Thanks for the tips fractal. Just got done reducing my aya so I have enough for a few weeks. I'm going out of town tomorrow which should help me break the first few days. I'm already dreading the migraines and sleepless nights to come (physical symtoms!).

I don't plan on quitting forever - I love mary jane, but sometimes we all need time apart. =/

oh cmon dude, i just really don't understand how this is the drugs fault. this says more about you than it does marijuana. your fooling yourself, in my not so humble opinion. who are you kidding? just because you can't quite weed, it's addictive?

im not trying to act like anyone is inferior, but only a 'weak mind' can't stop smoking weed. its not an insult, it's the truth that can liberate you, because you can change your mind. that gives you the power to reflect on your thoughts rather than thinking that you are some helpless victim. get a grip.

and as for opiates, you do make good points hyperspace about it having physically addictive properties, but like matukuul said its obviously inherently bad, and only a weak mind would choose to take something that is known to be physically addictive. if you disagree with that for the sake of making others feel better, then your not helping, a weak mind doesnt have to stay weak, its no insult, cause any addict can quite, though it will be hard, but you got yourself into it by being so 'weak'. i should pick a better word though its more like ignorant. yes thats a better word. if your not ignorant anymore then kudos but lets not act like someone whos doing heroin is in their right mind. the reason opiates have physical withdrawal symptoms is because the people who manifest addictions to them do so out of harsher reasons than say weed, thus earning a harder lesson to be learned from their ignorance, whatever that may be.. the list is infinite.

i could go on but i dont even care to elaborate because the message would fall on deaf ears as far as I'm concerned.. and suspend me all you want but i dont think ill be coming back here because as much as you guys are so much more intelligent and informed, and generally more enlightened than the average person in the real world, i think you guys are just still a little confused in your own way..

love and light.

Where did I say it's the drug's fault? I just like MJ...

one last thing since i didnt see this before my post and im gone, to clear up a few points you guys keep clinging to

were not saying there is no withdrawal, or at least im not, just that its in your head, and the result of hwo much you miss it, not body chemistry, and that only a weak mind succombs to those symptoms.

and your argument doesnt make sense, the way you quit makes you stronger mentally, though if you were as mental strong as possible you wouldn't have had the symptoms, thats not to say your not still very mentally strong, but had you not been a little weak you wouldnt not have had to realize you had a marijunaa problem in the first place, because there wouldnt have been a problem

You implied it when you said "who are you kidding?" asking people who don't think it's addictive. It's not addictive. There are people that like MJ just as much as u and can quit when they want to, so its you. not the mj. if you weren't trying to say that then i dont see what the point of your post was.

alright i need to get outta here.

Ugh.

"Although some people question the concept of marijuana dependence or addiction, diagnostic, epidemiological, laboratory, and clinical studies clearly indicate that the condition exists, is important, and causes harm (Budney, 2006; Budney and Hughes, 2006; Copeland, 2004; Roffman and Stephens, 2006)."

have you checked out any of the links yet? Man, you guys need to get it.

THE ONLY REASON ANY OF US ARE TALKING ABOUT PHYSICAL WITHDRAWLS IS BECAUSE THERE ARE STUDIES DONE THAT SUPPORT IT.

Get it yet?

You can argue all you want but your theory that it is just in our heads that we are experiencing withdrawls means nothing to me unless you can come up with something that is at least somewhat credible as to why scientists find downregulation of endogenous anandamide in the system after heavy use of cannabis? Please..can you at least adress that one question if you want to play the role you are playing in this discussion? Again..have you read any studies or are you just making up something that sounds nice?

"There are people that like MJ just as much as u and can quit when they want to, so its you. not the mj."

Well that sounds nice, but what kind of an explaination is that? My grandfather was an alcoholic and smoked for years and he decided to quit both one day and never looked back either. He had his family on the line and when it came time to stop he just stopped like that. Never even seen the guy smoke or drink, but I have heard horrific stories about how bad it was. Guess that means alcohol and nicotine cant possibly be addictive either huh?

When did this come to be about anyone saying this is the drugs fault? You are bending and perverting this discussion to your will it seems. Drugs dont make decisions, people do. It is not heroins fault that people get addicted to heroin either..it is the person who is responciple..that does not mean that heroin is not addictive or that withdrawl does not exist on a physical level.

You are trying to say here that if we are to say it is the persons fault and not blame cannabis than that means cannabis consumption cannot induce some physiological responces in the nervous system that take some time to adjust back to normal once a person stops consuming it. Do you not see how rediculous that sounds?

Your arguements here are boarderline incoherant and illogical. You dont really make much sense and still refuse to adress the real issue of anandamide downregulation, which makes your opinion here of little value. You are not really participating in any sort of dialogue you are just making post after post that are basically out of context with the track of the thread.

I just want to add one more thing to this discussion...perhaps this backs up both sides somewhat.

It's the psychological part of addiction that concerns me far more than the physical part.

For most drugs the actual physical symptoms last around 7 days. Drugs like pot that are fat soluble take a lot longer to clear the system....this is why the withdrawals are much less for pot because your body has a natural taper from them, but it's also why you still feel off a couple of weeks after giving up a daily habit...for some people this feeling off lasts up to a year. Go read the testimonials on the forum link I posted earlier in this thread for examples. I don't believe these people are making it up.

Our brains are hard wired for addiction...it is how they adapt and learn from new inputs. You feed your brain a drug like THC continuously and over time it sends signals that it needs to produce less of it's natural chemicals...in this case anandamide. Because of this when you quit there can be a period of re regulation in your brain.

I do have to agree that addiction is largely a psychologic process...but I'm not going to deny the actual physical side of the equation either. There is a period when your brain has to re-regulate...and there is some evidence that with certain drugs this re-regulation becomes less and less efficient over time. I've met people that haven't smoked pot in a decade...but because they abused it for 25 years they are stuck in permanent burnout mode. No they are not stupid people, but they openly admit that they have a fog around their thinking that wasn't once there. I experience this when I take breaks as well....actually this fog is what usually tells me it's time to take a break.

I personally believe it's time to start acknowledging the fact that the psychological addiction is indeed the biggest demon of any drug. We can get a person past the physical symptoms from any drug in a rehab situation...but the majority of people relapse....why? Because the psychological addiction is potentially way stronger than the physical side of the equation

BTW I'm not demonizing pot. I smoke it...well just about everyday. I do however take breaks from time to time and without a doubt I notice withdrawal symptoms from it..... Look I was one of the marijuana champions for a large part of my life. I wanted to believe what everyone said...that it's not addictive. It's a plant from God that is meant to heal... Well I do still believe it has potential to heal..and not just in the traditional view of a medicine. I believe it can heal on a psychological level as well. But anything we abuse will come back to haunt us. Our brains are made for it. How many of you have studied and studied and studied for an upcoming exam and then find yourself dreaming about it for a few days? Well that process is addiction in a small away. You have been feeding your brain a certain stimulus and it is responding by feeding it back to you. Our subconscious mind works as a mirror for the conscious mind. When this process involves a drug that causes physical changes to the brain it has real potential to become a debilitating addiction.

Want a different example? How many of you exercise regularly and then stop for a few day's. What happens? You feel lethargic and down about it. why? Well when you exercise you increase dopamins and other chemicals in your brain. Over time your brain adapts to this and regulates itself by producing less of these chemicals during your recovery periods....then when you stop going to the gym abruptly you find yourself feeling a little blue for a few day's. This is a physical sign of addiction. It's because your body isn't producing the same level of dopamine that it once did. Stop coffee for a few day's and you will experience a similar reaction.

The best thing we can all do to help end the war on drugs is to end ALL propaganda on drugs. We should seek the truth about how they interact with us and others. Let's don't trade 'refer madness' for 'pot is perfectly benign'. Let's bring down the house with cold hard facts. Marijuana can be addictive, but relative to almost all other drugs it's not as debilitating. It's not meth. it's not heroin. It's marijuana and it has it's own chemical profile and effects on the body. Let's take the high road against society and acknowledge what it is and what it is not. The case for legalization still stands in light of everything I've said. With prohibition you have all the problems of drug abuse and all the problems of prohibition. What more reason do we need than that to end prohibition?

Peace.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18691603

^there is another study dealing with the endo-cannabinoid system and heavy cannabis consumption.

Let's check the definition of dependant and addicted:

By this definition alone, you can see that you are contradicting yourself.


Definition of addiction:

So, if you smoke marijuana "in your spare time, when you're bored, before bed, when you're stressed out" that's precisely "being habitually or compulsively occupied with" the act of smoking marijuana.


Since you barely read the thread...

You probably missed the definition of Addiction posted by Dioxippus, so I'll repost it and give you an extra definition - Addicted to (since these were your words of choice, and you even underlined them on your post, as seen on the first quote of this post)


So, in the case of marijuana, if despite the enumerous links of scientifc studies that were given throughout this thread, you still have the idea that you can't get addicted to marijuana and that it's not "something psychologically or physically habit-forming.", than read the other part of the definition of addicted to, which says "devoted or given up to a practice or habit" which is what you said by "It's become what you do in your spare time, when you're bored, before bed, when you're stressed out".


For all of you that say "you can't get addicted to marijuana", just read the definitions... Chocolate, TV, tobacco, alcohol, meat, fish, food, fast cars, basket, football, stamps, cans, calendars, t-shirts, shoes, ties, brands, and the list goes on and on and on indefinitely, simply because anyone can get addicted to anything, literally anything in the world... So how can you possibly say that someone can't get addicted to marijuana?

Bingo!

This argument...well, "argument" about MJ needs to be cleared.

1.The hydroponic class of Marijuana

2. Authentic bush strains.

3. Strain genres.(sativa/indica)


Putting them in the same bucket is pointless and will never allow proper investigation.

It IS a very dangerous drug, it WAS also a very valuble resource.

Hydro, outdoor, indica, sativa...it doesn't matter, it can all be addictive. THC and CBDs are the same composition regardless of how/where you grow. The actual profile and percentages of them may change, but the actual structure/chemicals themselves don't. The potential for addiction is there regardless.

I know this is an older thread, but I thought I would bump it to give an update on how my struggle with addictions is going...

I'm currently practicing balance and moderation in my life- body, mind, and spirit, which has helped a lot. I'm taking a break from the marijuana until I feel I've stored up enough energy and achieved enough of a balance in my life to use it only occasionally.

I've also stopped the methadone because for me it was just replacing one crutch for another and was making me too lethargic.

The posts in this thread has been very insightful to me and I thank everyone who has contributed (except for a few rude and self-important remarks and personal attacks towards other members).

The following is part of my post from another thread in which I was offering advice to someone who was also struggling with addiction, as I thought it would be helpful for others and relevant to this discussion:

Wow! Really interesting thread (& some interesting drama to boot )
First of all, I super appreciate your follow up, Spartan. That sounds like a wonderful regime and I really love the 'gratitude list', which is something I do at times on a whim (but perhaps should try to do daily, as I notice the benefits).

I just wanted to add my 2 cents in regards to marijuana consumption (and participate instead of lurking as I am a newbie).

I started vaporising weed nightly about 7 years ago. One of those years was spent overseas, and I didn't consume mj at that time - so I'll round it off to 6 years. I don't vaporise to get couch-locked stoned, I vaporise less than half a cone and more so for the pace/rhythm of a light buzz. So I know I don't have the same experience as those of you who confess to 10+ years of heavy, daily use.

I am lucky that I do not suffer physical withdrawals when I stop vaporising. But this is probably due to the small volume I consume (as well as the method by which I do it). I know, however, that I have a habit. So by the definition I read earlier in this thread, I guess it's on the spectrum of an addiction.

I will crave a vaporise session if I am at home and the sun has gone down. In light of this information, I want to talk about fear of a problem vs. real problem.

I worry incessantly about almost everything. I have learnt to manage it better than I did when I was a kid (honestly thought the world would end if I didn't return my school library books, back then). However, I still worry about things that shouldn't be worried about.

So here lies my personal dilemma with marijuana. I worry about whether I should worry about the frequency by which I consume it. Haha! I know it is a non-effort for me (with no consequences) to stop (the longest I've stopped is probably 9 mths, because 3 mths of my aforementioned world trip were spent on the west coast of the USA... enough said). But I like weed. I hate smoking during the day (unless I am hiking/camping) but when I'm sober, I tend to think a lot and over analyse, so I dig a little vape at the end of the day so I can sit and watch the possums in my front yard, have a bath or watch a funny movie without thinking at a motorised pace. I find weed helps, but is not necessarily a requirement. I have not noticed any obvious residue effects during the day from my nightly vapes. I am almost finished my uni degree and have great time management as well as engagement with class material. I am not sure whether marijuana has an unknown adverse effect for me, as when I've not had it the only difference I really noticed was not ever being high!

I want to know if anyone here has what they'd consider a cooperative friendship with marijuana or whether anyone over thinks their relationship with it just as I do.

Sorry if this is considered 'hijacking' the topic. I just thought this thread was interesting and I have a lot of questions about the line between harmless habit and damaging addiction. I also want to add a disclaimer: None of this should be taken as a belittlement of serious marijuana addiction which I have seen first hand in others and fully believe in the physical/psychological ramifications of cannabis abuse. This is just my personal story about my own relationship with marijuana. Thanks

Well... My 2 cents...
As Many of you (or not) might know.... I used to be addicted to alcohol, weed, ecstacy, and cocaine for a Lil while. Until I took 5 grams of dry mushrooms and that's it... That cured my addiction...
I've been a few years sober thanks to That...
Dmt help a lot 2.

Thanks.

Peace & Love.

Firstly, good luck on your path to conquering your psyche. I've smoked high quality canabis for fifteen years now and through this time I've come up with some half decent techniques to limit consumption. I see them as weed conservation but they apply to the consumption rate directly.

A few years ago I was experiencing slight paranoia and unstructured thought patterns. I would leave the house to see a friend and end up getting coffee, repairing my subs, and goin to the carwash. Only to realize I forgot to see buddy... I love the way it affects my standard thought patterns but I think it was just too much. There IS such thing as too much of a good thing. One of the first things I did was get a weekly pill box. You know, the ones with Sun Mon Tue etc etc. Toss a gram in each day and your only gonna chew through an oz a month. It won't really help you stop completely but dialing it down over time can be so much more comfortable, especially considering smoking or cooking with a small amount occasionally really isn't that bad for you.

Over the years one of the most notably difficult periods was when I attempted to "quit" At the time I was in grade eleven and my grades were semi important to me. I enjoyed MJ so much, it provided a mini vacation whenever you need a little break, a different angle if your stuck on a problem. After about a week of rough mornings and restless nights I pretty much had it beat but I wasn't the carefree, relaxed and collected person I was used to. They say everything in moderation.

This worked really well for dialing down what my body was expecting and had quite the effect on my mind. I would roll pretty pinner dubes and put a filter on each end. Then you snip it in half and you got two baby dubes. The psycological trick works well for me and still has a calming effect. You just burn it like its your last bud a week before payday. I notice a slight irratability in the absence of MJ and can recognize whether my stomach or joints want some medicine, or if its a mental craving for a twenty minute vacation. Either way a puff or two usually kills the discomfort without getting right fried. I've even noticed before that being totally out can make me slightly irritable. Not the absence of smoking it, simply not poscessing it. And that finding a half dube or nice chunk of hash changes that right away, even if it just sits in my pipe unsmoked. Bizzare hey? Must be a mental dependancy what do you guys think?

If your hoping to totally cut out the weed, the associatations might be the kicker. After work, before dinner, and after dinner before bed are my top three. Take a look at what triggers you to wanna burn it might help you come up with a good strategy for yourself. Play around with breathing techs and try to replace your triggers with different habits. Glass of filtered water, or a walk in the fresh air can be turned into cope mechs. Similiar to what I'm trying with cigarettes. Sometimes if I'm wanting a smoke I'll slam some water, practice deep breathing, and bust out some pushups. Before I realize it I've distracted myself from smoking another one.

At the end of the day better control over our minds and bodies is . I know this isn't great quitting advice but when you hit the brakes the car has to slow down before it stops. Just don't slam on the brakes too fast or your head will bounce off the steering wheel and you'll end up with a serious buzz anyway

Goodluck friend! Hope this might help.