So lately i have been thinking about life and death, but not in a depressing way.

I have had this thought on my mind for the past week or so, i guess u can look at is reincarnation, but the thought is thinking that i have been present in this world at some point if not through history. somewhere Terence M. says something like your whole life is a preparation for death and a transition to the next realm maybe not in those exact words but close.

Now if consider that the life you are presently living in is a separate REALM, when you die and pass through and are born again,
you enter a new realm or the next realm, you are a baby and you start all over, i believe somewhere a quote from Einstein he says we are permitted to stay children our whole lives.

i guess its not a question i am asking, just some thoughts floating around in my mind, and was hoping to get some responses to.

and some other things i want to talk about, currently i am living in a place were they are very religious in Vietnamese and all the Buddhas but the main religion is called cao dai, they sometimes have big events were they have who they call the master, he is basically is a medium and spirits/Deities take over his body and talk, most of the time they discuss the dangers and what kinds of things are to come, unfortunately, he is Vietnamese and can only understand Vietnamese, but there are translators luckily, i have been in the presence of many gods, the wind god, Mother earth , water god, the tiger deity, Quan Yin, there are many deities, the last gathering was for celebration of the moon festival, and the wind god came and spoke of lots of storms and flooding, obviously we have already seen a lot of this, one of the gods had spoke of how the earth is trying to eliminate large populations, the ones who disrespect this earth, and basically said this earth has way to many people and needs to level out.

idk take it however you like lots of stuff has been going this year, lots of disasters, recently been seeing videos of "ufo" sightings on tv. lots of random thoughts but thought i would throw them into the pot hopefully it will generate other thoughts, thanks for the time and reading.

Reincarnation seems a bit "out there" in many ways. I'm not saying it isn't possible, it's just the chances of being reincarnated as a human would be slim at best. For such a system to work you would possibly be reincarnated as any species...Not just on earth but everywhere in the universe. Why would such a system be implemented for human beings only?

I've also thought alot about life and death in the past few years. The only conclusion I came to was this: I know nothing of the universe from before I was born. There was nothing, something like 13 billion years passed by without my knowledge. After I die, the rest of the time will pass by. My body will rot, rejoin the earth. Eventually, the earth itself will die. My atoms will be long gone and spread far and wide. Humanity will be gone without much of a trace.

Even if we survive long enough to travel beyond our galaxy, nothing will matter. We all die, and because of that it doesn't matter. Even if some master alien race created us and we evolve past them and discover the true nature of the universe. We cure ageing and all disease, create life like gods...We are still contained in the universe. Even if we evolve past the limits of space / time and everything, we are still contained within something. Nothing matters, ever. There is no meaning in anything, it's all a human illusion.

The fact that anything exists at all is what puzzles me the most. It's a question that I'm barely able to ask. I can't possibly put it to words because every time I feel it, it slips away. This entire universe just should not exist, yet somehow we have this. I try to imagine an empty world, it's ridiculous because to have "empty" you need a container, something that can be "empty". To have a container, you need something to contain the container; a fence to fence-off another fence.

Is reincarnation any less believable than this incarnation you currently have?

^ Thats a damn good point..I have never heard anyone really put it that way before.

joedirt you got it my man, that's the way I view it as well. Though if you dare to take it a step further I would highly recommend any book by Dr Michael Newton. He is the pioneer of in-between life regression by the use of deep hypnosis. You can view some videos on youtube to gain interest, though I would highly recommend his second book Journey of a Soul. I am sceptical by nature with no real religious beliefs, but you simply cant ignore his research.

For me his work is like when you try to tell people who have never tried spice how good it is...you just want them to try to see what they say.

Well none of us know nothing of the universe before we are born. how are you so positive that you have not been here before just in a different vessel?

How do you not know that you have been starting over all your whole life your body may die off and yes you will contribute to earth, but what about your spirit and your soul.


"Let us see if this definition of an entity as an evolving process can shed light on the problem. One recalls that an entity is a unity of processes requiring a given, indivisible span of time, or epoch, for its realization. The duration of an epoch can vary for different entities, depending on the complexity and number of processes entering into their realization. An electron or a mu-meson require a very short epoch for their realization, on the order of forty-eight hour; a human or an elephant require an epoch of fifty to a hundred year for their realization. While a universe requires an epoch on the order of tens of billions of years. The point is that each of these entities require its full epoch to realize itself as a unified totality of process. Its full identity as a realized actuality depends on its full epoch of evolving becoming. Its is nothing at any one of its instants; it is itself only when taken in its unified totality of successive instants.
Thus, identity, for any actual entity, consist of a unity of ongoing process, a unity that incorporates into its present aspect conditioning influences of its past and the anticipation of its future. In living organism, this immediate experience of ongoing process becomes identifiable with its notion of self; that is, it awareness of itself, its "self-hood", becomes synonymous with its experience of dynamical process. To clarify this, lets us state what self hood of an organism does not consist of. Self-hood does not consist of its identification with the material bodily components, for its material components are continually being Effaced and Replaced with others by the process of metabolism."


Just a quick little section from Terence Mckenna not fully based on what i wrote but felt like it fit.

Anyone?

"You know, I don't think it would be any more unusual for me to show up in another life, than showing up in this one!"
Eleanor Roosevelt

How do we not know that when we die we just start over. we dont have proof that says it does or doesnt. i think the notion of reincarnation after death should just be as plausable as the rest of the notions.

what about when kids are born and sometimes kids as young as 4 or whenever they start talking, say things that just blow your mind sometimes, there has to be some resonance going on there.

what about the young prodigies that have these amazing talents, and it just seems like they just have some old soul in them.

in a way reincarnation could be similar to spice in the way that once you enter and return, you do not remember anything maybe parts but its still very vague.

Imagine if we all were constantly reincarnated, you couldn't possibly remember all your past lives you would probably go crazy, Life feels like a constant circle of the same thing over and over, but the players are just different every-time.

Hey Doc,

You say there is no proof, will...consider this. Dr M. newton documented 10 thousand in-between life regressions all saying the same thing we die and go back to our soul groups and repeat. Now I believe science nowadays tends to agree with and understand hypnosis. More so in the case of psychotherapy. I would say this is logical and baseline Scientific evidence for incarnation...if you are willing to do your research, you will find most answers.

yeah...it's nice to believe in reincarnation, but personally it seems to me as wishful thinking like any other afterlife believe. If we accept the beginning (of life, universe, or anything), we must accept the end too. I don't have good english to go deep into metaphysics, but if you think about that it raises some common sense questions.

For example if we just swap the bodies in reincarnation process, how comes there is more and more people. Reincarnation would require the same amount of souls. I could imagine to get reincarnated into animals too and into any being in the universe so there could be stable amount of souls in universe, but then universe must be without the beginning and the end. No beginning, no young universe full of young stars, no developed universe with plenty of star systems like ours and no end. Universe must be than eternal 'machine', designed for us to reincarnate. Those thoughts are just examples of the problem. More I thought about that more out of reality, even ridiculous it sounded. It is truly a belief, a faith.

Other thing is that even though reincarnation theory sound noble and fair it didn't bring anything good to people. Just created the soil for caste system in hindu religion, which is pretty ugly.

I'm big fan of chan, zen philosophy and great Indian yogi masters like Nisargadatta, but I think I die one day, which is ok.

There are many different ideas about all of this kinda stuff. But NOBODY KNOWS FOR SURE.

--Life is a miracle beyond human comprehension. Just do your thing, and leave the rest to God.

(or as Terence McKenna once said , "just trust yourself, and let go"

--We are here for a reason, and it's to live well, so that we die well. This is all that we can do. We are powerless to do anything else. JUST LIVE LIFE!

Why can’t the “multiverse” be eternal? Some physicists suggest that the multiverse is made up of many sheets or membranes, and that when two of these membranes come into contact, a “big bang” and a new universe is created at that point. If this is the way things are, then universes are constantly being created , always were, and always will be.

I also think the idea of reincarnation is overly simple. How you look at the nature of reality determines how you view the concept of reincarnation. Here’s an analogy I often use:

When you read a good novel and have a strong personal affinity for one of the characters, it’s easy to get “lost” in the story. That’s the goal of a good writer, isn’t it? To allow readers to be absorbed by the story and personally connected to the characters?

When reading a well-written novel, we come to know the characters. We know their history, their experiences, their feelings and innermost thoughts. We might form an intimate psychological relationship with them. But who are the characters? What are they? Where are they? Do they exist? The book is a series of ink splotches on sheets of paper, so the characters aren’t in the book. So they must exist within the reader.

Maybe life is like this. Maybe we don’t exist in the way we think we do. Maybe we are characters in the mind of a being who happens to be reading this particular story. During my most profound and difficult DMT experience (I was quite certain I had died), I was “reassured” by an entity not to be concerned with losing my Earthly existence, because it’s something I never actually had in the first place. I was told, “Don’t be too concerned about dying – after all, you were never actually alive to begin with.”

Hey zubidlo,

I think your logic is too narrow pertaining to earth, then you seem to use this as a background to base other questions off. This can lead you very far from a simple answer. I mean if we are at all to consider an invisible self inside us who is the real us...then all the logic you know from earth may not apply to everything in existence. For that simple fact. So I could put forth the earth type logical that souls are not created here on Earth an may be created on "the other side" so to speak. Now your first question is answered. If there are souls being made all the time, similar to children born all the time on Earth then surely as time goes on there will be more demand for a human body. That's not to mention the sheer enormity of the multi-verse we know, and lets face it (given we all smoke dmt) there is probably other places for souls to exist that we cant see. So there could be trillions of souls.

So its simple to see how answering your first question basically nulls the rest of your follow up questions. If you imagine souls being born like a big bang, boom its born and travels out possibly for ever. Now you could also hypothesise souls may be born an follow the big bang and grow forever. You see the old saying all good things must come to an end is scientifically not true. "if the universe has a significant amount of dark energy that will be used as a infinite force, then the expansion of the universe can continue forever—even if Ω > 1.". It is like the other poster says is it any less plausible or weird that we just arrived here in this body, than the notion of reincarnation.

P.S your English is good, better than mine and I am English

Hello Zubidlo, and thank you for sharing your thoughts.

I think you will very much enjoy this reading. It is a very short story and should only take you a few moments to read. In my opinion it is generally pretty mind blowing, and it touches on some of the things that you wrote about.

http://galactanet.com/oneoff/theegg_mod.html

I think you would enjoy reading Logic Truth and Language by Ayer. He also felt that things don't have meaning, or at least that they don't have meaning in the sense that most people think of the word meaning.

Tomtom already sort of fielded this but I wanted to say it in my own words just for the sake of sorting out my own thoughts

I used to have this exact same logical problem with reincarnation until I had my first breakthrough on psychedelics.

Like Tom eluded to above, about the invisible self inhabiting us all... the way I see it, god is who we all really are underneath our skin and god is sooooo massive that he is all of us simultaneously. To me, there is no individual soul there is just a great big enormous infinate god soul that takes great pleasure in manifesting (as Alan Watt's puts it 'hiding from himself' in a multitude of various forms. Indeed, it could be said that if god is life then god cannot create that which is not life (having no reference outside of itself to know what it would mean to not be alive), thus meaning that even the stones and trees have an amount of life and possible sentience to them. With this being the case, god is not limited to how many forms he can manifest in at one time, it could even be possible that god manifests and experiences all forms at all times in all possible variations.

I really hate using the word god, because it carries such a heavy connotation with it and when I use the term, please understand it's to describe an eternal formless soul which defies all explanation. It is an all encompassing Tao, however the term god is short and sweet and gets the point across and most people are familiar enough with the concept (at least I hope)

EDIT: I had to add this since it just occured to me as a decent analogy of what I think. If all of reality, all you can see around you right now, were to be likened to a balloon, god is the air in the balloon. It gives shape and definition to reality like air gives a shape and definition to a balloon. When we die, the air is released from the balloon back into the space in came from (hyperspace, what I believe to be our true home). Reincarnation can be thought of as the simple process of after god is done enjoying the experience of one reality 'balloon', he retreats back into himself until he is ready to do it all over again. If we can accept this, then we could possibly gain some insight into how the multiverse might actually exist.

Just think about your breathing right now. In and out, in and out, in succession never managing to go for very long without breathing. Try to use your imagination and think how maybe your body isn't breathing per se, but god is breathing into your body like a balloon, keeping it alive. I'm reminded of the bible verse in Genesis about 'god breathed the breath of life into man and man became a living soul', plus all the stuff about prana and breathwork in eastern thought.

Hope I contributed to the discussion

^ you did tremendously, thank you.

I am really not sure exactly what answer i am looking for whether reincarnation exist or doesn't?
looking at the question in those two forms wont get me anywhere.

i am really not 100% sure, nobody is... What is death? the feeling of being what is called alive sometimes is the most mind blowing thought,
this feeling, is strange to me, have i been here before or is this my first time here? lots of questions circle my mind day and night, just trying to get a grasp on it.

Dont asked why i have become so concerned to figure this answer out.

about a month ago in august, on the 9th to be precise, i was hit by a truck trying to get across a cross walk, luckily i was able to back myself up to were the truck just clipped my knee, after being hit i was thrown through the air, and at this point i spin through the air and hit the ground, i was quick to get up, and my addreline was running so fast, One of the first questions that came to my mind was, am i dead as i touch myself over and throughout my body.

None of us really know the experience of death, do we die and float above our body, does it just go black, idk. So many questions and theories ponder my mind, as have even thought of this notion that seems possible but very hard to believe it could be true,

The notion is that what if when you die in actuality your dead, but in your reality you are still alive and your life continues, the thought kind of trips me out, but i find that very hard to be the case, but who knows.

Thanks noted. and i will be doing my research thanks.

Hi guys,

I love to be part of this discussion. Now, I don't care much about metaphysics, but I like to discus stuff.

I can see that my thoughts could sound narrow, but believe me it's because lack of written english language capabilities only. It's hard to express myself in this language. Takes me ages to write this too. I would love to share this discussion live (on acid preferably )

I have nothing against reincarnation belief, it's just...I mean every afterlife belief has no problem to accept The beginning of life, but could not accept the end...christianity and so on : Child is born, lives by god rules in kingdom of devil then dies and goes to heaven, otherwise hell. It's similar with hindu, buddhism. Get born and then struggle in the circle of reincarnations (hell) till you realize satori and go to heaven. There are some cooler variations like Gnostic sect : reality is a dream trap created by evil creator who thinks is the god, but he is not...blah blah

gibran2 wrote :
Why can’t the “multiverse” be eternal? Some physicists suggest that the multiverse is made up of many sheets or membranes, and that when two of these membranes come into contact, a “big bang” and a new universe is created at that point. If this is the way things are, then universes are constantly being created , always were, and always will be.

^^Could be...but again if universe is not eternal let's do "multiuniverse" which is and could function for us to reincarnate for as long as we need.

tomtomtom wrote:
I think your logic is too narrow pertaining to earth, then you seem to use this as a background to base other questions off. This can lead you very far from a simple answer. I mean if we are at all to consider an invisible self inside us who is the real us...then all the logic you know from earth may not apply to everything in existence. For that simple fact. So I could put forth the earth type logical that souls are not created here on Earth an may be created on "the other side" so to speak. Now your first question is answered. If there are souls being made all the time, similar to children born all the time on Earth then surely as time goes on there will be more demand for a human body. That's not to mention the sheer enormity of the multi-verse we know, and lets face it (given we all smoke dmt) there is probably other places for souls to exist that we cant see. So there could be trillions of souls

^^If I understand it right (maybe not) you seem to accept a creation of a soul easily too. Souls are created by someone somewhere and then we happily reincarnate till multiuniverse keeps his side of the deal. If soul could get created why not simply die too? Why eternal? I mean...sure in nature almost everything is cyclical. But it's not the same morning, it's new one, different.

I don't want to sound disrespectful or anything, it's just the reincarnation theory sound to me as bad as heaven stuff. I mean who would like to spend eternity in heaven? ETERNITY! After few 100 years I would try to kill myself out of boredom and emptiness every way I could think of. If we truly reincarnate, thank god we can't remember it, because otherwise I would spend my last 100 000 reincarnations to find the way to kill the god and to destroy the multiuniverse

Anyway, thanks, you made me wander where this reincarnation belief started, I go to search net for it's history now.