Hi, a friend of mine is interested in purchasing 2kgs of MHRB. Since this seems to be the place with a vast wealth of knowledge on the subject, I was hoping to find some help.

My friend is probably going to use the STB method in order to minimize the number of items needed. He has never carried out an experiment like this an I intend to acquire some information in order to optimize his safety and to maximize his yields.

q#0 : If you use lye to basify your initial mixture of water and MHRB, would 1gram of MHRB per 1 gram of lye and 15ml of water bring the solution to the perfect PH for this extraction?

q#1 : Is there any particular place anyone would recommend for acquiring MHRB?

q#2 : I need a more in depth explanation for step 2B. You say that if you used the STB method, you are ready to add the nonpolar solvent to your alkaline mixture. What does adding the nonpolar solvent (in my case it would be naptha. I just want DMT, no jungle spice) do EXACTLY at that time and how much should I add? At this point, do I just stir gently before the sodium carbonate wash?

q#3 : Also, HOW exactly is a sodium carbonate wash done? Where might one acquire sodium carbonate?

q#4 : You mentioned that there are 3 steps on this particular page (2of2) of your thread. You elaborate on steps 1A, 1B, 2A, 2B. What would be step 3 for the STB method?

q#5 : If the polar wash of the nonpolar solvent works out and the extraction process is at stage 3 of the process.. Would it work to evaporate the solvent by : Pouring hot water in 1st glass pan, 2nd glass pan in the hot water of pan 1, then pouring the solvent in the 2nd glass pan? (assuming the heat from the water below pan 2 heats pan 1 enough to evaporate the nonpolar solvent)

q#6 : If my friend decides to freeze it in order to achieve a pure precipitate, how would my friend 'harvest' (for lack of a better word) the DMT precipitate?

q#6 : should the solvent be evaporated as well even if it has been frozen for precipitate?

Please help, any help is greatly appreciated.

P.S. i forgot why i typed P.S.

Ah yes, a couple more things..

My friend was wondering if you could provide some indicators as in to how long you stir the basified water/MHRB mix, and how long you stir the mix after you add the nonpolar solvent.

Any help is great help!
sincerely, Al.

Edit : I've also read that non-sudsy ammonia works for a wash too.. what is the difference between washing with non-sudsy ammonia as opposed to sodium carbonate?

If you could take pictures of the washing process that would be the best, it seems to be the one part i can't visualize.

Also see http://www.erowid.org/plants/mi.../mimosa_chemistry1.shtml

Hi Al. K. Lloyd and welcome to the nexus!

I would like to give some small advice, because I fear that you may not get any replies to your questions.

1) you ask too many questions; I would advise doing more homework before asking what may seem bleedingly obvious to many people

2) please take care when referring to some steps, i.e. steps 1A, 2B, page 2 from some tek you might have found! That makes no sense, which tek you refer to? (i'm not looking for an answer, I see you're doing Noman's)

3) post in an appropriate section, i.e. the official extraction thread. I'm not a mod to tell you where to post but you'll just get more chances to be noticed if posting in the right place.

But re you your questions,

a) just follow the tek word-by-word.

b) Do not worry about Jungle spice if naphtha is your NP solvent.

c) Do not worry about sodium carbonate or ammonia wash. Totally useless IMHO.

d) Do not bother about evaporating the NP solvent either; just make small WARM (NOT hot) naphtha pulls, (use 1/10th or less of your basic solution naphtha volume, i.e 50-100ml warm naphtha / 1 litre of basified solution), then stick it in the freezer.

e) should precipitates form overnight in the the naphtha, use your imagination on how to physically separate them from the naphtha. Once someone sees it, it should take no more than 10-20 min to the average mind to devise a good strategy to get them out

Good luck!

How is it that a part of the impure DMT is washed away with the cold ammonia wash? The water is cold and alkalic. DMT is almost impossible to dissolve in water, especially when it's cold. Ammonia is very basic so it won't convert the DMT to it's salt, still making it impossible to dissolve.

SWIM was about to do some purification, which SWIM has never done before, but he isn't sure now. He told me he was thinking of ammonia wash to wash away the lye and then a wash with active coal for the discoloration. I'm really confused now, so I cannot help him, but maybe someone here knows someone who has experience with purification and can help abit? Thanks!

The most likely reason is that the ammonia wash washes away dmt-n-oxide which is the yellow impurity that many people want out. dmt-n-oxide freebase is more water soluble than dmt and is not pulled very well with naphtha.

Any wash is pretty much unnecessary however if one is recrystallising.

Did post #20 get cut off. Can I read the rest.

I think you should create a separate tek for making the most pure and getting the best yields from a food safe tek using vinegar, lime, naptha, ect.. i forget what the tek is called. but i remember it has a bunch of numbers in it

No, it didn't get cut off, other things just came up (I think that was around the time I started running across fly agaric mushrooms everywhere, so I started putting my energy into synthesizing a guide to safely identifying them (at least in North America, I'm not familiar with the lookalikes in the rest of the world... but the notion that you have to be a master mycologist to avoid mistaking them for a deathcap is definitely a myth), cooking with them (including how to prepare them as a non-psychoactive foodstuff), the chemistry of them, etc.

I really ought to get back to the project of updating the Overview. Since it was written before the advent of dry teks and FASA/FASI processes, those now-popular processes aren't encompassed in it, but they easily could be.



I think the tek you're referring to is q21q21's tek... the name is really misleading, since the process was actually developed by amor fati and others (I think jorkest was another early innovator). q21q21 pretty much just compiled amor fati's method into a tek and named the tek after himself (peppering in some dangerous advice like instructions to heat naphtha on the stovetop, which has fortunately since been removed).

Personally I'm not a fan of teks... I can understand where they're useful for someone doing their very first extraction, but once you understand what you're trying to accomplish, they become pretty unnecessary. The methods and processes (A/B, STB, dry methods, freeze-precipitation, salting, etc.) are useful, but I think getting so caught up in numbers (x amount of this, y amount of that) can be a distraction. I've personally never measured anything during spice extractions.

But yeah, I'll try to make time to finish my update to the Overview so it encompasses all the current methods and solvents, and gives a more complete background on the chemistry of the processes for those who are interested.

thank you so much man, this been great help for me, cause i was (and still) planning to go with noman tek (for my first extraction) but some things still unclear to me.. should i use purified water? should i acidify/base the water to certain p.h level before i add the lye? and for last, maybe its from my lack of knowledge in chemistry, but will it help if first ill do the stage you decribed in the Acid/Base Extraction (heat in ph2-4 water) and than start the noman tek (Straight to Base Extraction no?)?
ill use mimosa anyway..

thnx

this info is exacually what has been needed to explain what is going on rather than trying to follow a tek blind. great stuff.
i am currently doing my first extracting of acacia improvising from all i have studied and have found the nexus has taught me so much over the years. great place.
peace

Entropymancer - did you ever get time to finish that update of your Overview ( post #28 )?

Thanks for all your guidance.

Great post. This in combination with the basic chemistry thread seems like the ideal introduction before deciding on and attempting an extraction tek. Thanks for taking the time and writing such a great summary of the process

Bumping this thread....Should be read by ALL newcomers to extraction..

I've got a question. I'm new so maybe I've missed this somewhere else. If so please excuse my mistake!

If my Elephant has a vaporizer and Mimosa hostilis root/bark, would it not be possible to vape it directly, without extraction??? Specially since such a low melting and boiling point (lower than 180°C so Cellulose will not burn...) Since base is much more volatile than salt, could plant material be placed in base solution to make sure that DMT is in base form (subsequently dry plant material and then vape)? Or is the concentration just too low?

Thank you for your time and effort.
best regards,
the violett elephant

My first post!!

250 grams of MHRB,
1 LITER OF PETROLEUM ETHER
250 grams of NAOH.

Going for Vovin's tek.

Thank you.

awesome thread. i have a lot of work to do...

Another Necessary Bump.

Fantastic guide, thanks entropymancer (y) much love x

Duuude. Thanks so much for the rundown, Entropymancer. I've made a doc with your overview and some of the teks mentioned, and further notes from threads. Seems like a fine starting place in the midst of a dauntingly vast amount of options and information online.

Thanks again for your work!!

Thank you for great post detailing the chemistry and the essence of teks! I read every word and it is a great help.