I look outside and see concrete buildings to my left and right. Below me, people are dressed up in these clothes they wear to go to do this thing called work. They seem to talk about the interesting topic of last nights latest reality show. I hear the cars buzzing past, eager to get to their jobs. Wow, i think, i guess these must be really important "Alien beings"!

-I Look indoors, the flat needs cleaning. The dust is gathering on the same old bits of rubbish called ornaments, that i use to make up for lack of stimulation. In fact the only thing natural in my flat is the water that comes out of my taps, and the stale air in the rooms. Thinking about this is feel anxious, and feel the need to re assure myself that i'm ok, and life is ok by " checking my taps are off, and diary is up to date."

-I start to think some more about the life we are living these days and it starts to feel like a big delusion. I think that all we need is a simple house in the nature, and some Animals and a bit of land. There is no need for Concrete buildings, ships, airplanes, television, radio, i think. What a load of junk all that is-what happened to family and friends and a simple life??

-I realise that we are now too spoilt to even contemplate such a thought, and that i may sound to some like a wierdo. Another thinking session bites the dust!

-How do you deal with this new modern life thing. Do you get similar feelings?.. Your thoughts please......

Why are you there in the first place? Is your work very fulfilling, existentially? Or is it maybe a temporary thing as a part of a process for you to get something else and then go?

Also, can you diminish the amount of negative stimulus around you, and surround you with the best stimulus possible, given the limits of where you live?

At this moment I live in a big city, but its temporarily. Nevertheless even living in a big city I choose as much as possible to have good stimulus around me. My apartment is quiet, I ride the bicycle as my main mode of transport (or public transport), I buy organic/local, dont have TV, and spend my time surrounded by good people or alone. I avoid going out to bars and nightclubs and go only to special concerts (last one was roger waters), am constantly travelling around to nature places and going to parks and beach in the city. So even though I agree that there's a lot of bad things around, I try to choose the best out of whats available, and I know im here temporarily, im in a job I consider to be productive for others, and Im here gathering experience and making contacts, and soon I will leave and enjoy my life in a more quiet place.

Also, you can make indoor places look "natural" or "harmonic". It certainly doesnt mean accumulating a bunch of useless stuff but a bit of arranging, or some intuitive "feng shui", and you can feel very comfortable around certain man made things. You have been travelling to asia too, I know. Havent you felt a completely different atmosphere around certain temples or human constructions, that werent as 'harsh' on your perception like usual concrete and plastic is?

By the way, there's too many people in this world, I dont think everybody could have some productive land and animals... So who's gonna be left out?

I'm usually quite happy where i am , thanks Endlessness.

-I'ts just the Shulgen documentary got me thinking a bit, that's all. I like my location because it's central and for ease of services i use. Actually i can't complain, because i have everything in front of me. But sometimes i think the reason why i feel anxiety is because of being located in such a rigid, organised, and controlled environment.

-It's at times like this that i start to think about just how unnatural life has become. Same old stuff, day in , day out. The work that people put in trying to defend stupid laws against smoking a little bit of weed. This modern world of ours is a breeding ground of so called self improvement, only to realise that the self was always fine, and never needed it- it was the modern world that was the problem...etc..

There is nothing inherently 'unnatural' about a city, nor any aspect of life within one. Cities are astonishingly beautiful organisms of which we are a living part.

I think it's wise to question notions that imply that one is separate from one's current environment, and that there is some better, 'sacred' environment to be found somewhere -anywhere- else. Much of it is bunkum received unchallenged from Judeo-Christianity, materialist science, the atomising social effects of western individualism and consumerism, etc., all of which conspires to paint a picture of reality in which everything seems to have its rightful place, except for human beings.

When harbouring these thoughts you should consider how you are connected to the groups, communities or movements within your city. Do you interact with it in a meaningful and productive way? What are its problems, and are you mindful of the fact that it's within your power to play some part in alleviating some of them? Closing off, alienating oneself, dreaming of faraway lands prepackaged to some particular personal taste is fundamentally cowardly and self-destructive IMO.

^ while that is all good and I agree with you that cities are not necessarily "unnatural", I still believe that we have become somewhat removed form our environments. Much of western society in general, while "natural" is still incongruent with the larger biosphere it exists within.

I understand the idea that nothing can really be "unnatural"..and I hear that more and more and have used the term that way to explain the same thing to people in the past. I really do agree all of this is natural. I still dont find it congruent though. Alot of our technologies and even our current modern lifestyle are not at all elegant in how they relate to the organic system that is the biosphere.

I guess what I mean is that for the most part soceity and technology is not holistic. That does not mean technology is bad..or that progression is not a good thing..but those things are neutral and it is the application of them that is to be judged..

The devistation to the biosphereic ecosystems that is a direct side effect of how modern society operates is a direct signal that this modality is out of sync with the larger eco-system. It is not holistic. That is a HUGE problem. We only have one earth..and essentially one eco-system. That same eco-system is what has sustained us for as long as we have been here..living incongruently with that system is bound to facilitate all kinds of mental and physical illness, both at the individual and planetary level.

We are a culture currently living out of sync. Perhaps this is just a learning period..you have to fall sometimes to learn how to walk..or take something apart to learn how it works..but in the end you have to put that thing back together for it to work in the first place.

Agreed, a lot of modern urban life is not optimal for the human organism, evident in the myriad 'diseases of civilisation' implicit in the acceptance of ubiquitous technology. Certainly pre-industrial peoples never had to contend much with things like metabolic syndrome, depression, chronic sleep debt, computer guy posture, etc. But I think these are all things westerners can reasonably expect to avoid with a modicum of effort and self-possession, as many people are embracing through things like the Paleo movement.

My reading of the OP picked up on a psychic detachment from the city, which I don't think is ever really warranted. It's entirely conceivable that the exact same alienated complaints could just as easily be being entertained by someone living that idealised life with a farm and animals, wishing he didn't have to tolerate the stink and bugs and longing for easy access to good medical help, a decent job, an intact roof and a nearby 7-11.

Sure the grass always looks greener, and everything's fucked up and everybody's an idiot and nothing goes quite the way it should. But it's vital to realise that'll always be the case wherever you go, be it the biggest city or farthest wilderness. The way I see it, you can keep running and being disappointed, or stick around and become engaged with the place you're in and work to better it for yourself and -hopefully- others. And that's much easier to accomplish than we tend to believe.

Christian,

I feel the same way - I'm not unhappy the way I am, but I feel I could be a lot happier and have a lot more 'me/family' time if I didn't have to work for money.

Icehouse has the right idea! I'm looking for a site to build a house and I am hoping to facilitate sustainable living as much as possible through renewable energy sources and growing food. Hopefully then I can reduce my workload, and spend more time living life... and I can't wait :-)

Thanks for your replies, Guys.

--Yes, i do think we all need an Icehouse homestead!

id also rather live in a forest... if it had electricity, running water and internet...


please appreciate the life you have and make the best of it


if you cant do that at least appreciate that you have a toilet

toilets are amazing...

Natural vs. Unnatural

Everything is natural. Including humans and what we do.

Of course nature isn't always subjectively good. Encephalitis and Ebola are natural. Our cities kind of resemble bacteria colonies in petri dishes. Certainly not good if you are a tree in the path of development.

Good and bad are relative, and can only be applied to the goals of a sentient individual or collections of individuals. If I am trying to get to London, buying a ticket to Heathrow is good. If I am trying to get to Shanghai, going to Heathrow might be good if I can get a connection easier from there than wherever I currently am. Hiking out into a national park is bad in this case, because there is no way to get to either Shanghai or London from there.

You have to find out what it is you value in life and then go live somewhere where you can have that. All places are certainly not equal. If you like to surf, you have to live somewhere with an ocean. And not all beaches are equal surfing spots. If you like to be around intellectuals, you should live somewhere near a good university. It isn't all that hard really. When you like fresh air, a slow pace of life, and beautiful aesthetics but you are living in New Jersey... you have to move.

I have been in over 50 countries. I can tell you, that it is NOT all the same. Life is very different from place to place. Culture, weather, opportunities for recreation, geomantic energy... you name it. Someone who would be happy as a bug in a rug in New Zealand might be miserable in Berlin... and vice versa. Travel. Find your shangri'la and go live there. Unless your job or friends are EXTREMELY awesome... there is no reason to live somewhere that annoys you and drags you down.

I'm grateful for all your replies, Guys.

-I live on a beautiful British island called Jersey. It was once a real gem, kinda unspoilt paradise. It's only 9x 5 miles big, or 45 square miles in size!!

-What prompted my post, is that way in which we are living in this Island. It's gone from a sleepy Island to a high tech place that's starting to go very wrong. Lots of Islanders are complaining about this.

-I guess it's the same everywhere. It's called "progress", and usually involves replacing trees and natural habitat with concrete, because us humans don't need that supposedly. What good is nature, when you could build some businesses there instead, and get people making money, right. I mean that's what we are born for, aint it?? (joke!)

-I also have travelled a lot, but definately see cities differently than i used to. I try to recharge my batteries in natural environments. Don't get me wrong, City life certainly has it's pull-but i've also got the idea that it's mostly frivolous junk that we've created, and now have to use all our energy and time protecting.

-

What about the island of Sark? It's fairly nearby isn't it? They don't even have cars! Relatively good weather and a safe and warm sense of community.

Hee Hee, Us Jersey "beans" stick to our own island, thanks. But nice idea!

I think nature and city life need to fuse more for sure. I do think that Humans are seperated from nature and divine spirit in a big way. Seperated from passion, beauty, and prosperous living. In a sense you could look at it like harmonics. If nature is a beautiful song, the reality show following uncomfortable bussiness suit wearing gas gussling suv driving society is an awful song that sounds like nails on a chalkboard.

I think nature is both delicate and resilient but we need to show the mother love before she decides to discipline our asses by quaking this shit apart. We've been naughty children of earth.

Who here thinks that earth is a consciouss being? I do.

-I think we like to kid ourselves into thinking we have some kinda control over Nature, and that we can tame and manipulate it. And to a certain extent we can. Such as Fire fighters do. But i have yet to see a Volcano fighter, or Tsunami fighter!!

Well put.

-Please don't make me laugh. I'm talking about a good life in the nature, where natural medicine and treatment is sussed, thanks to a focus placed into understanding it. As for a decent job, what is a decent job??- in the country you don't need dj's, car salesmen, pop groups, and all that crap. I'm talking about a stimulating good life in the nature where there is no longing because our human needs are DIRECTLY met, as opposed to indirectly in our modern day bullshit prohibitive societies where stupidity is respected over a simple, natural, highly stimulating life. An intact roof??, nearby 7-11, are you kidding me??..who says you can't live in the nature in fantastic accomodation, and set up shop there. All that technology stuff you have in society is but a replacement for the stimulation you have in the nature. In the city life is so dull looking at those same old concrete buildings, and meeting the same old people, i guess you need pop bands , daft newsreaders, crap reality tv to entertain you!

Don't assume everybody's city life is as boring as yours, please. There is a way to live ethically an interesting, fulfilling life in the city. The way you put it is very insulting. As if living in a city automatically made you a sheep...

"who says you can't live in the CITY in fantastic accomodation, and set up shop there." ?

There is lots of advantages to living in a city: cultural events, the variety of people and possibility to make connections, the practicality of being close to everything. As someone who is studying arts, I find it amazing to be living in a city where there is so much energy put into culture, musical and artistic events. There is indeed a lot of destructive things that comes out of a city, but also a lot of beautiful creations, intense energy, productivity and sharing of ideas and experiences.

There is also a dark side to living in nature. It may all seem easy and amazing, but growing your own food takes a lot of energy and can get monotonous.

And this is coming from someone who'd like to move closer to nature one day. My point is, nothing is only black or white.

I'm sorry you find yourself so at odds with your fellow men and women that you crave escape from them into "the nature". Maybe you really shouldn't be afforded a place in society if you can't respect it enough to see its merits.

would a human city not be a natural part of nature occuring?