Hmm. This seems interesting. Count me in

Hey, this is my first post, I've been interested in DMT for a while and found this place last night. Anyway, I haven't actually experienced DMT yet, but I'd like to join. I dunno if that's agreeable or not.

Also, I'm not sure the government/media/public will take you very seriously if you're all talking in 3rd person constantly.

I think allowing people to join the Church as partial members before their entheogenic initiation is important, but they would not be full members until they completed 1-3 entheogenc "spirit-walks" or "vision-quests". Please understand that the Jurema Way is not my church... Mine is the called "Temple Earth- The Ethnobotanical Church of Humanity" which you may also join if you wish.

This needs to be a real church, a real community, a real Temple! Here's a link to my Temple thread.



I very much agree with that.

I also think holding meetings and services is very important.

I fully support this idea and am grateful to have discovered this forum and community

Enlist me as a friend of the nexus way as I havn't broke through yet.

Everyone's welcome! The sacrament is a central part of the faith, but we're all about tolerance so you're welcome to join before you've partaken. One day, when you feel ready, maybe we'll see you in hyperspace.

Coatl- I don't think the thread title can be edited? Correct me if I'm wrong. [EDIT: oh yes, done it]

The third-person thing is because we all hear these stories from these crazy friends we have like Swim whose methods of worship are oppressed by the government so we have to protect their identities- ayawaska is legal in many countries but extracted DMT is not unfortunately.

As a member of the DMT-nexus, i can't help but noticing that there already IS a DMT religion, although not officially recognized yet and not claimed as religion by everybody. But many people on this forum, i think at least 20 %, seems to believe there is a link between aliens and DMT. There is consensus among them that aliens brought the DMT molecule to this planet as a means of communication with them.
I think it would be worth a try bringing the 'alien-religion' to court and see if it qualifies. This site and probably many other sources could be used as evidence to support the claim that indeed many people DO believe these things, and that the religious freedom thing would be used only as a vehicle for the legal use of DMT.

The way i see it this is a genuine religion that i admit, has evolved out of an illegal practice. But i don't think that this can be a judicial argument against it's acceptance, since there's no legal document anywhere that says that a genuine religion could not have a root in illegal activity's of any kind. Jesus himself participated (if he existed, there are theories that he in fact was julius ceasar) in what the romans considered an illegal activity, wich was revolting against roman occupation of the eastern mediteranean coastal region.

On the other hand could the fact that apparently many DMT users have come to such believes, be used to portray the molecule as a clearly very dangerous substance of wich the use innevetably will lead to paranoïd schizofrenia and dellusions fitting this diagnose.

It would be a most interesting debate, though.

I think if such a religion is to be enacted it should be open to many beliefs and not associated with any of the alien, elve theories. There are many individuals fascinated by the DMT experience including Christians, scientists, recovering addicts, atheists and more. If anything the alien connection may be discouraging to some individuals. While I personally do not believe in it I respect your right to and admit that neither of us truly now what is going on. All the more reason to scientifically test and explore this amazing experience. The religion should be open to all beliefs and dedicated to the scientific investigation of the experience. We should not get caught up in the dogmas of past religions putting all of ones faith blindly into beliefs that have no evidence. We have much to learn about the brain and the mind through DMT. I think the religion is a great idea and maybe a website and some literature should be put into place. I also agree that no members should sell the sacrament, this will only draw unwanted and negitive attention. We should really do this. Anything I can do to help let me know.

bufoman i like what you say about being dedicated to the scientific investigation of the experience..it adds a nice research vibe to it..that i feel this site also embodies

Thank you. I am glad to know others feel the same way. Science is a very useful tool that can be used to explore this amazing experience. Additionally the DMT experience has a lot to offer science as well.

I wouldn't want to exclude anybody. I just wanted to make the point that, while some people like ohayoco and coatl seem eager to take initiative's to sort of legitimize the use of spice (if they realy would go as far as taking it to court is another thing), while technically (if that's the apropriate term) for many people there already IS a 'legitimate' 'religious' context in wich they use the spice.
In coatl's thread i already mentioned that i find 'religious freedom' biased in favor of philosophical systems with religious traits at the cost of any other philosophical system, and that this bias is totally random and therefore ridiculous. Like there would be a judicial argument for determining that views on life that include supreme beings would be more suitable to derive meaning from, then other views. Religious freedom is essentialy based on the fact that there can be NO such arguments, and certainly not in the judicial domain.

Great point.

Polytrip, firstly I want to reiterate that this is indeed a genuine attempt to protect my foaf and others' spiritual use of DMT... the belief systems were already there before this religion started for my foaf and I expect everyone else. The Jurema Way is for solidarity- to have our DMT sacrament legitimised in the eyes of the law if the worst happens and one of us gets caught by the 'oppressors' of our sacrament.

I agree that new religious beliefs such as the alien ones certainly have grown out of DMT use, and these beliefs are of course welcome because the faith (perhaps the first faith to ever do so?) leaves 'belief' up to the individual as long as it fits with the ethical code. However, there simply aren't enough DMT smokers in the world to have lots of separate movements for our different beliefs, which is why we should embrace this idea of a tolerant religion that sets an ethical code to live life by, but places no restraint on spiritual belief- leaving this to grow out of use of the sacrament.

After all, what is an 'alien'? Some people say Jesus was a spaceman. An 'alien' is just 'not one of us'. I mean, Americans even call foreigners aliens, making loudspeaker announcements at US airports sound a bit intergalactic! My point is, that whether these entities are aliens, elves, gods, angels, ghosts, ancestors, our own cells, atoms or subatomic particles, Freudian aspects of personality or Jungian aspects of personality, or even just the mathematical workings of the brain... it doesn't REALLY matter, does it?

What DOES matter is whether or not your beliefs have a positive effect on your life and the lives of those around you. If they don't, then reject them, because they are of no use. If they do, then embrace them. I personally don't care what these entities are that my foaf sees when he smokes (although he enjoys formulating his belief system to explain it), all he cares about is that it seems to transform him into a better person and brings a spiritual wholeness to his being that makes him very happy. That is, in my eyes, all a faith needs to do.

I think it's quite refreshing to have a religion like this that doesn't impose scientifically unprovable dogma onto it's practitioners. And rare, if not unique. A religion of spiritual tolerance!

Saying that, I'd encourage these alien-worshippers to start their own specific religion if that's what they want to do, they can still be members of The Jurema Way if they agree to its one ethical code. Scientology is of course the most famous alien religion :/ Beliefs can be very dangerous when people are not free to question them, hence my wariness of dogma. Doubt is the philosopher/scientist's greatest tool.

well said ohayoco...

i find that my belief system is constantly changing as i experience life..and i often realize that a belief that i have had is not useful to me anymore...so then when a 'better' one comes along..i pick it up..and this changes my whole perspective of reality..which is exciting and it shows me the power i do have over my life and the way i experience it

Certificate is on my to-do-list. I think I'll get a quick 'temporary' one done first so we can get things going, then hopefully jazz it up more one day.

but that doesnt mean that my belief system is any better than anybody else..its just the one that i use at that certain moment...and this is where i see tolerance fitting it...if we all know that we are all on our own journeys..and that we all are on different levels...than who can tell somebody else what they are supposed to believe

SWIM feels that spice allows you to evaluate all of your belief systems and then you have the choice to change them or not...

One can become a ordained minister from the universal life church. This is legitimate and it doesn't matter what your beliefs are. It may be worth checking out. You can even get certificates and other minister items.
http://www.themonastery.org/

I really need to set up my site, pick a few "preist" and start mailing out membership cards.

I'm going to say $33 for 1 year of membership. (For my church, not Jumera Way)

Ohayoco I'd humbly ask you support non-violence and make it known that the killing of human beings is oppisite your religions, philosophical and moral beliefs.

If you'd like me to buzz off and post in my own thread about this, I don't mind.

jorkest makes me chuckle!!!
wait...
jorkest makes SWIM chuckle!!!

That counts us out then- smoking DMT and the act of brewing ayawaska is generally illegal. Good site for researching how these things work though so thanks for the link. We don't really need ministers anyway, because there's no hierarchy.

Coatl- don't worry that stuff's already covered by the code