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Europe... Options
 
polytrip
#1 Posted : 9/23/2011 3:08:31 PM
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What's the future of europe going to be?
I think the EU, the way it is organised is a huge monstrosity.
Yet, i think we europeans need eachother if we want to ensure next generations europeans can also live in a safe and politically and economically stable place. We need eachother if we want to make this world more fair, if we want to ban polution, products made by child-slaves, if we want to deal with human trafiking, if we want a sustainable way of living.

-Even the larger european nations are internationally speaking, quite small. Within 20 to 30 years, there will be no european nation in the top ten of largest economies. In this light, the idea that european nations can have their own individual foreign policy makes no sense at all. Especially the superpower aspirations of france, britain and germany are totally unrealistic in every way.
-Britain for instance, fools itself in thinking that it has a powerfull international position, also as a result of it's alledged 'special relationship' with the USA. America on the other hand has found itself a replacement for the G7 and G8: the G2. And guess what...britain isn't part of it. China has become america's most important ally and this will only become more and more so. Britain will become only less and less significant in american eyes.
-That two european nations that each represent less than 1% of the global population have a permanent seat in the UN security councel is also insane in my view, and represents a worldview based on that of the old empires.
-Without america, britain and france would absolutely not have been able to conduct these minimal military operations in libya, in spite of what british and french politicians say. Both nations have only one small aircraft carrier for instance, so even at this very moment an independant british and french defence policy is a total illusion.

European nations are increasingly becoming small and insignificant, from an international point of view. On their own they won't be able to have ANY say in what's going on in the world and even what's going on within europe itself.

Despite the fact that the EU is a monstrosity, it is still a relatively young project compared to that of the nationstate. Changing the EU will therefore be a piece of cake compared to changing individual nationstates.
The nationstates of europe are beyond fixing. The incompetence of their leaders is shocking: Belgium doesn't even have a legislative branch of the government for more than one and a half years right now; poland has been lead for years by two kazynsky's who where even more insane than the unabomber..they held heated political debates about whether teletubbie tinkywinky is homosexual; british government is a sort of inverted robin hood in that it steals money from the poor to pay for the bonusses of gambling bankers; The direction of angela merkels policys seem to be decided with tossing coins; in italy, the president is a servant of the maffia with obvious fargoing delusions of grandeur that make moamar gadhafi look like a modest man....

Most shocking to me is that europeans find their national soevereignty of more importance than whether their childeren will grow up on a politically and economically stable continent. Nationalism has repeatedly plumethed europe (and the rest of the world i might add) into total chaos and destruction.

We europeans need eachother and we need to reform the EU. That our failure to see this combined with the incompetence of our leaders is bringing us all as well as other non-european nations, closer to bankrupcy each day deeply worries me.

 

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teotenakeltje
#2 Posted : 9/23/2011 3:58:58 PM

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I'm a bit pessimistic regarding the future of Europe.
One nation after another is struggling with huge depts, it's like some sort of snowball effect right now...
I like the idea of a united Europe, but for the moment it doesn't realy look like it. The opinions of the different leaders are way to differentiated.

Look at Italy for instance: tons of Libian refugees are stranding on Sicily, but not one European nation was willing to help them out and accept some of those people. That is not the correct behaviour of a 'united' Europe.
Look at Hungary: nationalists are making laws there, making propaganda against the gypsy population. That is not what we need in Europe.
Belgium is ridiculous. I am a Belgian and when I see this stupid NVA party, i feel ashamed. They should stop acting like kids and get along....

Politics don't realy interest me because of the people that are making politics. Will the moment come that GOOD people are in charge? Sorry but I realy doubt it.
 
obliguhl
#3 Posted : 9/23/2011 4:04:42 PM

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My guess would be:

A core EU made up by Germany and France will govern the smaller states based on the argument of economical power. Especially germany will use it's ties to china and russia to grow, but will ultimately collapse because of demographic changes and the low-wage sector. The UK will stay rather independent and will resort to extreme propaganda and mindcontrol measures to keep the public at bay. At the same time, the USA loses it's superpower status. This allows the arab world to grow. Through the use of Turkey and supported by china, they'll try to gobble up parts of Europe, because China knows that the arab world is easy to play, because they're so focused on religion (and not economy).

Wink
 
polytrip
#4 Posted : 9/23/2011 5:06:33 PM
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I'm also baffled by how decadent europe has become. More than 500 million people panicking over 5000 libyan refugees....classifying this as mass-immigration.

Europe has the economic power and means to get over this current crisis: the debth of europe as a whole is smaller than that of the USA. That there is the serious risk that we won't be able to manage it, is purely because the lack of will to do so.

Nationalism is a bitch: the totally misplaced feeling of superiority of europeans will eventually put them into an inferiour position.

To the rest of the world we're becoming more and more of a joke. The americans and chinese laugh at the brit's and the french. The british are so proud of their 'glorious' nation, while to americans it's just an insignificant little island that nicely in it's 'soevereignty' follows the USA like a pet doggy. That's how far the 'special relationship' goes. The brits are allowed to wait in line, shut up and do whatever america wants.

The only chance of having anything to say over our own destiny is in a united europe. If we fail to do so, we will loose the very political and economical stability on wich all of these misplaced feelings of superiority are based.

If europeans want to waste the future of their childeren on nationalist sentiments of 'superiority' i feel that europeans aren't worth the peace, stability and prosperity a united europe has brought them.

Maybe i should move to argentina or something. I don't feel very rtable in a sinking ship.

 
teotenakeltje
#5 Posted : 9/23/2011 6:23:51 PM

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polytrip wrote:


Maybe i should move to argentina or something. I don't feel very rtable in a sinking ship.



....I just bought a house in Germany. We'll see what the future brings Smile
 
 
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