. What about the water in 99% fumaric?


Edit:

I really should try reading other posts before asking silly questions but then its late and it can get confusing with all these different teks and chemicals etc - BAH I'm going to bed.

No. Malic acid won’t work. SWIM already tried it. It produces a sticky goo like all the other common acids. Malic acid is far more water soluble than fumaric acid. Water solubility for malic acid is 36.35 g/100 ml. You need an acid that is practically insoluble in water or else you end up with a goo. I think the only other option is picric acid which is explosive!

Great great thread! Many thanks for posting, sir.

Great thread, and great research. I've been away from the site for a while and the advances noted here have really surprised me.

I'm definitely going to give this a try once I can get the supplies together, on that point does anyone know of a good source for Fumaric acid in the UK, I've checked a few healthfood/vitamine stores but none of them have it - no surprise there, they're generaly understocked compared to the U.S.A.

Is it still safe to buy Fumaric acid online without raising suspicion like with NaOH?

Yes, fumaric acid isn't used for anything illicit that I know of. The only common thing I know of it being used for is winemaking.

Thank you. SWIM has placed the order. As what another poster said, Google wasn't very helpful. All those Chinese sites trying to sell 25kg of the stuff.

Does one need to purify Xylene using 50/50 water first to remove sediments, before doing FASA?

Also, can one use Xylene instead of Acetone?

I'm not sure what "sediments" you're referring to. Regardless, any sediment should be easily removed by filtration.



For what?

For the SA part of the FASA. Mixing Fumaric acid with Xylene since Xylene would be used for the pull anyway.

Maybe I should have read better. Now that I think about it, there's a reason Acetone goes with Fumaric acid, separate from the Xylene pull.

I suppose it's possible, I don't know that anyone has tried it. If fumaric acid is quite soluble in xylene it seems like it would work. Acetone is just such a ubliquitously available solvent (and is known to work and dissolve fumaric acid well0 that it seems like the convenient choice.

How much citric acid saturated acetone would it take to pull a gram of spice?

Is the citrate salt more or less soluble in acetone than the freebase is in naphtha?

SWIMS FOAF is getting cheap Fumaric acid (cheaper than £28 for 45g anyway) and plans to sell on ebay etc for around £3 for 50g - that is if it ever gets here. FOAF got an email saying it would be delivered this week.

k- so should one bother with a wash of their STB product using this method? Will bits of water/basified muck from a sloppy separation cause problems with this technique?

Also, aprox how much fumaric acid per expected gram of spice should one be using, swim understands an excess is called for- just wants a ballpark figure

1g of dmt with 309mg of fumaric acid

Ok, capsules that are 500mg each aren't that precise. And a scale I'm waiting on only measures in 10mg amounts. I read we can use more fumaric acid when mixing with Acetone, or are the ratios really critical?

Yes, they will. It may make a mess actually. On the otherhand, separating layers is pretty much an elementary skill to learn, it would be generally assumed that one does not have a sloppy separation to begin with!

SWIM's FOAF does not want to know how things could turn out in such a case. If water is present in the xylene/toluene, then the dmt fumarate will be dissolved into it. And since the water will most likely be basified with NaOH, some of the dmt fumarate will be freebased and hide inside the xylene/toluene. Any way one tries to see it, bad separation just asks for unnecessary trouble. Just get only the solvent out, it's easier!

Re to the first question, the STB dmt-fumarate product can be washed with clean acetone, just to remove any residual lipid impurities, and any xylene/toluene.