Keep in mind that I extracted from black caapi, which is often considered the most potent caapi. I’ve experimented with a number of caapi “colors” and had results as low as 0.3% and as high as 3%, so there’s quite a bit of variation in potency. An old, solid 1.5” diameter piece of black caapi may yield 3%, whereas young yellow caapi twigs may yield 0.5% or less. 50g of 0.3% caapi is 150mg alkaloids, which is a moderate dose.

My first aya experience was with 15g of the very same caapi I later extracted. It was quite intense. I can’t imagine what 50g of that caapi would have done, let alone 100g!

Most people seem to take around 200-300mgs extracted caapi alkaloids for their pharma experiences. However when a person takes 50g of caapi in ayahuasca they are essentially consuming almost 1g of alkaloids. I'm basing this off of Gibrans claim of 1.3g alkaloids to 64g caapi reported in this thread.

https://www.dmt-nexus.me...aspx?g=posts&t=17029

Based on his numbers that would put a standard 50g aya experience right around the 1g of harmalas. That's a large difference. I wonder if we took 800mg - 1000mgs of extracted harmalas if it would be more like aya?

The problem here is, like I have said over and over and over again..what is making up that 1 gram of material is caapi? there is something like 9 active alkaloids in caapi..there are other beta carbolines in caapi that are active but might be way less potent than harmine, harmaline and THH..I have personally drank 100g of caapi and I can tell you that if you do a rue extraction and ingest 1g, or even 500mg concidering the harmaline content, the rue will be more powerful. Maybe black caapi is stronger..but honestly I have never ever heard anyone else that had had black vine THAT strong..minxx told that all the black caapi she had was not any more potent than yellow vine. So who knows what is really going on here. If I ate a gram of harmine I would be far gone..I cant imagine how 100g of caapi can compare in any way to 1 full gram of harmine, harmaline and THH in combination..until the cappi extractions are analyzed it will be hard to really tell what is going on here. I for one would like to know what is all being extracted from caapi..

...Maybe black caapi is stronger..but honestly I have never ever heard anyone else that had had black vine THAT strong..minxx told that all the black caapi she had was not any more potent than yellow vine.

My Ceilo extraction was close to 2%...if that adds anything to this discussion.


This is actually a very easy process to test. One needs 100g of bark. 50g will be used in a traditional brew. After thew brew the remaining alks will be extracted. The other 50g will just be extracted. The yields can be compared to determine exactly how many mgs of alkaloids were ingested.

I don't know when I'll have a chance to do this...but it seems like something worthwhile to do. IMO.

1) Reading the study from Callaway "decoctions" page 2 chart shows that most brews contained from 150 to 200mg of both harmine and thh and from none to 20mg harmaline.

According to the chart, yes, and in hypothetical practice, yes. Caapi is the "main course" of the meal...as I read a Shaman call it. Jonathan Ott goes into great detail in his book "Ayahuasca Analogues" about the effects of harmine from 120mg to 160mg as well, He was a good responder at 160mg harmine. THH is a very weak maoi, plays a different role in the caapi. This amount (400mg combined) is still non-nauseating/dizzying for many until harmaline levels go above approximately 10mg or so (in combination with the above), or the harmine levels start to go above 230mg or so in..all in estimated guessing as everyone different.

The hallucinatory trance consists of three successive stages of hallucinations. You will know stage one when your sense of darkness is interrupted by bright flickers of light. These phosphene-based sensations first appear as colored dots, specks, stars or simple flowers. They give way to undulating lines, circles, grids, simple forms, abstract designs and multi-shaped geometrical patterns. Relax and enjoy a closed-eye contemplation of the floating, ever-changing pattern of these little images. In stage two the abstract designs of stage one give way to slowly moving masses of shapes and colors. Larger shapes take form in a slowly developing pattern of hallucinatory images. These images acquire a personal character as your unconscious mind projects your fears and desires upon the shapes and colors of your visions. Do not be alarmed if the horizon seems to collapse in a bright flash of light or if your hallucinations turn into frightening animals.

Huge birds of prey, large jaguars and snakes are common hallucinations with harmala alkaloids. Observe and enjoy the bright colored imagery as it changes continually in a flowing transformation of dream-like sequences. Hours later, in stage three, this panorama of vivid fantasy fades into the slow movement of shapes and colors. These images disappear, in turn, as the last stage of the hallucinatory trance wears off. If your harmala experiment is part of a group experience, you may be surprised by the unusual similarity in the content of each other's hallucinations. The harmala alkaloids tend to produce collective hallucinations--especially archetypal imagery--among group members. This access to "collective unconscious" is such an extraordinary effect that the harmala alkaloids have earned the name "telepathines". These unusual alkaloids are present naturally in harmala, the Hallucinogenic Herb of the American Southwest.

(with 5 g Peganum harmala seeds, ground, in capsules) "At about 1:45 tinnitus was obvious. At 2:00 precise movements were problematical and nystagmus was noticeable. Mild nausea and diarrhea, but no vomiting. I was sensitive to light and sound, and retired to a dark room. Hallucinations were intense, but only with the eyes closed. They consisted, initially, of a wide variety of geometrical patterns in dark colors, getting more intense as time went on. They disappeared when the eyes were opened. Although the loose bowels and nausea were pretty constant through the first part of the trip, I was not afraid. It was as if the "fear circuits" in the brain had been turned off. The geometric shapes evolved into more concrete images, peoples faces, movies of all sorts playing at high speed, and animal presences such as snakes. It was like vivid and intense dreaming except that I remembered most of it afterwards. In another hour things became manageable and I could go out in public. My sex drive was pleasantly enhanced, and I slept very well."

I wanted to start this thread to discuss peoples harmala only journies..no DMT, mushrooms or other admixtures here..I know that there are alot of people here that are into harmalas. I really really love them..in all forms..I love caapi tea, rue tea and extracted harmalas. For me harmalas are visionary and transformative psychedelics all by themselves. Lower doses bring on a calm and euphoric medative state that is sort of dreamy and empathic. Larger doses I lay down in bed and get sucked into visionary dream sequences and astral sort or journies where I seem to meet with realistic people in other places etc that often have some sort of relevance to me and my life. There is a wonderful glow that accompanies the experience afterwords..it is like being rebooted.

The leaves were Ayahuasca’s “helpers,” I was told, and their purpose was to “brighten and clarify” the visions. The vine is like a cave, and the leaf is like a torch you use to see what is inside the cave. The vine is like a book, and the leaf is like the candle you use to read the book.8 The vine is like a snowy television set, and the leaf helps to tune in the picture. There was a subtle attitude that the need for strong leaf was the sign of a beginner: An experienced ayahuasquero could see the visions even in low light.

Ayahuasca vine is notvisionary in the same way as DMT. Visions from vine-only brews are shadowy, monochromatic, like silhouettes, or curling smoke, or clouds moving across the night sky. It is because their visions are usually monochromatic that vines are classified by the color of vision they produce: white, black, blue, red (in my experience, dark maroon). Snakes, the most common vision on Ayahuasca, are considered the manifest spirit of the vine.9 Vine visions can be hard to see; in fact, the “visions” may not be visual at all, but auditory or somatic or intuitive. But the vine carries the content of the message, the teaching, and the insight. The leaf helps illuminate the content, but the teachings are credited to the vine. Vine visions are “frequently associated with writing, to a code that is present in visions…or in the ‘books’ where the spirits keep the secrets of the forest.” (Calavia Saez 2011:135). The vine is The Teacher, The Healer, The Guide. The purpose of drinking Ayahuasca is to receive the message the vine imparts. This is why it is the vine, not the leaf, that is classified by the type of vision it gives. “For them the vine is, in truth, a living guide, a friend, a paternal authority” (Weiskopf 2005:104).

As to how the THH altered the experience -> I find rue extract+DMT to be very similar to mushrooms I found the THH added to the rue+DMT to shift the experience to a state much closer to that provided by LSD. It was more clear, more energetic, more focused, and when confusion struck it was definitely more "acid-like".

A while back I read a very good explanation of the different effects of Harmalas that has stuck with me. I believe it was 69ron that said: ‘Harmine is the Coffee of the harmalas & Harmaline is the Weed and when it comes to THH (tetrahydroharmine) you have The Light.'

Whilst very similar in molecular structure, THH has a completely different personality to Harmine & Harmaline. Calling it The Light of the harmalas is very appropriate. IMHO, it is the Holy Grail of The Harmalas. I have found Harmine very, very helpful in Meditation & Yoga. It energises your Light Body and allows you to see your Chakras & Auric fields; very helpful in a biofeedback sorta way Pleased, Personally, Harmaline is too heavy & stony for me but I do respect its power and personality, kinda like a big shaggy & lovable dog.

While we are all aware of the MAOI effects of the Harmalas I would like to suggest additional effects I have noted that our current version of scientific enquiry is ill prepared to explain. For the scientists out there please bear with me, I have found a dramatic increase in Energetic Vibration from the direct use of Harmalas in any form by any means of ingestion. This is as true for drinking Caapi tea as it is for bong hitting rue seeds.

This Vibration can be felt as light headedness or slight dizziness accompanied by feelings of well being and connectedness. It indicates a move up the etheric spiral towards your higher self. Sometimes accompanied by a slight nausea, that goes away as your complementary bodies move into alignment. It is the same energetic feeling you get from doing Kundalini exercises or the tingly afterglow of orgasm. By cultivating this Vibration and slowly allowing it to increase over time you will find you are more psychic, intuitive, compassionate & can bend time at will. Yes, you read it right, Bend Time At Will.

THH has the ability to raise your vibration in a most powerful, yet subtle way. It brings a crystalline prismy texture to spice and adds a super clear watery dimension to Aya, like looking down through 10meters of shimmering Caribbean Sea on clear blue day. It brings a dimension of pure light to the entheogenic experience and encourages entities & intelligences of only the Highest Order. If one is not accustomed to perceiving these experiences with a spiritual perspective most of the nuances & subtleties THH brings on are overlooked and remain unseen and one would better enjoy Harmaline as a house painter chooses a roller over a brush, its about preference & choice.

However, in a broad (as yet unpublished) survey of Banisteriopsis caapi, Psychotria viridis and subsequent teas, which included phytochemical analyses of all, plus subjective ratings of the teas, a strong correlation was found with teas that contained high amounts of thh and not dmt! This rating was from a large body of experienced users (regular União do Vegetal members who had consumed ayahuasca for 10+ years).