I have some questions regarding DMT (Fumarate):

1. Is 100mg dmt fumarate and 200mg harmine a decent dose/ratio?
2. Should/can I drop both, or take them sublingually?
3. Am I supposed to take the harmine 30-60min before the dmt?
4. Other ways to administer the DMT (fumarate) without using MAOI? Taking it nasally sounds kind of painful?

Imo, 100mg to 200mg harmine is a good starting place for pharma. You may wish to lower your dmt weight if its really pure stuff, and you don't want too intense of a journey. 200mg harmine should inhibit mao for most people, and for me thats a good dose.

I would take the 200mg harmine orally, as well with the dmt fumarate. Anecdotal reports from nexians tell that while harmalas work great sublingually dmt fumarate does not work as well. If you take the harmalas sublingually and the dmt orally i have doubts it would work at all due to the mao in your gut not being inhibited enough or at all.

I would take the harmine 20 min before the dmt, dissolved in acidic water, then take your dmt fumarate dissolved in water. This will speed up absorbtion and avoid any issues with gel caps being caught in throat or not fully kicking in before you take your dmt.

You can inject or snort the fumarates, but in my expirence with snorting, it works but not as well as orally and has the most disgusting taste dripping down your throat and eventually down into your stomach anyways. Where it will be destroyed unless you have eaten maois.

Injecting is only an option if you can verify the safety and purity of your product and am comfortable trying a potentially very intense trip. Straussman, who did the study described in the spirit molecule reported some very deep journeys that his patients experienced with doses of dmt fumarate injected -without maois.

Would this be safe to use as MAOi?
<link removed, no supplier names in the Welcome Area>

Yes swim used to use fv harmalas back in the day, but in my experience FV has issues with the quality of some of their products. I cannot honestly ingest anything from them without wondering if its actually whats labeled on the vial. Its much better and cheaper in my opinion to buy some rue seeds and learn how to extract them yourselves.

There are also other vendors selling extracted harmalas, one of which also has very good deals on rue seeds. I would recommend finding this vendor (hint look in the supplier section specifically the cheap rue seeds thread) and purchasing some of their extracted harmalas along with buying some rue seeds to do your own extraction. This way, you can get much more bang for your buck, and your using a vendor that has not had reported and confirmed quality control issues in the past.

I think the whole pharma dosage things is very complicated. I have had the above dose of 100mg spice/200mg harmine and so far only experimented up to 120mg spice. I have still not got to where I want to go after several experiments. I will probably go for 200–250mg harmaline or mixed harmalas for my next journey.

Hard and fast rules don’t seem to apply for pharma to me though. Some seem to have very intense experiences with 40 or 50mg spice, others need 200mg and up for a full experience I think the thing is to start reasonably low and work out what is right for you.

Thanks for all the responses.

I'm most likely going with 200/200 (harmine/dmt fumarate) as recommended in the first post. What kind of trip duration am I looking at with this oral dose?

Let us know how that goes will ya? 200mg for me, would be a massive overdose of dmt. I would not recommend anyone going over 75mg of dmt fumarate on their first go. Work your way up slowly to your Goldilocks zone and it will be much more comfortable imo.

With that said, my first pharma was with an unknown weight of dmt acetate that was an extremely visionary experience my guess would be upwards of 150mg w/ 4g rue capped, and i only wish i could go back and start over working my way up. Not to say it was a bad trip, i just wish i could have had a better introduction to the pharma before going balls deep.

Do not take 200mg dmt fumarate for first time. Start with 50mg, maybe 100max.. for some people thats already a lot. Its better to be prudent, you can always try again next time, or even take more the same day with some harmala boost (and also you can load up your smokign device with a bit of spice in case you dont get where you want).

I only have enough harmine for one shot, and AFAIK I can't smoke fumarate(?). How accurate is this text?

What's the worst case scenario if I dose more than I should? (e.g. 150 instead of 100). From what I've read there's nothing that can prepare you anyway? 700-1000mg sounds pretty bad/irresponsible and I would never do anything like that, but what's being described in 200mg should be doable?

also, my first question; for how long will the trip last?

What is the source of that text? IMO, how you describe the affects of something is directly related to your own personal experience and body. Maybe that person weights 2x as much as you, maybe they have extensive history with psychedelics and are less sensitive to dmt's affects, maybe they have cross tolerance from mescaline or other psychedelics, diet also plays a role in the bio-efficacy of drugs, and finally everyone's mao operates differently so how you metabolize these compounds could be radically different that the accepted dosage range.

The advice about not going over 100mg is really good solid advice. Overdosing yourself on something the first time you ever try it can leave psychological triggers that will affect later trips of any dose. Kind of like how some people are averse to particular types of alcohol simply because they've had bad experiences with that kind that they remember, but not alcohol in general. Believe me, too strong is not fun at all, and you want a good experience your first time so you can build off that, isn't that better than risking a potentially bad trip that wastes even MORE dmt? Also, how do you know that you will like the affects of pharma if you have never tried it, wouldn't it be better to try a low dose that's uncomfortable vs. a high dose that will be much worse?

It's up to you though, but please do let us know how it goes regardless.

good luck.

I see that text being passed around on various forums, can't seem to find the original source. You have convinced me I should dose lower. I'll try something around 60. I've tried to smoke it (unsuccessfully, 50mg) and only got mild visuals (everything appeared with vector art style) so I'm not sure where my tolerance level is.

I have 200mg of harmine total. What if I take 100mg harmine + 60mg fumarate, could I later do 100mg harmine and (e.g.) 100mg fumarate if I figure out I need a higher dose? or should I still consume the 200mg of harmine for the first dose? Does the harmine dose need to reflect the DMT dose? (ratio-wise)

also, i keep asking this question because I've heard so much different answers on it; For how long, estimated, does the trip (oral dose) last compared to a smokeable dose? are we talking an hour or several hours? minutes?


thanks for all the replies so far. it's very appreciated

I would definitely go with 200mg harmine. Mao must be sufficiently inhibited for any dose, and if you had harmaline, i would say yes, but harmine requires at least 150mg i think to inhibit mao. For the price that the vendor you mentioned sells harmine/harmaline i would just invest in a few grams if you have the $ on hand.

But remember, for price of buying 1-2grams of purified harmalas, you could get a kg of rue seeds that will yield 20+ grams of pure harmalas, it just requires effort, $10 in materials, and some patience/thoughtfulness to do a proper a/b/manske. You could even start small with 50g of rue, and get at least 1g of alkaloids if you are a good extractor of the loyds.

The amount of time the trip will last in my experience is co-related to the amount of harmalas you take. Its seems you can extend trips by making sure very little of the dmt is metabolized by mao. This requires re-doses of harmalas, or one large initial dose. SWIM has had 1-2hr intense mini trips with lower amounts of harmalas, compared to 6hr journeys from the same amount of dmt, but more harmalas. I would guesstimate that 200mg with be around 4hrs, but cannot speculate very well due to metabolic differences.

This is from tihkal for harmaline, its different dosages from harmine, but this illustrates how more mao can make trips stronger/longer lasting. It also shows how a threshold dose of harmaline with less dmt was more intense than a previous attempt with more dmt and less harmine.

(with 20 mg harmaline and 55 mg DMT)

"There was nothing for three hours, and then I became aware of some eyes-closed hypnogogic abstractions. The peak was slightly longer with adrenergic push somewhat more intense than what the mild psychic effects would suggest. The come-down was equally drawn out. It all was certainly less intense than when the DMT is smoked."

(with 50 mg harmaline, 60 mg DMT [20 min])

"No effects were noted except for perhaps a brief suggestion of some increase in motor activity."

(with 80 mg harmaline, 40 mg DMT [60 min])

"There was quite a bit of visual activity. The onset was subtle, but the drop-off was quick

(with 100 mg harmaline, 120 mg DMT [10 min])

"It was not until 80 minutes into the experiment that it became clear that CNS effects were occurring. Initially this was felt as clarity of detail of everything around me followed by slight time distortion. There was no loss of reality but closed eye imagery developed rapidly, later becoming present even with eyes open even though less intense. Images were initially very colorful consisting of sheets of patterns infinitely repeated with some gentle waviness, somewhat like looking through a kaleidoscope. Deliberate shifting of attention was possible at all times and although gait was mildly affected it was possible to perform any given task with concentration. There was no loss of identity or reality. Pupillary movements did not change the area of focus of my 'sight', which was surprising. Images could be willfully dismissed as desired with eyes open. Music became another world with headphones on, and 'Hearts of Space' albums easily became voyages which could be interrupted at any desired point with eyes opening. The effects began to recede at the two and a half hour point. The bright colors and patterns had shifted to less intense scenery in a calm peaceful way. At no time was there any noticeable amphetamine jaw-clenching, hyperactivity, or restlessness. The entire episode had ended at the four hour point leaving an intense feeling of happiness and amazement. Sleep was easy at five hours, and yet for the subsequent 30 hours my concentration was noticeably impaired. There were no motor problems or incoordination, yet short-term memory was significantly disrupted, requiring deliberate concentration on minor things. At 38 hours my mental condition seemed back to normal. The only criticism I might make of this experience was that there seemed to be none of the insight that I had experienced with TMA-2. This seems, however, to be a very psychologically safe experience for almost anyone and was very enjoyable."

(with 150 mg harmaline, 35 mg DMT [20 minutes])

"Initial effects were noted at 70 minutes, characterized by feelings of mild intoxication followed by significant visual distortions and inability to focus thoughts. By two hours, colored patterning was present with eyes-closed but the images flashed through consciousness so quickly that they could not be considered or analyzed. There as a pronounced sensation of being cold that was difficult to change, despite a very warm heating blanket. An interesting finding was that I was unable to visually "picture" some desired scene. In other words, I could verbally say that I wanted to visualize a forest, or a horse, or a tree, but none of these items could be brought forward. The rapid flood of thoughts quickly became exhausting and there was a strong desire to avoid all stimuli, including music, TV, or any other sounds. The effects began declining at the three-hour point and were essentially gone at five hours. I am beginning to reach the conclusion that DMT has few redeeming qualities. So far, it cannot compare with the insight and clarity of thought which occur with some of the phenethylamines and phenylisopropylamines. This potent activity at the 35 milligram level suggests that the 150 milligrams harmaline dose is highly effective as an MAO blocker."

(with 150 mg harmaline, 80 mg DMT [20 min])

"At just about an hour into it there was a rapid onset intoxication with some staggers and difficult walking. During the next half hour, there were closed-eye visuals along with nausea and a severe depression. I turned on all the lights in the room for security, although I do not like bright lights. I considered calling a friend on the phone, but then I realized that nothing could reassure me at this point. Intellectually I knew that I was safe, but psychologically there was overwhelming loss of self worth and a feeling of despair. This was a sever ego-smashing experience which might have been diagnosed as psychosis if a psychiatrist had been present. The effects lasted longer than anticipated, with a gradual return to normality at the fifth hour, and an hour later I slept. Despite the negative experience, the next day I realized that I had viewed many aspects of my life with extraordinary clarity and insight, and as a result of this experience I intend to try to change several of these personal flaws."

just to be certain; can I use sprite (the coca cola company soda) for this? or should I use something like grapefruit juice?

thanks for the trip reports above, very helpful.

the plan is:
1. 200mg harmine mixed in sprite or grapefruit juice
2. drink
3. 25 minutes later mix 60mg dmt fumarate with a glass of tap water
4. drink the dmt fumarate

sounds good?

Any acidic or ph neutral liquid will work. I've even heard that using something with sugar in it (like sprite) will speed up absorption. SWIM usually just dissolves his harmalas/dmt in minimal amounts of tap water in shot glasses, then shoots them chasing with juice or water.

Works every time.

swim's experience:
I tried 60-70mg dmt with 200mg harmine. I had a pretty ...weird experience (perhaps not by dmt standards). After drinking the fumarate I started having negative thoughts which came from absolutely nowhere. I started to get the standard "what the fuck did i do now"-feeling that tends to preceed a bad trip.

It started out terrible with nausea and this weird bass-like sound that sort of "pushed" my body into the ground (felt like my body weight was +400kg). This bass-like sound ("BRRRRRRRRR!!!" ) synchronized with the body load that was pushing me down. I cannot describe how powerful that feeling was.

I started breathing extremely heavily (without being aware of it) and my eyes were running. After a while I started vomiting. It was almost as if I was in a dream. It didn't feel anything like reality. At one point i was lying in fetal position with my head positioned inside a bucket I was vomiting into. I was basically blind too, I couldn't see anything (just blurry) and my eyes were closing automatically. It was extremely difficult to keep my eyes open. I moved to get a blanket as I was freezing like I had the worst fever ever. When I moved to get it I was "warping" as I walked. Instead of walking I was "teleporting" 5-10 feet every second and at a point I was worried I might "teleport" into the wall.

After the vomiting passed I started feeling better. After some time I started to feel really, really good. The next 4-5 hours were some of the happiest hours I've had in my life. Even my best times with MDMA was unmatched by this incredible euphoria. It reminded me a lot about how it was to be a child. I had absolutely no worries, no negative feelings and felt like I had "resetted" my life perspective. This part is difficult to explain, but it feels as if I have a more realistic/normal view on my own problems. It's as if you accumulate this warped perspective on life if you let yourself get too affected by your own issues. Problems appear more problematic than they really are.

I wonder if I would still have the euphoria if hadn't vomited. It almost felt as if it was an important part of the "cleansing/purging" process shamans talk about. Maybe it's just random... I don't know.

some things I don't understand;
* apparently DMT gives two shits about your set and setting. how could I go from nightmare to euphoria in such a short time?
* i had absolutely no visuals. I could perhaps glimmer a kaleidoscopic-ish pattern at times, but it was very weak. A friend (same dose, higher body weight) relived an experience from his childhood. Another friend had intense visuals (beautiful landscapes, fractals) and visuals that lasted throughout the entire experience.

was it just chance that I didn't get any visuals? or do I perhaps have a higher tolerance? the experience was intense as fuck (body load-wise), but no visuals at all.


edit: i mistyped dose. it was 60-70mg fumarate with 200mg harmine