DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 96 Joined: 27-Aug-2011 Last visit: 10-Oct-2012
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Question is below, ignore the first part if you want.
(How I did the d-limonene tek: I followed Ron69s method using 150gs mhrb blender shredded, even though I used the exact amount of water, he noted it shouldn't be watery and it was indeed watery. So I evaporated some of the water in an oven until it was damp, no excess water was visible. Added the limonene which turned brown, I think instantly, mixed for 5-10 minutes and following some advice left it for a day. D-limo's all brown poured it off, added vinegar (twice as much because the D-limo was brown and the vinegar was brown and I needed to see a clear separation), mixed and waited, saw bark particles so filtered again and again, chose to experiment and evaporate D-limo with vinegar, note D-limoonene is not edible in fact it's moderately toxic says the health and safety data sheets online. I think that data should be posted in the tek since technically D-limonene isn't food safe. So I evaporated the mix in an oven at 50c until it was a brown goo.)
(I dosed the goo for Ayahuasca and had a bad reaction, throat almost closed up which I attribute to the d-limonene. Thinking about it, there should have been very little D-limonene in that goo if any at all since it did separate from the vinegar and turned back into a yellow liquid, and most if not all did evaporate. The reaction then could have come from the vinegar. I took 13g of that goo after 4g of syrian rue seeds. But no dmt effects where felt. Also I have mixed 5g of goo in a glass of vinegar and have yet to see a d-limonene separation.)
EDITED
So I got the D-limonene vinegar mix brown goo, 5-10g, and put it in a small jar and filled it 3/5 with IPA. I was hoping a separation would occur and it has. I'm not exactly sure how much D-limo is in that goo. So the top layer is near clear yellowish liquid, below is a more thick looking layer which starts yellow then quickly turns brown. So I was wondering if dmt is soluble in IPA from dmt acetate and if could use the clear liquid for changa. Or similarly what happens when you mix IPA or acetone with dmt acetae?
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1955 Joined: 24-Jul-2010 Last visit: 29-Oct-2019
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afaik dmt-salts are not soluble in IPA or acetone. They should crash out / remain insoluble at the bottom of your jar. in fact this is how I try to clean my dmt-salts of limo... I'm asuming the brown stuff at the bottom of your jar is your still impure dmt-salt. maybe dmt acetate is brownish on its own, I don't know, I've only worked with fumarates. Buon viso a cattivo gioco! --- The Open Hyperspace Traveler Handbook - A handbook for the safe and responsible use of entheogens. --- mushroom-grow-help ::: energy conserving caapi extraction
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 14191 Joined: 19-Feb-2008 Last visit: 28-Nov-2024 Location: Jungle
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I think you dont understand what you are doing well enough.. Geines wrote:
How I did the d-limonene tek: I followed Ron69s method using 150gs mhrb blender shredded, even though I used the exact amount of water, he noted it shouldn't be watery and it was indeed watery
You dont mention adding base, did you just forgot to mention or did you forgot to add the base? Geines wrote:
So I evaporated some of the water in an oven until it was damp, no excess water was visible
At what temperature? Maybe you just lost some alkaloids there. Did you add the whole mix in the oven, or did you pour out some water and reduce that and then threw back some of the reduced water into the mix, or? Geines wrote:
D-limo's all brown poured it off, added vinegar (twice as much because the D-limo was brown and the vinegar was brown and I needed to see a clear separation), mixed and waited, saw bark particles so filtered again and again
Saw bark particles? Where? When you separate your limo from the bark, there shouldnt be any bark particles, if there is, let it stand and decant away and/or filter, BEFORE adding the vinegar. Geines wrote:
chose to experiment and evaporate D-limo with vinegar
You shouldnt evaporate limonene, it doesnt evaporate clean, plus your alkaloids will be in the vinegar when you salt, not in the limonene. Please make sure you understand what you are doing before you 'choose to experiment". Geines wrote:
D-limoonene is not edible in fact it's moderately toxic
Thats not true, d-limonene is taken as food supplement, its as part of essential oils which many people consume in small amounts (a few drops) Geines wrote:
which I found out after having a reaction when ingested [i](throat almost closed up and I know the tek doesn't say eat d-limonene but with the other two ingredients being edible I figured it was too
Why are you consuming orally your d-limo used in an extraction?! Plus, its all about quantities, a few drops is ok, hopefully you arent taking big sips of your limo Geines wrote:
I took 13g of that goo after 4g of syrian rue seeds
13g ?!?! Was this your first try?! Have you any idea how reckless it is to consume that (potential) amount of DMT?! What if it was real dmt, you have any idea what eating 13g of actual DMT would do to you? Did you know oral dmt dosage is around 100mg, or in other words 100 (!!!!!) times less than the amount you consumed? How did you take the rue seeds, did you make a tea? Did you eat them two together, or? Where is your bark from? Geines wrote:
So I got the D-limonene vinegar mix brown goo, 5-10g, and put it in a small jar and filled it 3/5 with IPA.
Where did you get this idea from? Again seems you are experimenting without understanding what youre doing. Mescaline acetate is somewhat soluble in IPA and acetone, thats why in 69ron's tek it is washed with MEK, not with IPA and acetone.. I dont know about DMT but it could be its slightly soluble. Just because one salt isnt soluble in a solvent, doesnt mean another isnt (so in that case, just because dmt fumarate isnt soluble in it doesnt mean acetate isnt) Your DMT might be spread out in all these different parts. If I were you I would redissolve everything you have in vinegar, base with sodium carbonate, dry in low in oven (say 50c), pull with IPA and evap that onto changa if you want. And please, for your sake and for our sanity in helping make sense of confusing questions, try to read more about what youre doing and understanding the processes before improvising things. Plus the amount you took makes me seriously worried youre going to hurt yourself soon enough if you dont take more care (and potentially hurt the community with the negative attention it can bring too) I hope I dont sound too harsh, I mean this with good intentions.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 96 Joined: 27-Aug-2011 Last visit: 10-Oct-2012
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Oh, well I guess I could assume the top layer is excess IPA, and the bottom layer is the goo liquefied. The small yellowy part could be d-limonene, I'm not sure. As I said in the brackets part I mixed the acetate with vinegar and no d-limonene is separating, which is confusing.
In another container I've mixed the acetate with IPA and B.caapi leaves so when it's evaporated and I get a chance to smoke it I'll see if it's active.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 14191 Joined: 19-Feb-2008 Last visit: 28-Nov-2024 Location: Jungle
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I think you're assuming too much. IPA mixes with limonene, as it does with water. God knows what you have there. Read the FAQ and teks and start again, this time following instructions and making sure you understand what you are doing.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1955 Joined: 24-Jul-2010 Last visit: 29-Oct-2019
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Geines wrote:Oh, well I guess I could assume the top layer is excess IPA, and the bottom layer is the goo liquefied. The small yellowy part could be d-limonene, I'm not sure. As I said in the brackets part I mixed the acetate with vinegar and no d-limonene is separating, which is confusing.
In another container I've mixed the acetate with IPA and B.caapi leaves so when it's evaporated and I get a chance to smoke it I'll see if it's active. You don't really want to smoke dmt-salts. what you want to smoke is dmt-freebase. I'm not sure what you have as your final product, but as endlessness has indicated you might want to restart and get the process right first before you try ingesting any of your unknown product. I know it can be frustrating if you mess up these things, but it's better to be thorough and careful than to ingest something that could be harmful to your body. Please take some time to figure out the chemistry of an extraction and perform the steps with care, so you get a good final product. If you have any questions after reading the extraction teks just post them here, but make sure you do so clearly. Working with bullet-points or well formulated text will help us help you. cheers Buon viso a cattivo gioco! --- The Open Hyperspace Traveler Handbook - A handbook for the safe and responsible use of entheogens. --- mushroom-grow-help ::: energy conserving caapi extraction
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 96 Joined: 27-Aug-2011 Last visit: 10-Oct-2012
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endlessness wrote:I think you dont understand what you are doing well enough..
1.You dont mention adding base, did you just forgot to mention or did you forgot to add the base?
2.At what temperature? Maybe you just lost some alkaloids there. Did you add the whole mix in the oven, or did you pour out some water and reduce that and then threw back some of the reduced water into the mix, or?
3.Saw bark particles? Where? When you separate your limo from the bark, there shouldnt be any bark particles, if there is, let it stand and decant away and/or filter, BEFORE adding the vinegar.
4.You shouldnt evaporate limonene, it doesnt evaporate clean, plus your alkaloids will be in the vinegar when you salt, not in the limonene. Please make sure you understand what you are doing before you 'choose to experiment".
5.Thats not true, d-limonene is taken as food supplement, its as part of essential oils which many people consume in small amounts (a few drops)
6.Why are you consuming orally your d-limo used in an extraction?! Plus, its all about quantities, a few drops is ok, hopefully you arent taking big sips of your limo
7.13g ?!?! Was this your first try?! Have you any idea how reckless it is to consume that (potential) amount of DMT?! What if it was real dmt, you have any idea what eating 13g of actual DMT would do to you? Did you know oral dmt dosage is around 100mg, or in other words 100 (!!!!!) times less than the amount you consumed?
8.How did you take the rue seeds, did you make a tea? Did you eat them two together, or? Where is your bark from?
9.Where did you get this idea from? Again seems you are experimenting without understanding what youre doing. Mescaline acetate is somewhat soluble in IPA and acetone, thats why in 69ron's tek it is washed with MEK, not with IPA and acetone.. I dont know about DMT but it could be its slightly soluble. Just because one salt isnt soluble in a solvent, doesnt mean another isnt (so in that case, just because dmt fumarate isnt soluble in it doesnt mean acetate isnt) Your DMT might be spread out in all these different parts.
If I were you I would redissolve everything you have in vinegar, base with sodium carbonate, dry in low in oven (say 50c), pull with IPA and evap that onto changa if you want. And please, for your sake and for our sanity in helping make sense of confusing questions, try to read more about what youre doing and understanding the processes before improvising things. Plus the amount you took makes me seriously worried youre going to hurt yourself soon enough if you dont take more care (and potentially hurt the community with the negative attention it can bring too)
I hope I dont sound too harsh, I mean this with good intentions. I took the liberty of numbering your questions. You're right I don't understand it properly, well I do theoretically but I mess up one way or another. 1. I was trying to make the explanation as short as possible but I probably did forget to mention it. I used the base. Raja Chuna to be exact. 95% calcium hydroxide so I added in a lil extra. 2. I put it all in. Probably at 150c or less periodically opening and closing the oven door. 3. At first I only saw brown liquid. Only after adding and mixing vinegar did noticeable particles fall to the bottom. Though I should of filtered it properly in the first place. 4. I read you could evap limo to get leftover dmt, hence the experiment. 5. True. But data sheets says otherwise. 6. I had hoped it was all evap'd. 7. Indeed that was reckless. But it was a table spoon full. 8. I took them periodically in an hour. The bark was from mhuk ebay vendor. 9. I was seeing what would happen. I know how to make changa, but I specifically put it in a jar to see if a reaction would occur. Unfortunately I don't have sodium carbonate, though I'll look into it if my changa fails. Acetate is much weaker than freebase so I've read, and I did say I used twice as much vinegar which would leave more residue. I'm actually evaping equally amounts of vinegar and limo separately and so far only the vinegar is leaving residue. But yes you're right, having an intense trip or almost dying are both scary. This stuff needs to be taken seriously. I was thinking I should go to the hospital but I might trip, but if I die and the materials are found the drug would be blamed. What a conundrum huh.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1955 Joined: 24-Jul-2010 Last visit: 29-Oct-2019
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Geines wrote:
But yes you're right, having an intense trip or almost dying are both scary. This stuff needs to be taken seriously. I was thinking I should go to the hospital but I might trip, but if I die and the materials are found the drug would be blamed. What a conundrum huh.
... please be more careful. it is called "responsible use" for a reason. Please don't be reckless with your life, your health and the people around you. You as an individual have an effect on the things around you, and the universe in total. Reckless behavior can lead to things you do not wish for yourself or others. So please, spend a little time on considerations and be more informed when endeavoring in these (or any) activities. Buon viso a cattivo gioco! --- The Open Hyperspace Traveler Handbook - A handbook for the safe and responsible use of entheogens. --- mushroom-grow-help ::: energy conserving caapi extraction
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 14191 Joined: 19-Feb-2008 Last visit: 28-Nov-2024 Location: Jungle
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150c would have vaporized your freebased dmt, that was a big mistake (but also what probably saved your ass, because you took that much dmt acetate. Please next time you do it right, take 100mg or so)
where is your mimosa from btw?
You can use calcium hydroxide for that freebasing process I said instead of sodium carbonate.
And yes as enoon said, be careful next time
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 96 Joined: 27-Aug-2011 Last visit: 10-Oct-2012
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@ Enoon - Yes you're right. I never intended any negative consequences to happen. Sometimes unexpected things happen.
So clarification is needed on the limonene tek with mhrb. Otherwise I'll stick with the easier STB tek, I only have a problem with precipitation, everything else is normal. I tried this tek with cactus and the d-limonene separated normally.
1. What does d-limonene pull from mhrb?
2. What does vinegar pull from d-limonene?
3. What is left over from evaporated d-limonene?
4. What is left over from evaporated vinegar?
5. What dosage of d-limonene is dangerous?
6. What dosage of vinegar is dangerous?
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 96 Joined: 27-Aug-2011 Last visit: 10-Oct-2012
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@endlessness - Even if the dmt is still in the bark? I read the melting point was higher. I've kept the bark in a plastic bag for a week or so, are you thinking it's still useful?
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1955 Joined: 24-Jul-2010 Last visit: 29-Oct-2019
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1. limo pulls from MHRB that was previously treated with a strong base or an A/B step - dmt freebase 2. if limo contains dmt-freebase mixing it with vinegar will convert the dmt-freebase to dmt-acetate which is not soluble in limo and will crash out/sink to the bottom 3. I don't know, I don't think limonene can be evaporated at temperatures in which dmt will still be stable, so it's not done in the context of extractions 4. depends on what kind of vinegar you have. I use only vinegar essence which is clean. it leaves no residue afaik. if you have red-wine vinegar you will have some natural coloring in it that will stay behind etc. 5. I would try not to consume any of it if I had the choice. trace amounts as found in extracted dmt should not be a problem though. I mean you can eat orange peels too and not die. Just don't drink the stuff... 6. You use vinegar in food, no? Drinking vinegar will probably irritate your stomach but I don't know how much you'd have to ingest for it to become hazardous. anyway in the process of a regular extraction you wouldn't be tempted to drink either limo or vinegar... just follow the steps and you should get a decent result. Try to get a feel for what is happening on a chemical level. Not in formulas or anything but just the general gist of it. Buon viso a cattivo gioco! --- The Open Hyperspace Traveler Handbook - A handbook for the safe and responsible use of entheogens. --- mushroom-grow-help ::: energy conserving caapi extraction
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 14191 Joined: 19-Feb-2008 Last visit: 28-Nov-2024 Location: Jungle
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Geines wrote:@endlessness - Even if the dmt is still in the bark? I read the melting point was higher. I've kept the bark in a plastic bag for a week or so, are you thinking it's still useful? If you added a base, you changed the dmt from natural salt form, which is reasonably heat stable, to freebase, which will vaporize at something over 100c.... What bark did you keep, part of bark which you didnt extract, or the bark which you had alreayd put in the oven ? If its "fresh" bark you didnt extract from yet, then yeah its def still good.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1369 Joined: 22-Jan-2010 Last visit: 07-Mar-2014
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Geines, your post is frightening and bizarre. What were you thinking taking 13g of what you thought was dmt? Really, what were you thinking? Have you ever read to take anywhere near that much? 13g of dmt with 4g of syrian rue is a lethal dosage. I don't understand why you would consume d-limonene either. What the heck. I have never heard of someone trying to take 13g of dmt and drinking their solvent. Be safe please.
Anyway, the part about adding the base and limonene and mixing it with vinegar is correct, but I don't think you understand from there. Once you add and mix vinegar with limonene, the dmt will all be in the vinegar as dmt-acetate, not in the limonene. I'm not sure if you got that from your post. But dmt-acetate remains an oily liquid when evaporated down. This is why people use fumaric acid saturated water or acetone or IPA instead of vinegar. If you used FA saturated water, then your product would have reduced to a solid when dried and you would have known how much you potentially taking.
Or, if you had used FA saturated acetone, then dmt-fumarate would have precipitated as a solid right out of the acetone (acetone and IPA form a separate layer from the limonene). As others have said, trying to clean your acetate with ipa or acetone may not work because dmt-acetate may be soluble in acetone or ipa.
1. What does d-limonene pull from mhrb? from basified liquid, limonene pulls full range alkaloids and some plant oils
2. What does vinegar pull from d-limonene? full range alkaloids and some plant oils
3. What is left over from evaporated d-limonene? nothing, if you salted the limonene with vinegar. But limonene doesn't evaporate cleanly anyway.
4. What is left over from evaporated vinegar? full range alkaloids with some plant oils
5. What dosage of d-limonene is dangerous? Not certain, but you're not supposed to take more than a few drops.
6. What dosage of vinegar is dangerous?[/quote] ???? Why would you drink vinegar? A liter maybe? I don't think vinegar is dangerous, but a lot of it will upset the stomach. If you drink too much, you'd probably just throw up.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 96 Joined: 27-Aug-2011 Last visit: 10-Oct-2012
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@ Enoon - Thanks. Actually I think I shall thank both of you for walking me through this  The vinegar I used was malt vinegar which leaves residue. @ Endlessness - Well that bark was basified and heated. I didn't think it had any use. I'll throw away most of what I've made so far and go back to looking for a pure naphtha. I have just enough limo for one more try and I don't know what else to use it for. I got enough calcium hydroxide to last a life time. So I'll do it one last time. Tell me this please, how watery should the bark be in rons tek? Should I use the exact amount of water he says to use, and perceive his comment as only a guideline?
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 1369 Joined: 22-Jan-2010 Last visit: 07-Mar-2014
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So did you actually drink the limonene, or did you drink the vinegar layer, which you suspected had some limonene in it?
Better luck next time.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 96 Joined: 27-Aug-2011 Last visit: 10-Oct-2012
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Apoc wrote:I don't understand why you would consume d-limonene either. What the heck. I have never heard of someone trying to take 13g of dmt and drinking their solvent. I didn't drink the solvent. What gave you that idea? I evaporated it, but with the vinegar. I understand the dmt would be in the vinegar. So you're saying I could use IPA with d-limonene instead of vinegar? That's the first time I've heard about this. How much IPA should I use for 150gs?
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 14191 Joined: 19-Feb-2008 Last visit: 28-Nov-2024 Location: Jungle
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No thats not what he's saying, if you add IPA to limonene youll just have a mix of limonene and IPA.
As for giving the idea of drinking solvent, you said yoursef you tried it and had your throat close down.
As for what you asked me: 69ron's tek is for mescaline/cactus anyways, not for DMT. His comments are just guidelines, yes.. Read Q21Q21's tek and Amor Fati's tek as well as the FAQ to get a better idea on whats going on in each step. Dont do something if you dont know what you are doing that for (for example mixing ipa with d-limonene).
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 96 Joined: 27-Aug-2011 Last visit: 10-Oct-2012
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So what is he saying?
I edited my original post to clear up any misconceptions. Ron and others had said the tek could be used for dmt. He said it on this and at least one other website. Others have had success with it, I on the other hand just failed.
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DMT-Nexus member
Posts: 14191 Joined: 19-Feb-2008 Last visit: 28-Nov-2024 Location: Jungle
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you need fumaric acid, make a saturated solution by dissolving as much of it as you can in a certain quantity of IPA (like, say, 100ml), then you add that to the limonene. Just adding pure IPA wont do anything..
Read BLAB tek for more instructions. Except BLAB uses acqueous lye solution instead of the calcium hydroxide paste, but after you separate your limonene from the bark mixture, you can follow BLAB instructions.
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